The New Earth and Pre-Flashpoint Superman Meet up

[Super4Ever]

What do you want to see of out this momentous interaction?

One, I would prefer if these two didn't pick each other apart. This is Superman meets Superman, they should admire each others differences and point out the strengths of one another. It should be a friendly meet up, with Pre-Flashpoint Superman giving his condolences to the current Kal-El for all the things he has recently had to go through.

Maybe in a follow up issue, one that doesn't already have so much going on, they can compare stories. "Let me tell you about my Parasite" "Well, this is what happened with my Doomsday" etc.

They should each have a bit of curiosity at each other's choice for a romantic partner, but no opinion either way.
New Earth Supes: "Lois, huh? Looks like things really worked out for the two of you."
Pre-FP Supes: "Don't think the thought of being with Diana never crossed my mind, I'm sure you two will work it out."

Basically, I want to see supportive interactions between the two.

What about you guys?

[Sacred Knight]

Just a few things.

Superman to offer to help keep old Superman's secret.
Old Superman not being condescending or preachy toward Superman. Like you said, supportive interactions.
Intergang and the new Hank Henshaw introduced to Superman via what old Superman has been going through in his book.

I'd prefer absolutely nothing be said about the romantic side of things, as I have a funny feeling it'd serve only to throw Diana under the bus and pull some bullcrap destiny card with Lois again, but again, if it is brought up, light curiosity at best would be best.

[manofsteel1979]

Agreed with the both of you. I'll add that I hope #52 (assuming this is a three issue arc) ends with our Kal helping Pre-Flashpoint Superman and family find their Earth and allows them to go home so we give them a happy ending. Perhaps leaving behind his old (read: classic) suit as a momento to our current Superman to either alter slightly and wear or add to his collection of stuff for his Fortress, at his option.

However, I have a feeling we will see either Pre-Fp Superman being a dick to the current Superman's over his life choices to unnaturally influence things to push him in a certain direction (I.E. lazy writing)...or even worse, somehow merge the two Supermen and retcon the continuity again AND unnaturally push him in a certain direction, while not pleasing anyone really but Warner Bros suits and /or Dan DiDio.To quote Star Wars...I have a bad feeling about this....

[Myskin]

What do you want to see of out this momentous interaction?

I want it not to happen.

[HsssH]

Its really a problem and I don't see at the moment how DC will pull this off. People who "hate" new Superman want him to be schooled by older Superman. People who don't mind new Superman really don't want this to happen. Some people in general think that its stupid idea regardless of what happens. DC put itself into situation where they will be forced to break some eggs. I'm sure its going to give a sale boost for that issue but after that? Expect to see more bitching.

[Sacred Knight]

Just had a thought...maybe old Superman will don the New 52 costume and help Clark stage a scene where Clark and Superman are together to denounce the revelation of his identity as a lie. Like Matrix did for him a time or two post-Crisis. Maybe that's how they resolve the identity being outed. No magic mindwipes or anything, and it could leave the door open for more intuitive minds to still not believe it, and the act could hurt the reputation of Lois's career, making her work extra hard to "redeem" herself or something, all the while knowing she wasn't wrong in the first place...could be interesting. At the very least it could make this meet-up worthwhile.

[HsssH]

Thats interesting idea. Would fool everyone.

[Myskin]

Just had a thought...maybe old Superman will don the New 52 costume and help Clark stage a scene where Clark and Superman are together to denounce the revelation of his identity as a lie. Like Matrix did for him a time or two post-Crisis. Maybe that's how they resolve the identity being outed. No magic mindwipes or anything, and it could leave the door open for more intuitive minds to still not believe it, and the act could hurt the reputation of Lois's career, making her work extra hard to "redeem" herself or something, all the while knowing she wasn't wrong in the first place...could be interesting. At the very least it could make this meet-up worthwhile.

Maybe that's what they'll do, and it's terrible nonetheless.

[Sacred Knight]

Might as well give it some relevance to the main Superman. I'm not a fan of the idea of them being on this Earth at all, but that's beside the point now because they're here and this issue is happening, so something like this would at least be something practical and sensical to come out of the encounter in the first place. Any pre-determined destiny crap can take a flying leap, but practical stuff I'm all for.

[Myskin]

Might as well give it some relevance to the main Superman. I'm not a fan of the idea of them being on this Earth at all, but that's beside the point now because they're here and this issue is happening, so to me this is making the most of it. Practical stuff outside of any pre-determined destiny crap. That I dont' want at all.

Let me explain why having bearded Superman help New52 Superman to hide his identity (in the same way which has been hypothesized here) is as horrible as having him advising New52 Supes about love and heroism.

When Truth began, it was supposed to be way more than a story about Superman's identity being outed. It was supposed to be a story about how information works in modern world, how an information leak cannot ever be fully repaired. And it was supposed to be a metaphor about immigrant identity, the possibility of reconciling two different cultural identities - I remember an interview with Yang about this.

Now, I don't know how much of these concepts survived in current stories - I stopped reading Truth some time ago. But having bearded Superman play a trick which was already incredibly dated and old when they used it with Matrix Supergirl (and IMHO not very convincing at that time, either) would simply be the ultimate betrayal of the premises the story. It would basically be the writers saying: Ok, f*ck off, who cares. It doesn't have an ounce of realism, it doesn't have anything to do with the whole story. And should we be supposed to think that people like, I don't know, Perry White, would be convinced by it?

By the way, it would an incredibly cheap deus ex machina too. When Truth began, bearded Superman wasn't even mentioned. It's entering the story when it is already over (more or less), just to resolve it. It's no different than having Superman suddenly discover that he can magically make everyone forget about his identity thanks to previously undiscovered telepathic powers.

[Sacred Knight]

I don't think it'd be anywhere near as bad. Unoriginal, yes. But not some horrific thing. Because the thing is, all that stuff you mentioned? None of it survived. It turned into your everyday generic crossover. The identity being outed and the power loss really lost any sense of deeper nuance than just the fact they happened and Superman was grr mad about it. I don't think the story can be betrayed at this point because the original mission statement was lost at least two months ago, if not longer. There's nothing left to betray but intention, and intention didn't make it onto the printed page.

And to be honest, a part of the original idea, about information in this day and age never staying completely secret, could still survive even with this quick and hackneyed resolution. If they play it that some still don't buy into the ruse. That would keep that particular commentary intact, as it would still no longer be completely secret. Instead of something for Clark to keep secret, it turns more into something that he's trying to discredit because the idea is still out there. So its not the same thing as making everyone magically forget.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I don't have a particular expectation for their meeting. Whatever they say or do will be meaningless in the long run. Meet the Superman of Earth 2 has left nothing to the young New 52 Clark, the post-Crisis Superman met 2 times his Kingdom Come counterpart and it had no impact on him.
I don't think, this time, it'll be different, unless pre-Flashpoint Supes leaves his son Jon to our Clark before being erased from existence or die heroically to stop Parallax.

[Myskin]

And to be honest, a part of the original idea, about information in this day and age never staying completely secret, could still survive even with this quick and hackneyed resolution. If they play it that some still don't buy into the ruse.

'Some' still don't buy into the ruse? No offense meant, but if two identical Clarks (except for a pair of glasses and some differences in posture) would appear and one of them would say that he is Superman and let Clark Kent play his role for several months because of some secret reason which ultimately doesn't matter, I seriously doubt that most people would be convinced by what he is saying. Surely not in a world where society works in a barely credible way (and where shapeshifters exist and everyone knows about them, by the way). And this goes even beyond the whole 'respect the premise of Truth' thing.

Some years ago, Bendis' and Brubaker's Daredevil demonstrated - finally in a credible way - that putting a secret identity genie back into the bottle is incredibly difficult, because when a secret is revealed nobody will fully believe the facade once again, even if you do your best to cover it (and you succeed, at least formally speaking). Could anyone even vaguely understand the implication of such a conclusion of the Truth storyline? What about Kentville? Obama? The fact that the two Supermen have identical fingerprints? And if I were Metallo, I would keep an eye on Clark Kent for years from now on. Even better, I would make the Daily Planet and Clark Kent's house explode, just in case.

The 'impersonating twin' is a trick which belongs to the 1950s, when Superman could impersonate Batman just to save Bruce Wayne's secret identity. And it was a naive idea, exactly as 1950s comics were naive, generally speaking. Using the same trick today is no different than making Lex Luthor behave like an idiot who can't believe that Superman and Clark are one and the same and therefore dismiss EVERY investigation about him. Horrible, unjustified, forced storytelling just to push the character in the direction which the writers want. Plus: bearded Superman as a shameless deus ex machina - at this stage, even good old time travel would be better to provide a blank state. We are nearing JMS' Grounded level of plotting here.

Anyway, the story isn't written yet and if that's what the majority of readers would like, good luck. As far as I am concerned, I've got enough of this, and American Alien will be the last DC series I will follow.

[HsssH]

This discussion reminded me a bit about Spider-Man unmasking during Civil War and how Marvel were talking about how they could explore lots of new stories in this status quo. Once Civil War wrapped we got like one or two story arcs and One More Day happened. All talks about intent are really just marketing.

[TheNewFiftyForum]

I'm very pessimistic towards this idea, with the caveat that we have no idea how it will play out yet. However, I do feel that it was more than enough to confirm that the various Crises had taken place, in some form, and that the whatever favorite version fans had of various characters was still out there, in some form. Bringing various versions of Superman back this directly into continuity just muddies the waters, and indirectly says "Well, our plan to reinvigorate these characters didn't work, so let's put them on temporary life support by pleasing a vocal part of the fan base for an issue or two!" DC and the Superman office should stick to their ideas, not abandon them for some confused attempt at fan service.