"Face It Tiger...", Mary Jane Watson/Parker Appreciation

[Mister Mets]

I think the problem with that, especially when it comes to love interests, is that the character really isn't written to address what the audience may need or want, but to their specifications. Often it seems that the love interest isn't written as a way to create an interesting story first, but instead under the auspices of being a better match for the protagonist than other love interests. The story seems to come second. In regards to Spider-Man, it seems the primary focus of the creators when coming up with this new love interest is to make her into a more appropriate match rather than focusing on creating a compelling narrative or arc. The problem this causes is that while the character may have some unique qualities, the arc they go through is the same arc that several characters went through before- Peter meets them, they have a will they or won't they, they date after some struggle, Peter frets about revealing his secret to him, and they eventually break up due to the stress. There may be some variation, but the arc remains essentially the same. That is why despite the female character being different, their role in the story is the same others went through and thus doesn't come off as particularly interesting. Mostly because the audience has been through this story before, and been through it when it was told better.

In addition to that, this more appropriate love interest tends to be not a character that the protagonist might find more appealing, but what the creator finds more appealing. And not every creator is going to have the same ideas as to what would be best for the character, and it may conflict with the audiences values. I'm reminded of Doctor Who and the last two showrunners. Both created companions and love interests that they considered good matches for the protagonist, but met with some resistance of the fanbase. For Russel T. Davis, he regarded Rose as the perfect companion and someone the Doctor would easily fall in love with. Stephen Moffat created River Song, perhaps the exact opposite character in terms of background and abilities, and she was regarded as being worthy of the Doctor's affections and even becoming his wife. But the audience found Rose rather unlikable, coming off as childish and selfish and many of her better qualities talked up but never shown. With River Song, she was criticized for essentially taking over the show, being better than even the titular character than most everything, and coming off as a Mary Sue. I think this is a fairly common problem when creating new love interests, since the creator is looking to satisfy their own wants, rather than the reader's needs.

And to bring it back around to MJ, this is why I think she is a great love interest for Spider-Man. She wasn't written to be Peter's perfect love. She was someone who was just meant to be a distraction for the real love interest. But the benefit was that she was able to develop a personality all of her own, which allowed to personal growth. Her arc wasn't about giving Peter his perfect mate, but her coming to terms with overcoming her own flaws and hangups and accepting that loving Peter isn't going to lead to a happy ending but that it would be worth it anyway. She wasn't written to be perfect. That's why she's so appealing. She's not Peter's perfect match. And it is that conflict that fuels the drama in the mythos, and makes her character and her relationship with Peter so compelling.

It is worth noting that audience will disagree with one another when it comes to what characters work best in particular roles, and even what the best attributes of the characters are.

To use your Doctor Who, some people think the series worked in spite of Rose, while some others would argue that Billie Piper deserves some credit for the success of the revival.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

It is worth noting that audience will disagree with one another when it comes to what characters work best in particular roles, and even what the best attributes of the characters are.

To use your Doctor Who, some people think the series worked in spite of Rose, while some others would argue that Billie Piper deserves some credit for the success of the revival.

But Billie Piper deserving some of the credit for the revival doesn't necessarily have to do with her being a perfect love interest for the Doctor. Karen Gillan was a very popular companion in the recent series, who never had anything to do with her romantic interest in the Doctor. The success of an actor's performance does not mean that their character is therefore a more appropriate love interest for the protagonist.

[Aruran.]

I think the problem with that, especially when it comes to love interests, is that the character really isn't written to address what the audience may need or want, but to their specifications. Often it seems that the love interest isn't written as a way to create an interesting story first, but instead under the auspices of being a better match for the protagonist than other love interests. The story seems to come second. In regards to Spider-Man, it seems the primary focus of the creators when coming up with this new love interest is to make her into a more appropriate match rather than focusing on creating a compelling narrative or arc. The problem this causes is that while the character may have some unique qualities, the arc they go through is the same arc that several characters went through before- Peter meets them, they have a will they or won't they, they date after some struggle, Peter frets about revealing his secret to him, and they eventually break up due to the stress. There may be some variation, but the arc remains essentially the same. That is why despite the female character being different, their role in the story is the same others went through and thus doesn't come off as particularly interesting. Mostly because the audience has been through this story before, and been through it when it was told better.

In addition to that, this more appropriate love interest tends to be not a character that the protagonist might find more appealing, but what the creator finds more appealing. And not every creator is going to have the same ideas as to what would be best for the character, and it may conflict with the audiences values. I'm reminded of Doctor Who and the last two showrunners. Both created companions and love interests that they considered good matches for the protagonist, but met with some resistance of the fanbase. For Russel T. Davis, he regarded Rose as the perfect companion and someone the Doctor would easily fall in love with. Stephen Moffat created River Song, perhaps the exact opposite character in terms of background and abilities, and she was regarded as being worthy of the Doctor's affections and even becoming his wife. But the audience found Rose rather unlikable, coming off as childish and selfish and many of her better qualities talked up but never shown. With River Song, she was criticized for essentially taking over the show, being better than even the titular character than most everything, and coming off as a Mary Sue. I think this is a fairly common problem when creating new love interests, since the creator is looking to satisfy their own wants, rather than the reader's needs.

And to bring it back around to MJ, this is why I think she is a great love interest for Spider-Man. She wasn't written to be Peter's perfect love. She was someone who was just meant to be a distraction for the real love interest. But the benefit was that she was able to develop a personality all of her own, which allowed to personal growth. Her arc wasn't about giving Peter his perfect mate, but her coming to terms with overcoming her own flaws and hangups and accepting that loving Peter isn't going to lead to a happy ending but that it would be worth it anyway. She wasn't written to be perfect. That's why she's so appealing. She's not Peter's perfect match. And it is that conflict that fuels the drama in the mythos, and makes her character and her relationship with Peter so compelling.

I'd say the common problem with any love interest is that they have to be entertaining, and a lot of the times they aren't. Anything a creator does is satisfying their own wants, but that doesn't mean it will be entertaining. There's a middle ground they have to find to make the stories work, which is never easy. But satisfying the reader's needs is just as bad, cause the reader doesn't need these stories. They need to be interested, but they don't need these stories to cater to want they want.

[Link]

Anything can be pitched. But I think the odds of us going down that road again, especially with the same characters, is about as close to nil as it could possibly be.

Sooooo does this mean its as close to never as it could possible be? Is that what Brevoorts saying?

[Aruran.]

Sooooo does this mean its as close to never as it could possible be? Is that what Brevoorts saying?

Pretty much close to zero chances.
It's really more that they right now won't do it, but they can't rule out someone later on pitching the idea and they aren't there.
At one point someone will address it, it just won't be from the current editorial.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

Sooooo does this mean its as close to never as it could possible be? Is that what Brevoorts saying?

It could either mean that there's zero chance, or that there is a chance and that Brevoort is about to be contradicted. Again.

The guy has a long history with Marvel, sure, but I have found what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt. Again, I point to the Bleeding Cool article I posted- he answered someone's question that Marvel isn't as jaded or as cynical as death in comics as the fans seem to be, yet a joke in the recent issue of Nightcrawler has the titular character making a crack about how dying as an X-Man is passe.

And, again, going by his history, he's been against things that were later put through, like bringing Norman back from the dead. And he's said things to prevent future storylines from being spoiled. So, while it's probably likely that he's being straight with everyone, it's also likely that he's merely repeating a company line that can likely be changed at a moments notice.

[Qrx2]

The only reason why so many hook ups with Peter have failed is because the writers were unwilling to use the ones that would work, like Felicia Hardy(Pre-OMD), Betty Brant, Liz Allan, Jennifer Walters, Carol Danvers, Jessica Drew, Silver Sable, Black Widow, and Betsy Braddock respectively. I can say that sales would not drop if the writer would choose to use one of the women on this list as an alternate to Mary Jane. The women that the Marvel wants to give to Peter are not interesting; that's the reason why fans do not like it at all. There is nothing wrong with writing MJ out of the series for a short time to allow the respected existing friendships that Peter has to developed.

I don't agree with that. In fact they have tried to replace her with some of the people on your list maybe the most notable one being Felicia Hardy and they still had to bring MJ back. Also I don't think Betty Brant or Liz Allan are really the answers either as they were both his first two love interests in the books and they still felt the need to introduce people Gwen Stacy and MJ.

Sales have dropped in the past or at least there was enough back lash in the past when they have tried to write MJ out of the books (which they have tried at least three or four different times) to cause them to feel the need to bring her back. The majority of Spider-man's fans want her in the books and make it known they don't like it when they take her out.

[Dr. Jay]

So...appreciation threads no longer have hot pictures of the characters in them? That's too bad. Over a hundred posts and only one poster has put up any Artgerm pictures.

[Darthfury78]

So...appreciation threads no longer have hot pictures of the characters in them? That's too bad. Over a hundred posts and only one poster has put up any Artgerm pictures.

[Darthfury78]

I don't agree with that. In fact they have tried to replace her with some of the people on your list maybe the most notable one being Felicia Hardy and they still had to bring MJ back. Also I don't think Betty Brant or Liz Allan are really the answers either as they were both his first two love interests in the books and they still felt the need to introduce people Gwen Stacy and MJ.

Sales have dropped in the past or at least there was enough back lash in the past when they have tried to write MJ out of the books (which they have tried at least three or four different times) to cause them to feel the need to bring her back. The majority of Spider-man's fans want her in the books and make it known they don't like it when they take her out.

Let me be clear by saying that no one is asking for MJ to be replaced as Peter's love interest. The goal is to retire her for a short time to allow the respected development of Peter's existing lady friends on a personal level than we have right now, starting with Betty Brant, Jennifer Walters, Liz Allan, and Betsy Braddock on the Peter Parker side, and Jessica Drew and Black Widow on the Spider-Man side. The goal is to establish a base that other writers might want to pick-up from where the previous writer left off. If any of these women are developed into their own unique relationship with Peter Parker/Spider-Man(As we had seen with Felicia Hardy(Pre-OMD) and Carol Danvers), then it might start a rotation where no one person will standout as Peter's love interest since all have an equal shot depending on the writer. Although no one is saying that it has to turn into a serious romantic relationship. But the underlining tensions are there for each of them towards Peter respectively and allow some of those outside characters to have some of Peter underused rogue galleries.

Black Widow vs Styx & Stone
Spider-Woman vs Mr. Negative
She-Hulk vs Hydro Man
Psylocke vs Carnage

[Aruran.]

So...appreciation threads no longer have hot pictures of the characters in them? That's too bad. Over a hundred posts and only one poster has put up any Artgerm pictures.

Casagrande - Mary Jane & Spidey puppy CAF.jpg

I dunno if this is an Art gem, but it's pretty cool.

[Kevinroc]

MJ telling off Thanos. (From Spidey Super Stories.)

[Darth Howie]

You know, at this point I just treat Spider-Girl as the real ending of Peter Parker and MJ's relationship and treat OMD and beyond as the alternate continuity. That makes me a lot happier.

Also, sticking this page here for Joe Quesada and Axel Alonso. If you don't root for Peter and MJ after this page, I just can't understand you.

[Aruran.]

You know, at this point I just treat Spider-Girl as the real ending of Peter Parker and MJ's relationship and treat OMD and beyond as the alternate continuity. That makes me a lot happier.

Also, sticking this page here for Joe Quesada and Axel Alonso. If you don't root for Peter and MJ after this page, I just can't understand you.

umm theres no image, or if there is it's not loading. :/

[Darth Howie]

Must not be loading. Works just find for me. Here's the link: http://4thletter.net/wp-content/uplo...er-man-122.jpg