Still My Biggest Problem With Wonder Woman - No Definitive Supporting Cast!

[SiegePerilous02]

The issue with Steve is that a lot of what people remember about him is a carry over from a less fondly remembered time in comics. He's always getting captured, is chauvinist at times and his role is to cause a young, naive woman to forsake her home because she has the hots for him.

And of all the problems Diana's been plagued with, her supposed lack of a sex life is the least of them. Rucka and Perez were just fine without one for her. And the new love interests being erased every time probably had more to do with their problems. I personally liked Trevor Barnes.

It seems kind of unfair to hold some dated writing against Steve. Him getting captured is hardly a bad thing, because then it allows the female hero to rescue her love interest. And just update the origin so they don't fall in love instantly. Unlike some, I didn't have a problem with Azzarello writing Diana as seeing Steve's crash as a call to adventure, not true love. Start them as friends and allies, and develop a romance from there. Fairly easy, and a much better modernization than making Steve a middle aged dude who has nothing to do with her besides the convoluted scenario of having his mother share the same name as her.

Like it or not, human psychology (including the sexual spectrum) is pretty entrenched in Wonder Woman due to Marston. In Supergods, Morrison stated that post-Marston Diana has always seemed like a bland mix between the Virgin Mary and Mary Tyler Moore. While I don't think that's true in every case, he's not entirely wrong either. It's the unique combination of classical myth, girl hero adventure stories, and psychological and sexual themes that make WW what she is. She seems neutered without the last two components. It shouldn't be at the forefront of every story, or even most of them, but I think the ultimate female hero being in touch with her sexuality and it being portrayed as positive would be a good thing.

[Outside_85]

Steve actively helped her out a lot in the Golden Age. He didn't need to be saved by her all the time. And while he was never as developed a character as Lois*, the archetype he plays is important. His romance with Diana subverts the gender roles that we see in superhero comics with the male leads and their civilian female love interests. If he's bland, it just means he's the bland male love interest surrounded by the majorly female cast who are getting all the meaty roles. That alone is pretty interesting.

1) What characters have adequately replaced Etta in her role as best friend? 2) How many have actually stuck around? And her size hasn't always been used as a punchline. Post-Crisis writers and Ben Caldwell never made her an obesity joke. Morrison's gonna give her back her firey personality, while making her curvy, not obese. DeLiz has drawn her plus sized, but also as a pretty young woman whose personality shines through. Her original portrayal is extremely dated, but it can (and has) be updated fairly easily.

*Who spent the majority of the Silver Age not doing any actual reporting, but trying to trap Superman into marrying her. And also falling off of tall buildings.

It's only interesting if you are interested in stereotypical depictions thats been turned on their heads. What was endearing back then isn't necessarily endearing now.
Also I am referring to Lois actually having that kind of job in an age where most women were still stuck in the kitchen. While Steve was an emascualted Captain America.

1) Do you want a list, because most seem to do that job just as well, they just dont get to spank Diana. 2) But neither did Etta, whom I seem to recall all but vanished after the Golden Age.

[Dr. Poison]

Doing what exactly? Certainly doesn't appear to be directly fighting the pair of gods that decided to duke it out on Earth.

Of course Steve isn't going to directly fight Darkseid or hte Anti-Monitor for several reasons. A.) That would be suicide for Steve, 2.) Steve and his team are better suited taking on Parademons or keeping civilians safe, and C.) Steve is a supporting character, not a member of the JL so why would he be fighting the main antagonists of the story? I get that you don't like Johns or anything connected to Wonder Woman that isn't tied to Greek Myth but saying that Steve is MIA is completely inaccurate.


SPOILERS:

In today's issue of Justice League, Steve and Diana are fighting Darkseid's forces and after the villains leave, Diana tells Steve that she's rarely, if ever, been this concerned before. Steve comforts her and starts to tell her that if this is really the end, he still loves her. The two are about to kiss until Superman aka the God of Strength shows up and pulls Steve away from Diana by the back of his head. Steve isn't just window dressing.

Check out this link for panels from the issue:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/12/...ague-spoilers/

[Vaffrey]

Me too but it has to be phat sassy Etta. The current Etta is only marginally more interesting than Zola.

This, times a thousand.

[Tayswift]

Of course Steve isn't going to directly fight Darkseid or hte Anti-Monitor for several reasons. A.) That would be suicide for Steve, 2.) Steve and his team are better suited taking on Parademons or keeping civilians safe, and C.) Steve is a supporting character, not a member of the JL so why would he be fighting the main antagonists of the story? I get that you don't like Johns or anything connected to Wonder Woman that isn't tied to Greek Myth but saying that Steve is MIA is completely inaccurate.


SPOILERS:

In today's issue of Justice League, spoilers:

Steve and Diana are fighting Darkseid's forces and after the villains leave, Diana tells Steve that she's rarely, if ever, been this concerned before. Steve comforts her and starts to tell her that if this is really the end, he still loves her. The two are about to kiss until Superman aka the God of Strength shows up and pulls Steve away from Diana by the back of his head. Steve isn't just window dressing.

end of spoilers

steve played love interest, just that. one issue that he really plays a role, instead of being background like many other issues. Now if steve don't get the girl again, it will be crap.

[Vaffrey]

2) But neither did Etta, whom I seem to recall all but vanished after the Golden Age.

Ish. She was prominent in the Golden Age, disappeared in the Silver Age, and then returned in the Bronze Age -- first, in the second coming of Kanigher rehash of older stories, second in the back-to-WWII issues reflecting the first season of the Lynda Carter show, and third in the Conway/Thomas soft reboot in the early 80s. Then she was baked into the Perez reboot, assumed more prominence in the Messner-Loebs run, got dumped by Byrne, returned under Simone, and got dumped by Azzarello but a bland nonentity version appeared with Steve in ARGUS stories.

[Tayswift]

It seems kind of unfair to hold some dated writing against Steve. Him getting captured is hardly a bad thing, because then it allows the female hero to rescue her love interest. And just update the origin so they don't fall in love instantly. Unlike some, I didn't have a problem with Azzarello writing Diana as seeing Steve's crash as a call to adventure, not true love. Start them as friends and allies, and develop a romance from there. Fairly easy, and a much better modernization than making Steve a middle aged dude who has nothing to do with her besides the convoluted scenario of having his mother share the same name as her.

Like it or not, human psychology (including the sexual spectrum) is pretty entrenched in Wonder Woman due to Marston. In Supergods, Morrison stated that post-Marston Diana has always seemed like a bland mix between the Virgin Mary and Mary Tyler Moore. While I don't think that's true in every case, he's not entirely wrong either. It's the unique combination of classical myth, girl hero adventure stories, and psychological and sexual themes that make WW what she is. She seems neutered without the last two components. It shouldn't be at the forefront of every story, or even most of them, but I think the ultimate female hero being in touch with her sexuality and it being portrayed as positive would be a good thing.

hardly i can see wonder woman looking steve and already falling in love with him. the story needs some build and time to progress

I always wondered why wonder woman relationships were ended by editorial decisions, I really liked that jimenez and gail tried to show WW sexuality but editorial always messed that up. superman, spiderman, cap america all have romantic lives , but why WW has to be the virginal superhero?
if she said: I'm assexual. I would be ok with her almost blank love life

[Mel Dyer]

So, where Etta's concerned, you can be white or black or fat, ..bu-uuutt, you absolutely CAN'T be fat and black or fat and Etta Candy, at the same time...?

[Tayswift]

So, where Etta's concerned, you can be white or black or fat, ..bu-uuutt, you absolutely CAN'T be fat and black or fat and Etta Candy, at the same time...?

well there is stereotype of being black and fat. But there is actually women that are fat and black, the writer just needs to not let her fall on a stereotype. make etta fun, brave but not the person that everyone laugh at her.
a good example of this being well done is melissa mcarthy

[Outside_85]

Of course Steve isn't going to directly fight Darkseid or hte Anti-Monitor for several reasons. A.) That would be suicide for Steve, 2.) Steve and his team are better suited taking on Parademons or keeping civilians safe, and C.) Steve is a supporting character, not a member of the JL so why would he be fighting the main antagonists of the story? I get that you don't like Johns or anything connected to Wonder Woman that isn't tied to Greek Myth but saying that Steve is MIA is completely inaccurate.

A) Doesn't stop Batman, and all he'd got is slightly better kevlar.
B) His nameless underlings are fine at that job, if you are trying to prove Steve is more than that, this isn't helping
C) Because thats what federal agents do. Or would do if he was actually meant to be something other than scenery.
You're right, I dont like Johns writing, I don't like people fawning over him like hes Jesus. But you are incorrect, I do like other things than Greek myth, I am just not interested in that garbage pile that makes up Diana's contribution to the non-greek myth part, so the less I see of it the better. And perhaps no, Steve isn't completely lost... he's just running around in background or just out of shot.

Steve isn't just window dressing.

If he wasn't he'd have an actual part to play. But you've just explained he doesn't... and ah yes, that scene reminded me why Johns is not your guy if you want romance, like jamming a square peg into a round hole.

[Dr. Poison]

A) Doesn't stop Batman, and all he'd got is slightly better kevlar.
B) His nameless underlings are fine at that job, if you are trying to prove Steve is more than that, this isn't helping
C) Because thats what federal agents do. Or would do if he was actually meant to be something other than scenery.
You're right, I dont like Johns writing, I don't like people fawning over him like hes Jesus. But you are incorrect, I do like other things than Greek myth, I am just not interested in that garbage pile that makes up Diana's contribution to the non-greek myth part, so the less I see of it the better. And perhaps no, Steve isn't completely lost... he's just running around in background or just out of shot.



If he wasn't he'd have an actual part to play. But you've just explained he doesn't... and ah yes, that scene reminded me why Johns is not your guy if you want romance, like jamming a square peg into a round hole.

I thought the scenes Johns wrote when Superman and Wonder Woman got together were beautiful and this comes from someone who didn't want the pair together as a romantic couple beforehand.

As for people worshiping Johns as if he's Jesus, I see the same thing around here with some people and Azzarello so......

[Tayswift]

I thought the scenes Johns wrote when Superman and Wonder Woman got together were beautiful and this comes from someone who didn't want the pair together as a romantic couple beforehand.

As for people worshiping Johns as if he's Jesus, I see the same thing around her with some people and Azzarello so......

well johns scenes were a big homage to stephanie meyer and EL james. Johns wrote it so badly, he put the romance on autopilot.

he wrote mera and aquaman well, barda and mr miracle too.

[SiegePerilous02]

It's only interesting if you are interested in stereotypical depictions thats been turned on their heads. What was endearing back then isn't necessarily endearing now.
Also I am referring to Lois actually having that kind of job in an age where most women were still stuck in the kitchen. While Steve was an emascualted Captain America.

1) Do you want a list, because most seem to do that job just as well, they just dont get to spank Diana. 2) But neither did Etta, whom I seem to recall all but vanished after the Golden Age.

How was Steve an emasculated Captain America? Because his girlfriend is more powerful than him and got to be the main hero? That shouldn't lead to the idea of emasculation. Sometimes I think fans want Diana paired with somebody like Orion or Superman because they're uncomfortable with the idea of her dating a man less powerful than she is. And with Lois, while it was progressive at the time, her occupation isn't considered anything revolutionary to today's audience. Their respective jobs aren't really an important factor when comparing them.

1. A list would be nice, because beyond the current two of Zola and Hessia (and who knows how long they'll last), nobody else really comes to mind, and they're certainly not showing their faces at present. And even if Etta isn't occupying the role in the main comic series, we have two other comic series and maybe a movie in the near future in which she WILL have it.

2. After the original stories, Etta appeared in the Bronze Age, off and on in Post-Crisis canon, the Lynda Carter show, the godawful WW tv pilot, and is considered important enough by Morrison to be used in Earth One. Keep in mind that the majority of WW characters that aren't Hippolyta or a Greek God haven't even managed that much.

You're right, I dont like Johns writing, I don't like people fawning over him like hes Jesus.


If he wasn't he'd have an actual part to play. But you've just explained he doesn't... and ah yes, that scene reminded me why Johns is not your guy if you want romance, like jamming a square peg into a round hole.

Do people really fawn over him like he's Jesus? At least on this site, there seems be a heatlhy mix of appreciation and criticism. Morrison is the one who seems to be treated like he's the second coming of Christ.

Supes/Diana was awful, but Arthur/Mera is awesome. I think he did a fine job Wally and Linda too. Of course, romance in superhero comics isn't that amazing in general.

[Tayswift]

How was Steve an emasculated Captain America? Because his girlfriend is more powerful than him and got to be the main hero? That shouldn't lead to the idea of emasculation. Sometimes I think fans want Diana paired with somebody like Orion or Superman because they're uncomfortable with the idea of her dating a man less powerful than she is. And with Lois, while it was progressive at the time, her occupation isn't considered anything revolutionary to today's audience. Their respective jobs aren't really an important factor when comparing them.

I like Orion because of his personality, being a new god of war play well with old gods and WW mythology. No gonna lie, his powers make me think twice about pairing him with WW.

I think a man stepping down and letting a woman that is more capable than him doing the job is pretty great and not emasculating. marston wanted to show trevor as competent but if menaces out of his league he should step down and let WW do the job and being ok with it and loving his loved one being the star, not him.

[Nyssane]

I like Orion because of his personality, being a new god of war play well with old gods and WW mythology. No gonna lie, his powers make me think twice about pairing him with WW.

I think a man stepping down and letting a woman that is more capable than him doing the job is pretty great and not emasculating. marston wanted to show trevor as competent but if menaces out of his league he should step down and let WW do the job and being ok with it and loving his loved one being the star, not him.

Not gonna lie, poor choice of words.