What To Do About Fantastic Four?

[I_Wumbo_You_Wumbo]

How do you think the studios should handle the Fantastic Four franchise? Before I get into this, I just have to say. I do not hate the current films. These are characters we as geeks cherish and respect, integral to a huge part of the Marvel Universe, and to see them treated as they have been in the past couple films, when it's certain that they could be treated so much better, is a disappointment. So it's not from hate that I propose this, but from a desire to see the characters done justice. Just run with me here for a second (or several).

Marvel Studios should, due to the poor ability of other studios to make a well-received Fantastic Four film (I know that the "well-received" in a matter of opinion, but for this thread let's just go by the general gripe about the previous three Fantastic Four films made by a multitude of fans, rather than discuss whether or not they were worthy in all of our eyes) try to get the characters back. I know many people doubt the ability of Marvel to make that happen, but hey, we got it with Spider-man, and TASM2 was, in most's eyes, better than the past three FF movies, so it is plausible. So let's say, lets just say that this were to happen. Somehow. Then what? The answer to the FF problems.

Netflix.

Of course there's a objection. "They're not Jessica Jones, why would they do a Netflix series when they're so well known?" Because here's the truth, and it's hard, but it's real - the Fantastic Four franchise has, unfortunately, become equated with what most people do not want in a super hero film (or what they just straight up hate on, in some circles). So why not give a shot to another avenue for developing the FF legacy?

Marvel has succeeded in taking one relatively popular character with a poorly received movie, Daredevil, putting him on Netflix with a 13 episode season, and making him an epic, well developed, realistic (as realistic as radioactive heightened senses can be), and deep character. They've just proved that they can do it again with an even lesser known (to the general public) character in Jessica Jones, crafting an excellently made character, plot, and running exploration of different themes via a 13 episode television season. Both characters, when guided by the right studio and given room to breathe, have been executed extremely well. They are allowed to spend twenty or thirty minutes alone on backstory interspersed throughout the seasons for the character and surrounding characters (including the villains in each show), they have allowed for other Marvel characters to cameo without being forced in, and the seasons have even allowed things that would have otherwise most likely been corny ("What, was the name "Murdercorpse" taken?", "I just want to make my city a better place") to sound completely authentic, because the character is allowed to develop a voice and personality over several hours of television. Those apply to both the heroes andthe villains, because the time we spend with them (along with excellent casting choices and directing) allows us to believe that they are authentic and that these things could happen (in a loose sense).

Now think about the Fantastic Four. Is the issue the studio? Or the characters? Maybe it's both. Think about it. The studio that currently has them has tried to make three movies involving five main characters with super powers, somehow get us to believe and buy into the family dynamic between them all in two hours, as well as believe the corny lines and references in the Tim Story films, and the extreme science fiction and intentional avoidance of referencing much direct Fantastic Four lingo under Josh Trank's direction (not to mention awkward pacing). The strength of Netflix television is it's ability to allow the characters development and screen time to the point where we buy into and believe the things that are happening. Taking 5 main characters (Johnny, Sue, Richard, Ben, and Victor), as well as whatever easter egg characters and components they want to fit in, compiling the right team of people in the show regarding casting, direction, writing, and such (that Marvel has clearly shown they have the ability to do) and asking for a slightly larger special effects budget could radically change the taste that continually is left in our mouths after watching a movie based on Marvel's first family. Using Netflix, Marvel could look into the interpersonal relationships and family dynamic of the team, they could delve into the brother sister relationship of Sue and Johnny instead of giving it just a couple of mentions, they could build the angst between Victor and Richard for Sue's heart in the flashbacks, the could grow Sue and Richards romance throughout the season, and they could build and execute Dr. Doom's character into his commonly known role of one of Marvel's best super villains of all time. And most importantly, they could truly execute a well produced, directed, written, and acted Fantastic Four franchise.

The benefits? Several. For one, for such a famous and integral team to the Marvel Universe, even if they got the rights today, slated a movie for 2018, and got it out by that date, it would be hard for Marvel to make them a staple of the MCU this deep in the game. Putting them in the MCU Netflix realm could make it simple to introduce them, give them backstory, and make them embedded in the cloth of the growing MCU (even though we didn't see Daredevil in "Age of Ultron" or "Ant-Man", we were all thinking "He's there somewhere", at least I know I was). Second, it would allow them to bridge the gap between the Movies and Television. Well, let me rephrase that, it would allow them to bridge the gap should they choose to do so. It's still pretty uncertain whether or not Marvel is planning on doing such a thing, and if they were, how are you going to practically have Iron Man meet Daredevil and begin to work together? Maybe Mister Fantastic's genius gels with Tony, and the Human Torch needs a lawyer for some shenanigan's he's pulled near the Baxter building. Somewhere down the road I believe the FF can bring the MCU together. Just one way they could go about doing so. Third, while I know that, practically and in the world, of course, Marvel is in the business in part for the money, how will this fill the pockets of Marvel Studios? Seriously, market. The crap. Out of the Netflix FF. Honestly, I did a quick research project (I mean very quick, loose, and simple). I googled "Daredevil T Shirt" and went through 10 pages before I ran out of options. Then I typed in "Fantastic Four T-shirt" and got through about a page and a half of relevant Fantastic Four stuff. This is the Fantastic Four people. They are a big enough team and have enough impact that they would be able to draw in audiences and money from marketing in areas they targeted. T-shirts, Toys, tie-in comics or one shots, statues, and a re-boot of the comic itself. Plus, to be honest, if they make a well received FF franchise happen - imagine the praise from geeks around the globe. That alone is going to bring the fans rushing into the theatre's and to Netflix subscriptions (as previous series have proved they can).

All in all, this could be it. I, and I expect some others as well, would rather see a well-made (and what I believe could be excellent) Fantastic Four TV show that I invest 13 hours in over a season, then another lackluster movie I throw two and a half hours away on. Are there flaws? I'll admit, yes, there are. But trying something new that has been working doesn't have as many flaws as limping on in something old that continuously falls flat, just risks, and those risks for other, lesser franchises have absolutely paid off. I'm not saying it's even possible right now. But I am saying is that it's a viable option, and there are valid reasons for considering it if Marvel Studios ever is able to get the rights back. Putting the Fantastic Four on the small screen could be the best option and incarnation of the team for Marvel Studios and geeks everywhere.

[jackolover]

I never bought into the movie Reed Richards, changing him into a young nerd, or Doom for that matter. The comicbook origin story was that Reed was rich, (not poor like the movie Reed), and he bullheadedly pushed forward a dangerous flight that went wrong, causing him to have a trauma over destroying people's lives, like Sue Johnny and Ben. I think these tropes are important about Reed Richards, and it gives momentum to his story as tragic, and belligerently smart. It sets the scene for Sues continual battle to reel Reed in, (whereas the movie Sue is a self made woman who could take Reed or leave him).

I think it was a mistake to change the movie Reed Richards away from his Kirby/Lee persona. I couldn't relate to movies Reed, whereas comics Richards was the driving glue that moved the FF, but he wasn't anymore in the movie. In the movie he was a begging bum.

I want to see a Reed Richards that has me mesmerised with the way he feverishly works all the time, to make his inventions and when he reveals them, it is a shock. This is the Fantastic Four. "Reed, come to bed. You've been in that lab 72 hours. You have to eat. Is that an earthquake, and should we go check, or, is that Reed in the lab?"

[Reality]

We need a good movie. That's it. A Netflix show would be too expensive to execute properly- it should be a huge budget movie. Really, it needs to go back to Marvel so it can get the resources it needs.

[Crimz]

I agree that their future is only in the MCU and I like the idea of a Netflix series, but the execution of it will be a problem. The Fantastic Four use concepts that are so imaginative and sci-fi heavy, that a Netflix series won't the budget to pull that off along side their powers. Netflix could never do stories like Galactus with Uatu, or the negative zone, And they would need these stories for it to truly be the Fantastic Four. Part of the reason why the Fox films are such a disappointment is that they got characterization of the four wrong, like jackolover said (especially Reed, Sue and Doom). The Fox films also failed at utilizing the FF's best concepts, instead of flying through space, journeying to another dimension or travelling through time. They were stuck on earth(New York mainly), doing the most boring things when they should be exploring the unknown. Only the latest film explored another dimension, but even that was very short-lived and lackluster. It should have visuals and concepts similar to Interstellar, but with more joy fun.

The Fantastic Four can only be done justice on film, Fox has tarnished the brand but it's not irreparably damaged. Another thing that is in Marvel's favour, is that Fox has basically made the same story 3 times. They have't even scratched the surface of the Fantastic Four.

Fantastic Four (2005) - Get powers. Adjust to powers. fight Doom

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer - Problems with powers. Adjust to powers. Fight Doom (Silver Surfer was just a plot device, and the less said about that fart cloud the better)

Fant4stic (2015) - Get powers. Adjust to powers. Fight Doom.

All three are basically the same premise with slight differences (four films if we count Cormans), we never get the exploration or the highly imaginative scientific ideas or inventions. Marvel can do so much with this property and it has a lot to bring to the MCU, putting them in a Netflix series would be a waste. There is definitely a market for a Fantastic Four film done right.

[Of Atlantis]

I feel like the concept of Fantastic Four is too grand to execute on a Netflix budget tbh.

[t hedge coke]

I feel like the concept of Fantastic Four is too grand to execute on a Netflix budget tbh.

Depends on what you want out of it, I guess.

My favorite FF stuff isn't the big vista visuals or event he dramatic massive alien incursions (it's not the sitcom-y family with catchphrases, either). I like when the FF take the day off in some interdimensional realm for a picnic. I like when they go to a weird old castle and there's a crazy alchemist. When they get hypnotized by a guy into seeing attacking movie ads. When they sit around at home pranking each other or watching the kid. Unstable Molecules is a hell of a comic, and it's pretty fx low key. Simonson's run would've passed muster on Syfy back when it was still the SciFi Channel, on that kind of budget, because the fx, hopefully, wouldn't be what's driving it.

I still think the 90s movie is the best movie version. You'd need slightly better fx than that, natch, but don't know that blowing the bank on it is going to make it worth or not worth watching to too many people. It's tv.

[Of Atlantis]

Depends on what you want out of it, I guess.

My favorite FF stuff isn't the big vista visuals or event he dramatic massive alien incursions (it's not the sitcom-y family with catchphrases, either). I like when the FF take the day off in some interdimensional realm for a picnic. I like when they go to a weird old castle and there's a crazy alchemist. When they get hypnotized by a guy into seeing attacking movie ads. When they sit around at home pranking each other or watching the kid. Unstable Molecules is a hell of a comic, and it's pretty fx low key. Simonson's run would've passed muster on Syfy back when it was still the SciFi Channel, on that kind of budget, because the fx, hopefully, wouldn't be what's driving it.

I still think the 90s movie is the best movie version. You'd need slightly better fx than that, natch, but don't know that blowing the bank on it is going to make it worth or not worth watching to too many people. It's tv.

That's fair. I just feel with so many grand concepts at their disposal, Marvel would sooner see the value in connecting that with their greater MCU universe than keeping the FF so low-key. Wouldn't mind seeing the stories you'd like to see either though, I just don't see Marvel seeing the value in it like we would.

[penthotal]

The very first story arc from Ultimate FF by Millar & Bends adapted as a high budget movie. Science, Doom, the Negative Zone, family and friends dynamics, it has them all, and if the movies goes well the sequel can be the Warren Ellis' Ultimate FF arc in the already introduced Negative Zone with Annhilus.

[t hedge coke]

The very first story arc from Ultimate FF by Millar & Bends adapted as a high budget movie. Science, Doom, the Negative Zone, family and friends dynamics, it has them all, and if the movies goes well the sequel can be the Warren Ellis' Ultimate FF arc in the already introduced Negative Zone with Annhilus.

Didn't we essentially just get that? Only, Doom didn't have goat hooves.

[CCSlim]

Ill never understand why the F4 haven't teamed up with the GOTG, Nova Corps, Shiar

Anything Cosmic MU should be their Area

[penthotal]

Didn't we essentially just get that? Only, Doom didn't have goat hooves.

I didn't watch the last FF movie so frankly I couldn't say. That story was good though, at least I liked it at the time, he managed to bring the FF to the present without taking away their important elements, Reed insane curiosity, Sue strong character, the strong friendship between Reed and Ben, the jokes between Johnny and Ben, the love / hate relation between Reed and Victor, and the idea of using the Negative Zone as a source for their powers and Doom powers / crazyness was a neat one, at least Doom's hate for Reed was more sensible him seeing Reed as the culprit of his new state. Maybe the last movie had similar ideas but simply sucked?

[t hedge coke]

I didn't watch the last FF movie so frankly I couldn't say. That story was good though, at least I liked it at the time, he managed to bring the FF to the present without taking away their important elements, Reed insane curiosity, Sue strong character, the strong friendship between Reed and Ben, the jokes between Johnny and Ben, the love / hate relation between Reed and Victor, and the idea of using the Negative Zone as a source for their powers and Doom powers / crazyness was a neat one, at least Doom's hate for Reed was more sensible him seeing Reed as the culprit of his new state. Maybe the last movie had similar ideas but simply sucked?

I'm the wrong person to ask about the last part, since I was the one person who liked it. (Not a perfect movie, but a good movie, and a good FF for me.)

It presented the FF as younger, with Sue and Johnny's father running a government-funded lab for smart kids with Ben as Reed's childhood friend, creating a portal to the Negative Zone, where they get their powers, and, eventually, so does Doom. There are differences, but it was pretty close to Ultimate FF's early issues.

[JKtheMac]

I do think a TV show could work, but I am not convinced Netflix would be the natural place for it to exist. The Fantastic Four is not a realistic and gritty property, so it would sit uneasily besides the various Defenders or the other rumoured properties that might end up on that platform. Netflix, like HBO and Starz, are playing to their unique selling point of being able to take on more contoversial topics and darker or sexier themes.

On the other hand, clearly something is up with Marvel and Fox, since Fox came to the table to talk about TV shows everybody is quietly playing nicely again. We may have reason to be optimistic for the first time in years. Comic events seem to be reflecting the Fox movies instead of ignoring them. Plus, film directors and potential TV showrunners at Fox seem to be respecting the original properties a little more.

Maybe Fox will make a new Fantastic Four cartoon to test the waters. Animation is much cheaper now and you don’t need to make that many.

[CaptCleghorn]

The big question IMO should be: "What makes FF different from X-Men or Avengers or GOTG?" Unless you can find the reason to bring a plot and adventure to a different franchise, why not just do it with what you have? The FF is family, far more than any other comic book franchise (at least in American superhero stuff). Doom has the professional rivalry with Reed going for him. Namor has the romantic rivalry. Puppet Master has Ben dating Alicia. A witch babysat Franklin.

I'd want to go back with an extended origin story showing off the four actually teaming up and stealing a rocket to do something heroic that only Reed sees. This is where we'd see Reed and Sue's relationship. Johnny and Sue's sibling nature. Ben and Reed's offbeat friendship and Ben and Johnny's frenemy teasing. Our characters are set before they get the powers which separate them from other people. Start the movie with a focus on Manhattan, looking at the island and how human it appears. Pan out until you see the Baxter Building and the flare shooting up eventually making a giant number 4.

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the latest few FF movies. The idea of a younger Reed seems really off to me. I like the idea of Reed and Ben older than Sue by a few years and Sue a few years older than Johnny. That's the difference between the FF and the Teen Titans, or any of the 943 young people group franchises currently out there. The FF is family, they're as much breakfast scenes as they are cosmic extravaganzas. I want to see Ben complaining about out of Lucky Charms and Johnny whining about Reed not having improved on a Keurig. There's a firehouse feel when the team has to leave in the middle of something to deal with Galactus on their roof.

Stick with the Lee/Kirby or Byrne or Hickman stylings. Go crazy with the Hickman or Simonson science fiction, but without the home feel, it's not the FF for me.

[JKtheMac]

One thing I think we don't need is another origin story. Marvel are learning that lesson slowly, the way to do origin stories is bring them up naturally as the story you are telling unfolds. (Unless the origin story itself is compelling, which I really don't think F4's is.) You could do a ten minute pre-credit sequence for the origin without really skipping much. To be honest I quite liked the 2005 version, and I felt the exploration of the changes was dealt with well. Doom not so much. It didn't dwell on the origin to much but possibly didn't have a vary compelling story either.

One of the main reasons I decided to give the latest movie a skip was because I am bored of long origin stories for their own sake.