"Face It Tiger...", Mary Jane Watson/Parker Appreciation

[John Ossie]

It was nice seeing her in ASM again. Not going to get my hopes up regarding any romance between her and Peter but it's nice to see that it looks like she'll play a bigger part in it now than she had done by the time I dropped the series.

[Confuzzled]

We'll have to disagree there. Dan often deconstructed her later stages of character development, critiquing stories like Parallel Lives

That's not necessarily disrespecting her character though. And in the actual comics, he did reference Parallel Lives (through Peter mentioning MJ's knowledge of his secret identity even before "Day 1").

Parallel Lives should be removed from canon.

Oh hell no!

[Ursalink]

Previews can be really tricky, but also the comics themselves. Either way, I truly hope for "One More Day" to be undone and restore the Spider-Marriage.
However, I can't stop but thinking about the consequences it could have:

+ Everybody learning again Spider-Man's secret identity? I hope not, but at least he could finally explain about Octopus' actions when he stole his identity. Still, I could accept Otto becoming "Superior Spider-Man" with a clone body.
+ Then again, with MJ around, she could have stopped Doc Ock's scheme of stealing Spider-Man/Peter Parker's life.
+ One of the key moments would be Spider-Island. Maybe without One More Day, MJ's spider-powers stayed stable and kept them. (No more Damsel in Distress).
+ There's a chance for Parker Industries to have survived. I mean, if MJ was able to lead Stark Industries, I'm pretty sure she would be able to do the same thing for Parker Industries. Surely, MJ would be even a better CEO than Peter.
+ The debut of Silk would have been hilarious in this reality, where Peter remained married. Could he have controlled himself better against Silk's "charms"?
+ Spider-Verse would be interestingly changed if Mary Jane kept her Spider-Powers from Spider-Island. I believe she could have saved some of the spiders who died in this arc.
+ The Clone Conspiracy could be another interesting changed story.

Well, what do you think?

[Miles To Go]

That's not necessarily disrespecting her character though.

Oh there was plenty of that going on too.

[John Ossie]

Previews can be really tricky, but also the comics themselves. Either way, I truly hope for "One More Day" to be undone and restore the Spider-Marriage.
However, I can't stop but thinking about the consequences it could have:

+ Everybody learning again Spider-Man's secret identity? I hope not, but at least he could finally explain about Octopus' actions when he stole his identity. Still, I could accept Otto becoming "Superior Spider-Man" with a clone body.
+ Then again, with MJ around, she could have stopped Doc Ock's scheme of stealing Spider-Man/Peter Parker's life.
+ One of the key moments would be Spider-Island. Maybe without One More Day, MJ's spider-powers stayed stable and kept them. (No more Damsel in Distress).
+ There's a chance for Parker Industries to have survived. I mean, if MJ was able to lead Stark Industries, I'm pretty sure she would be able to do the same thing for Parker Industries. Surely, MJ would be even a better CEO than Peter.
+ The debut of Silk would have been hilarious in this reality, where Peter remained married. Could he have controlled himself better against Silk's "charms"?
+ Spider-Verse would be interestingly changed if Mary Jane kept her Spider-Powers from Spider-Island. I believe she could have saved some of the spiders who died in this arc.
+ The Clone Conspiracy could be another interesting changed story.

Well, what do you think?

* Not interested personally in ''Superior Spider-Man'' so Otto becoming ''Superior Spider-Man'' doesn't interest me in the slightest personally speaking.
* As for the MJ Spider-Powers thing, I'd be interested in that if that ever happened, even if it was more likely to be in an alternate reality type.
* Personally, I'm glad that P.I was rid off. MJ as a CEO? Not sure on that idea either tbh.
* As stupid as I found the ''Spider-Pheromones'' or whatever it was supposed to be called, in a reality where Peter and MJ are married I guess it could've had some comedic effect if done right.
* Whether MJ had Spider-Powers at the time of Spider-Verse or not wouldn't have made a difference to the fate of the Spiders who died IMO as I think they would've died either way.
* Clone Conspiracy...maybe, maybe.

Anyhow, Ursalink that's just a brief summary of my thoughts of your ideas.

[Frontier]

Nick Spencer answers some questions from the Crawl Space, here's what he said about Mary Jane



http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/2...awlspace-love/

I wonder if the reason he didn't talk about Mary Jane as much before the first issue was to hide the surprise?

Also surprised to see him being enthusiastic and willing to be interviewed by the Crawlspace. Talk about your "Fresh Start."

I like what I'm hearing. Dan Slott definitely respected MJ as a character and her place in the lore, but I don't think he would have gone so far as to say he's a fan of her like Spencer here.

Eh...I think there were a few times where Slott used her well but overall I'm not sure I'd say he really respected MJ and her place in the lore, otherwise he wouldn't have written her how he did during some parts of his run.

[Celgress]

....Eh...I think there were a few times where Slott used her well but overall I'm not sure I'd say he really respected MJ and her place in the lore, otherwise he wouldn't have written her how he did during some parts of his run.

Maybe Slott wasn't allowed to write her in a "positive light" because of the Editorial Mandate? It reminds me of the King situation with BatCat. We have no idea what went on behind the scenes, in either case. However, I seriously doubt either writer exercised unfettered control over these iconic properties.

[John Ossie]

Maybe Slott wasn't allowed to write her in a "positive light" because of the Editorial Mandate? It reminds me of the King situation with BatCat. We have no idea what went on behind the scenes, in either case. However, I seriously doubt either writer exercised unfettered control over these iconic properties.

I'm off the impression that she's not his favourite, won't go as far as to say he hates the character or disrespects her but I don't get the impression he's a fan either, course I could be completely and utterly wrong about that (wouldn't be the first time, nor the last LOL) but anyway, that's the impression I get, rightly or wrongly.

You'll get no argument from me regarding behind the scenes however as I completely agree with what you say about not knowing what goes on behind the scenes.

[Spidercide]

Lois and Clark were on-again/off-again. The New 52 era was off-again.

I said this same thing during Slott's run when I said Peter/MJ were on-again/off-again. Some people didn't believe me when I said they would be on-again someday. And I'm finding it ironic when other people don't believe me when I say they will someday be off-again.

(And I love Peter/MJ!)

You are taking different versions of the characters and amalgamating them. New 52 wasn't off again, it was an outlier. It's like saying Hal Jordan has fluctuated between being good and bad cos that's just how it is. No. It was just that one time.

Peter and MJ weren't on again and off again in Slott's run. They were in a constant state of off with teases of getting on that never happened cos Slott gotta Slott.

I'm not saying they won't be off again someday.

I'm saying we aren't doomed to the damn cycle forever and ever.

Someday this bullshit cycle with comics will die when they realize it's losing them money whereas every other goddam comic book publisher in the country/world and every other story medium just lets **** go forward and run it's course.

[Spidercide]

Seems this is a good week to be an MJ fan, she's shown back up in the newspaper strip today as well, giving Peter advise over the phone

RYV had 2 tstrong MJ scenes too!

[Spidercide]

Oh yeah, that makes sense.



I like what I'm hearing. Dan Slott definitely respected MJ as a character and her place in the lore, but I don't think he would have gone so far as to say he's a fan of her like Spencer here.

No no he 100% did not respect her as a character.

This is the guy who did more than one issue where she was at risk of being sexually violated.

This is the guy who deliberately made her look stupid merely because she didn't understand science.

This is the guy who claimed she was anti-Marvel.

This is the guy who gave us multiple contradicting explanations for why she and Peter wasn't together none of which were in character for her.

This is the guy who contributed to a story in Superior #31 where MJ victim blames Peter and does so by directly contradicting ASM #122's ending

This is the guy who claimed DeFalco's character development in the 1980s was 'reductive' to her character.

If Slott respects MJ its within the context of her silver age presentation not the character she evolved into.

He barely ever wrote her correctly.

[Spidercide]

Parallel Lives should be removed from canon.

No it shouldn't.

Parallel Lives gave MJ and her relationship with Peter immense development by having her know who he was.

MJ became the one woman Peter could never lie to and thus she was the only one unlike Gwen or Felicia who saw him for who he really was.

Not Spider-Man. Not Peter Parker. Both and the man between them.

That's who she fell in love with.

When she closed that door in ASM #122 it was everything your ead in 1973 but so much more because she was choosing to do that in the immediate wake of seeing what her own fate could be if she chose to commit to a relationship with this man.

And she did it anyway because MJ is the most badass Normal this side of Lois Lane.

It also meant that she protected his greatest secret, good training for her future with him and in Ron Frenz's words a profound gift of loyalty.

So no.

Just because you don't like it changing the stories as you experiences them PL shouldn't be decanonized.

It's a well written additive story that gives back immeasurably more than it takes away.

What?


You wanna remove Hobgoblin Lives from canon too because it did the exact same thing

[Tuck]

It was a bad retcon. Spider-Man has too many connected threads for a non-chosen-one-type character. Piling this on top is just goofy.

And she did it anyway because MJ is the most badass Normal this side of Lois Lane.

She's a 2D CMYK doodle.

[Frontier]

It was a bad retcon. Spider-Man has too many connected threads for a non-chosen-one-type character. Piling this on top is just goofy.

I think in the context of Peter's and Mary Jane's history and relationship it worked fine.

I don't think it really made Peter any kind of "chosen-one type" and it's not like Mary Jane knowing made that much of a difference in terms of the events that happened, just shed a different light on her mental state and thoughts back then.

[Spidercide]

It was a bad retcon. Spider-Man has too many connected threads for a non-chosen-one-type character. Piling this on top is just goofy.





She's a 2D CMYK doodle.

Yeah no. Betty Brant didn’t break it off with Peter. Re-read ASM ’30. Peter dumps her because she wanted a normal guy and he wasn’t it. They also weren’t brother/sister after that they dated again in the 1970s and there was romantic tension between them after that too such as in the 1990s.

You’ve totally failed to explain why it’s a bad retcon beyond ‘there are too many connected threads’.

Like dude...she was next door. She was literally next door. AF #15 stated Aunt May was with the Watsons and as far as silver age was concerned MJ lived next door.

Its totally plausible and again developed her character and their relationship to an immense degree (that you just handwaved).

Character development in line with the central themes of the series>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>Too many coincidences.

****...circa 1989 we hadn’t even GOTTEN too many retcons to make things neat and overly interconnected yet.

p.s. technically speaking according to JMS and Slott Peter is a Chosen One character. And Stan Lee’s Spider-Man talks about ‘destiny’ a Hell of a lot.


p.p.s. character development is goofy.

Okay well...I’ll be over here enjoying all of Rowlings goofiness in Harry Potter then