"Face It Tiger...", Mary Jane Watson/Parker Appreciation

[Vaegrin]

Dan Slott, from Twitter:

You want what you want.
I get it.
You go to the restaurant.
You order your favorite meal.
& they changed the recipe.
I get the frustration.

That is really quite well said. Thank you for understanding, Mr. Slott.

[Miles To Go]

More like they closed the bulk of your favourite chains except in small avenues that you really need to zero in on the road map for.

You like that they still serve it, but you wish the chain was as big as it used to be.

[Kevinroc]

And even people who were critical before now miss the meal.

(All these food metaphors are making me hungry.)

[Vortex85]

Dan Slott, from Twitter:



That is really quite well said. Thank you for understanding, Mr. Slott.

Satisfactory to a small degree.

Then consider what is essentially the Lois Lane of Marvel has become a background character of little relevance and how Marvel is ok with letting this happen. It seems they would want to promote her more and let her shine instead of pushing her out of the spotlight and making her a "has been" just because Peter can't be married anymore.

[Vortex85]

MJ's legacy and iconic status she holds should be honored, protected, promoted, and passed from generation to generation. A shame to see one of the most important female characters in comics be cast aside for an agenda to try to make new relationships in Spider-man seem more important.

(And in the end, none WILL be important as they are all meant to not last on purpose)

[WeirdSpider]

The past stories are ALWAYS there for me. And I enjoy rereading them too!)

The thing is for us Marriage fans we really can't go back and reread the stories of the marriage years and still enjoy them the same way. I just finished rereading the Clone Saga and the whole time I kept thinking "Is this still canon", and "Is this still canon"?
According to Joe Quesada he feels that within the context of One More Day/Bland New Day that Mary Jane's pregnancy didn't happen. This opens up a whole new set of worms. If the pregnancy didn't happen than did other parts of the Clone Saga not happen as well. Did Peter still lose his powers? Did him and MJ still move to portland?

To us marriage fans it's not just erasing the marriage(which by the way feels very 1984ish), it's the complete throwing out of canon. Why even bother having canon if it can be thrown away at a moment's notice?

[Kevinroc]

I get why people make the Lois Lane comparison, but I don't think the Spider-Man and Superman comparison quite works.

I'd probably compare Spider-Man more to Batman. At least in terms of their love life. They've both had a number of love interests, and their most famous didn't debut alongside them.

Julie Madison, who was introduced a few issues after Batman's debut (Batman first appeared in Detective Comics #27, Julie in Detective Comics #31, and served as Batman's first love interest.

Vicki Vale (Batman #49) showed up a few years later and is a little more famous than Julie Madison.

But the most famous Batman love interest is Catwoman, who debuted in Batman #1.

The other significant love interest is Talia al Ghul, who debuted in Detective Comics #411. (And I know there are other Batman love interests, but... meh... I don't want to sit around all day naming Batman love interests that only the most hardcore will remember.)

Conversely, Mary Jane's first mention was in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1) #15. Peter didn't actually meet her until ASM (Vol. 1) #42. But, I gotta be honest, that ASM #15 mention is definitely one of those coincidences that does not get talked about enough.

[Vaegrin]

The thing is for us Marriage fans we really can't go back and reread the stories of the marriage years and still enjoy them the same way.

True, it is extremely hard to read those stories without thinking about what happened later. It's not just the question of what's canon and what's not. Whenever you read the old stories where Peter tells MJ how much he needs her, where MJ proves that she is strong enough to stand by Peter no matter how hard it might be, where Peter is shown to be more of a hero because MJ is in his life, or where MJ chooses to love Peter for the content of his character no matter the risks--it's hard not to read those stories in the context of the past ten years and One More Day, and the implication that none of it really meant all that much after all.

[Miles To Go]

the implication that none of it really meant all that much after all.

..Which is why you have the Mephisto thing still hanging over the character in MJ's OMD speech and as recent as the last two years...to remind us that any OOC interactions Peter and MJ have had is due to him.

[Starrius]

I get why people make the Lois Lane comparison, but I don't think the Spider-Man and Superman comparison quite works.

I'd probably compare Spider-Man more to Batman. At least in terms of their love life. They've both had a number of love interests, and their most famous didn't debut alongside them.

Julie Madison, who was introduced a few issues after Batman's debut (Batman first appeared in Detective Comics #27, Julie in Detective Comics #31, and served as Batman's first love interest.

Vicki Vale (Batman #49) showed up a few years later and is a little more famous than Julie Madison.

But the most famous Batman love interest is Catwoman, who debuted in Batman #1.

The other significant love interest is Talia al Ghul, who debuted in Detective Comics #411. (And I know there are other Batman love interests, but... meh... I don't want to sit around all day naming Batman love interests that only the most hardcore will remember.)

Conversely, Mary Jane's first mention was in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1) #15. Peter didn't actually meet her until ASM (Vol. 1) #42. But, I gotta be honest, that ASM #15 mention is definitely one of those coincidences that does not get talked about enough.

I think they were referring to iconic status of the love interest

Lois Lane is the iconic love interest of Superman
Mary Jane is the iconic love interest of Spider-Man

[Vortex85]

I get why people make the Lois Lane comparison, but I don't think the Spider-Man and Superman comparison quite works.

I'd probably compare Spider-Man more to Batman. At least in terms of their love life. They've both had a number of love interests, and their most famous didn't debut alongside them.

Julie Madison, who was introduced a few issues after Batman's debut (Batman first appeared in Detective Comics #27, Julie in Detective Comics #31, and served as Batman's first love interest.

Vicki Vale (Batman #49) showed up a few years later and is a little more famous than Julie Madison.

But the most famous Batman love interest is Catwoman, who debuted in Batman #1.

The other significant love interest is Talia al Ghul, who debuted in Detective Comics #411. (And I know there are other Batman love interests, but... meh... I don't want to sit around all day naming Batman love interests that only the most hardcore will remember.)

Conversely, Mary Jane's first mention was in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1) #15. Peter didn't actually meet her until ASM (Vol. 1) #42. But, I gotta be honest, that ASM #15 mention is definitely one of those coincidences that does not get talked about enough.

It's easier to equate MJ with Lois than anyone from Batman. Also Batman wasn't married for 20 years in comics. I know Spidey isn't Superman, but MJ did hold a status comparable to Lois and I don't think Marvel should give that up. If anything they should try to out do Lois with MJ to have a strong iconic non powered female in association with their company.

[Starrius]

It's easier to equate MJ with Lois than anyone from Batman. Also Batman wasn't married for 20 years in comics. I know Spidey isn't Superman, but MJ did hold a status comparable to Lois and I don't think Marvel should give that up. If anything they should try to out do Lois with MJ to have a strong iconic non powered female in association with their company.

I agree

also

Peter and Mary Jane got married before Clark and Lois did.

Peter and Mary Jane got married in 1987.
Clark and Lois got married in 1996.

[Kevinroc]

I think they were referring to iconic love interest

Lois Lane is the iconic love interest of Superman
Mary Jane is the iconic love interest of Spider-Man

Lois showed up in Action Comics #1. She made her debut alongside Superman.

Mary Jane didn't show up until years later. Her first mention was ASM (Vol. 1) #15. Peter (and readers) didn't meet her until ASM (Vol. 1) #42.

I think the Batman comparison might be more apt. Since his most famous love interest (Catwoman) didn't debut alongside him. And we can often go for long periods of time without seeing them interact. But what is one of the biggest comic stories of the year? A Batman/Catwoman story.

It's easier to equate MJ with Lois than anyone from Batman. Also Batman wasn't married for 20 years in comics. I know Spidey isn't Superman, but MJ did hold a status comparable to Lois and I don't think Marvel should give that up. If anything they should try to out do Lois with MJ to have a strong iconic non powered female in association with their company.

None of these comparisons work on a 1 to 1 basis. But Batman is the biggest franchise in DC's arsenal. Orders on Batman are currently higher than that of ASM. And one of the biggest comic stories of the year revolves around Batman/Catwoman.

[Dan Slott]

To us marriage fans it's not just erasing the marriage(which by the way feels very 1984ish), it's the complete throwing out of canon. Why even bother having canon if it can be thrown away at a moment's notice?

The most important thing you can do about this is complain about it for 10 more years. I think that'd be a very good use of time. It really would increase everyone's enjoyment-- not just of Spider-Man-- but of the Spider-Man fan community as well. Just constant rays of sunshine for a decade or more. Daily, online deposits of "positivity" that build up and up and up and make every online interaction that much better. I think you should do 5 tumblrs about it. And 8 blogs. Really.

[Miles To Go]

...And people wonder why we only get one ASM a month sometimes....


Ah, just kidding. Probably more complex reasons for that than just popping in for a chat.

I am one of those who have basked in the few rays of sunshine we've gotten marriage wise in the last ten years. Thanks very much for that, and I hope you're enjoying the RYV title as just a reader too.