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  1. #16
    DC Enthusiast Tony's Avatar
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    Tim might not be selling well with the rebooted new 52 origin but it's easy to see from these responses Tim inspires a lot of passion. Maybe instead of muddying the waters further, just get him a good writer to capture the feel of old Tim and let the fans use the stories they want for his origin. I doubt not referring to the messy issues that happened at the start of the relaunch would hamper the comics very much.

    With DC reprinting all of Chuck Dixons Bat family work now it's pretty easy for new fans to see what all the fuss was about back then.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Aahz, I'm really curious how you view the "Tim got his parents in trouble then got adopted by Bruce" plot point in the Lobdell origin. And not just whether or not you like, but how you justify it if you accept it, whether you regard it's as insignificant if you don't care, or something that could be changed.

    Because to me, that's the single weakest segment of the new origin. For Tim, it seems like an exceptionally stupid move, since he apparently gets caught immediately and his family gets caught in the crossfire, making his hack look incompetent and his selection of a target incredibly foolish. For the Witness Protection Agency, it makes no sense to separate Tim from his family, particularly when Tim's the one who caused the issue. And for Bruce, why would you accept a kid who has so thoroughly demonstrated his inadequate judgement and immaturity for the job? Particularly after having a Robin get killed?

    I feel this segment is what hurts the origin more than anything, and that it really does hurt the character. I agree with you that his parents should be alive, but what's the point of them being left alive if they're not characters for Tim but mere targets for his enemies or bystanders caught in the crossfire? If Tim is supposed to be humbled by his mistake, they haven't shown nearly enough humility for it; if anything, he's got even more arrogance than the Red Robin series version for the character, and that guy had a justified reason to be confident in his capabilities. And again, why the hell is Bruce supposed to see this sequence of events and not just chew Tim out and make sure he keeps his head down with his parents?
    That`s the weakest part to me as well. One of the things that made him stand out was not sharing the same familiar tragedy of Bruce, Dick and Jason. What i seriously lacking are some details (any, in fact) about what Tim was or did and how he did it - during the process of finding out who Batman and Jason was and honoring him. Did he take it up to himself solo? Did he talk with Bruce or Dick?
    Last edited by Aioros22; 12-20-2015 at 05:44 PM.

  3. #18

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    Well I'm glad they're working some kind of tie with Dick Grayson in but I liked the old one better and liked him not being a star gymnast.

    About the rebooting his origin and his parents deaths pre52 we'll have to agree to disagree because I consider him having parents and then loosing them because of his association with other heroes/being Robin is a completely different and unique. No matter what that Tim will always feel in part responsible for his father's death because in part he is responsible. If he hadn't been Robin his father wouldn't have been killed. It's kind of an Shakespeare like tragedy. Just because it's parents also die doesn't make it the same as the other Robin's parents deaths, context is everything. I get you didn't like the angrier darker side of his personality that these events brought out but a good amount did. Part of the problem is that with a lot of these comics they need to take time to build their characters and study what came before and people's responses to better build a character that people will like as they did the old. Part of the fun Tim was watching him grow and change overtime. I do not feel he needs/should be always locked into the role of teenager. They could give him a solo series but it won't matter if it's written by someone like Lobdell and if they won't change some of the most irritating parts of his back story like him not being Robin and endangering his parents.

    Also in regard to other comments I still feel that pre52 Red Robin is much different from current Red Robin.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Tim might not be selling well with the rebooted new 52 origin but it's easy to see from these responses Tim inspires a lot of passion. Maybe instead of muddying the waters further, just get him a good writer to capture the feel of old Tim and let the fans use the stories they want for his origin. I doubt not referring to the messy issues that happened at the start of the relaunch would hamper the comics very much.

    With DC reprinting all of Chuck Dixons Bat family work now it's pretty easy for new fans to see what all the fuss was about back then.
    In my opinion, if a writer references old continuity, than that's a retcon, and the new origin seems so limiting to me that I'd almost require any new writer to make it explicitly clear somehow that he's ignoring at least certain aspects of the new origin. Tim being responsible for his parents' situation is such a case to me; whenever they show up and they don't address why his parents are separated from him hurts the story for me because implicitly, I'm still supposed to see him as being at fault for the entire situation and yet rewarded for it. It's one of the reasons why I didn't pick up any issue of Pfeifer's Teen Titans run even before Lobdell showed up; even without referencing the previous volume's Trigon arc, the tepid treatment of Tim and Cassie's rape-by-proxie struck me as an endorsement of that story, and after Lobdell showed up and brought up the stench of Harvest once more, I've effectively decided I'm not picking up that book at all unless it gets alterations.

    It's also like the Jon Kent Superboy book. The last few creators managed to apparently execute a good story, but their entire plot was built upon a foundation of stupid.

    Though, if I may lay out a compromise version for me, if Fabian Nicieza or another such veteran writer who understands the character were to take over, have Tim visit Hong Kong to investigate the Golden Dragons and Lynx, reference a previous fight with King Snake, and then also call and talk to his mom and dad before turning on a game station and playing some online games with Ives, that would be an acceptable new direction for the character.

    But I would still keep one of my possible goals with my dream of being a writer that when I grow up, I'm going to explicitly retcon Lobdell's work on any of the Titans/YJ4 not named Bunker. He, and the editorial that failed him, torched an entire generation of characters, and they need fresh soil to start on.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    For me, the main flaw of the post-FP origin was that Tim was portrayed as arrogant and rather self-centered. In "A Lonely Place of Dying", Tim was so focused on saving Batman that he didn't even realize that he was himself a viable candidate to be Batman's partner until Alfred pointed it out, which is pretty much the opposite of self-centered.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  6. #21
    Spectacular Member TRS80's Avatar
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    I prefer a simple backstory.

    Tim is different because he volunteered for the job. His motivation is fueled by genius. Not by tragedy. He's not prone to psychopathy like Jason and Damian, either. The End.

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