Rumbler's League Fall/Winter 2015 Week Three - Cleric of Hell's Brigade vs Dalak

[Dalak]

But in contrast, the Rabbit's foot only worked with Dean and Sam in a same room instance. Dean being able to beat those guys as they comically took themselves out, etc.....

Perhaps they Foot worked over a longer distance because they had an image of Sam or it had a connection to him as a previous user.

When the Foot is taken from a user, they get Bad luck to the same degree of the Good luck they had. The guys were looking for a place to eat moments after Sam lost the Foot and they found the picture. It had the sound effect of magic-lucky stuff happening when they found it, and they were many miles away at that point.

The TK thing is an issue, but again, can he target people at speed with it is the issue. I fully acknowledge he can do it if they were standing still, but can he do it (locate/target them) while they are on the move?

. . . I don't even understand why you are asking this question. At the Speed Cap, there's no way they can move faster than he can perceive, and vice versa. Regular Xavier had no issue keeping in TP contact with people who were moving in the Blackbird or walking around a common area, but if you want to nitpick Strangefate has no feats for that specifically. I'm pretty sure that'd be no particularly powerful facet to transfer over, especially after Banshee. If you want to get technical maybe the Banshee would interact with the Whale Mutations and thus it can work at speed.

And a nitpick here - Maxima is said to do her stuff on the move, but is never stated to actually move anywhere at all and nothing she's doing requires any moving.

My issue with Strangefate is partially my fault for not looking closer at the character. I'm not mad at you, or the fact he's in the League, I'm mad at myself for not paying closer attention and not bringing this issue up earlier. Sorry if I got a bit hot there.

But in contrast, one of the last times I used the Subtle Knife (many Leagues ago) I used it for half the League incorrectly and got smashed in a fight against a duo (can't recall who, but they had Prairie Ghost and Super Ragman on their team) when they pointed out the Knife did not work the way I'd been using it. I wasn't hand waved the way I had been using it, or the way it had been used by others, and I was stuck with a weapon that wasn't as useful as I thought. It sucks but it does happen sometimes.

Did nixing the Subtle Knife totally fubar any chance for your team to defend against Magic or Mind assault after it had been used for an entire Season? And I remember House used to be a major-league nitpicker as well. I wonder what happened with him.

I don't know man, it's kind of unfair both ways isn't it? Your character doesn't have to use feats from his own run, but gets feats from two other ubers? But then you get screwed out of an uber powerful magic user and get stuck with a somewhat powerful magic user.

When he has no quantifiable feats of consequence in his own run, and he can't call upon the folks that give Strange his serious feats I don't see how it's unfair. At this point I've probably lost the Auto-Shields that give Strange his 10 hood no matter what comes from this. I also don't really see what I've ever pulled from Fate's powerset as the only real difference between him and Strange is one has autoshields and the other has Super Strength & Durability. Blasphemy I know, but that's how I've felt about those 2 pricks.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

My point was more that he'd have to find them/locate them in the battkefield/sky while they were on the move. Not an easy thing to do.


However, again, caught in time stop. Can't TK anyone.

[Dalak]

My point was more that he'd have to find them/locate them in the battkefield/sky while they were on the move. Not an easy thing to do.


However, again, caught in time stop. Can't TK anyone.

If Maxima wasn't a psychic beacon not even trying to hide it might be hard to find her. It's also pretty hard to move far before someone finishes thinking a bit. BTW If Max can quick-draw Chuck, he's quickdrawing Maxima and Mags too and thus Doomgiver reflects the Time Stop or Luck busts the Watch.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Well the guy did survive where every other amalgam without their components disappeared, that says something too.

Still you bring up a valid point any 'Vishanti' he had are dead and not the standard ones so he wouldn't be able to call on them.

Like I said, not knocking his potency in the slightest. He just, by virtue of his origins, can't do some of the things that Classic 616 Strange is capable of. Just one of those annoyances, really.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

If Maxima wasn't a psychic beacon not even trying to hide it might be hard to find her. It's also pretty hard to move far before someone finishes thinking a bit. BTW If Max can quick-draw Chuck, he's quickdrawing Maxima and Mags too and thus Doomgiver reflects the Time Stop or Luck busts the Watch.

I already argued that DG won't effect the time stop due to the intent. Plus, the overall field effect against one localized area argument again.

And if Chuck is using psychic powers to locate her (shining like a beacon), he might get a glimpse of the Angel. It may not fry him like it did to other psychics, but it may well be enough to stun him a moment.

[Dalak]

I already argued that DG won't effect the time stop due to the intent. Plus, the overall field effect against one localized area argument again.

And if Chuck is using psychic powers to locate her (shining like a beacon), he might get a glimpse of the Angel. It may not fry him like it did to other psychics, but it may well be enough to stun him a moment.

The Intent argument falls apart when his intent isn't limited to Strangefate (He's not going to stop fighting if he goes down), and Aphrodite's effect is AoE but he was just the only one there.

Looking into the mind would cause any problems, and Chuck's not doing that.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

The Intent argument falls apart when his intent isn't limited to Strangefate (He's not going to stop fighting if he goes down), and Aphrodite's effect is AoE but he was just the only one there.

Looking into the mind would cause any problems, and Chuck's not doing that.

Venus' aura was directed at one kid (in the wagon in like, Book 2 or something), IIRC. I may be wrong, but it was never an AoE effect. And Max's intent, first and foremost, is directed at Chuck. Again, if the intent is to blow up the city, does DG reflect the damage if it's an afterthought/bystander? And if so, how much?

[Dalak]

Venus' aura was directed at one kid (in the wagon in like, Book 2 or something), IIRC. I may be wrong, but it was never an AoE effect. And Max's intent, first and foremost, is directed at Chuck. Again, if the intent is to blow up the city, does DG reflect the damage if it's an afterthought/bystander? And if so, how much?

I couldn't find that in looking for Aphrodite in those books (Not Venus strangely), and this would be the first ever "Look on me and love me" powers I know of that isn't AoE/Anyone who sees them.

Max's intent isn't restricted to Strangefate as you didn't specify it in the strat and if he was solo he'd fight my team minus Strangefate. Having a first target isn't the same thing at all and here it matters.

E: Oh yeah, that still doesn't count the Luck which can affect both Mags and Max at the range.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Even if it did reach that far, I doubt it's bell rings and the entire place is saturated with luck. I would imagine it's an aura that expands outward myself. Same as Estrecca's Death Aura. It does have to expand outward, it doesn't start pre-arena filled up.

[Dalak]

Even if it did reach that far, I doubt it's bell rings and the entire place is saturated with luck. I would imagine it's an aura that expands outward myself. Same as Estrecca's Death Aura. It does have to expand outward, it doesn't start pre-arena filled up.

Why are you trying to place arbitrary limits on the Luck which are not even hinted at in the source material?

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Why are you trying to place arbitrary limits on the Luck which are not even hinted at in the source material?

I'm not, really. I'm trying to understand its limits. There are two parts to the Rabbits foot, one of which you sort of twisted now that I looked it up.

It works for Sam and two guys take themselves out in a room. It helps Kubrick and Creedy track Sam down, but only after Sam lost the thing and the curse started working (Bella, then Dean had it at the time Sam got tracked down).

There is literally no evidence of Good Luck happening further away than several yards. The bad luck curse? Sure, Sam got effected after handling it and losing it.

So, having looked all that up, it seems clear that the bad luck curse effects things at a longer distance (makes sense, really. Curses are like that and range matter not) whereas the good fortune seemed close at hand.

Ergo, the Luck you are attempting to send my way won't work. Max never touched the thing so he's already not cursed, and he's not in close enough proximity to be effected regardless.


At least, that's my take now that I looked the episode back up. It's not an aura thing like Estrecca's death aura. It functions differently, it seems.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

http://supernatural.wikia.com/wiki/B..._at_Black_Rock


According to this synopsis, all the good luck stuff happened within a sphere of influence around the holder of the foot.
All the bad stuff happens after the foot is lost, and this seems to have a larger reach (drawing Kubrick and Creedy to Sam while Dean or Bella had the foot).

So how exactly, with this info, is your luck interfering with Max's Watch when he's so far away from you? That's my point, Dalak. You haven't proved the good luck extends that far, only the ill of the curse.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Well, whatever happens in these last few hours, I can say this: I've not debated that much before ever in a League Match. Not even when KJ and I would go head to head, or even against HouseSolo. This has been fun, and I enjoyed how tough it's been to crack this nut.

Dalak, you do have a good team, especially your Servo combo. It's nasty. I'm sorry if I aggravated you over nitpicking Strangefate, but it seems important to hammer out all he can and cannot do, especially if he has ALL of Stranges magics (Crimson Bands, I'm looking at you).


Regardless, goodnight and good luck, Dalak. It's almost four in the morning here, and I need my sleep. I'm off to see Star Wars tomorrow.

[Dalak]

I'm not, really. I'm trying to understand its limits. There are two parts to the Rabbits foot, one of which you sort of twisted now that I looked it up.

It works for Sam and two guys take themselves out in a room. It helps Kubrick and Creedy track Sam down, but only after Sam lost the thing and the curse started working (Bella, then Dean had it at the time Sam got tracked down).

There is literally no evidence of Good Luck happening further away than several yards. The bad luck curse? Sure, Sam got effected after handling it and losing it.

So, having looked all that up, it seems clear that the bad luck curse effects things at a longer distance (makes sense, really. Curses are like that and range matter not) whereas the good fortune seemed close at hand.

Ergo, the Luck you are attempting to send my way won't work. Max never touched the thing so he's already not cursed, and he's not in close enough proximity to be effected regardless.


At least, that's my take now that I looked the episode back up. It's not an aura thing like Estrecca's death aura. It functions differently, it seems.

It explicitly says the bad luck is just as bad as the good luck was good, so if you are going to be picky about this. Also what part of me saying that the bad luck for Sam reached out to the guys stalking him from miles away is twisting it?

You are the one putting limits on how far away this luck and that luck can function, trying to say it has to saturate an area, separating out the luck when they are explicitly the same according to Bobby, and otherwise trying to restrict this Luck in ways not even hinted at in the episode. You might as well say luck can only work in Futurama-universe when expressed by a septuple-leaf clover for all the same reasoning.

[Dalak]

Well, whatever happens in these last few hours, I can say this: I've not debated that much before ever in a League Match. Not even when KJ and I would go head to head, or even against HouseSolo. This has been fun, and I enjoyed how tough it's been to crack this nut.

Dalak, you do have a good team, especially your Servo combo. It's nasty. I'm sorry if I aggravated you over nitpicking Strangefate, but it seems important to hammer out all he can and cannot do, especially if he has ALL of Stranges magics (Crimson Bands, I'm looking at you).


Regardless, goodnight and good luck, Dalak. It's almost four in the morning here, and I need my sleep. I'm off to see Star Wars tomorrow.

Frustrating yet at times enjoyable, and I definitely did feel blindsided by the Strangefate angle. As mentioned above he has no Cytorrak/Anyone to call to anymore. He might be able to fake it to an extent thanks to the Gauntlet, but I'm not going to gamble on it without specific buys I may or may not snag.

I may be a night owl but 5am is usually my cutoff so here's a brief post to end things from me before I try and vote in the other matches.


-Maxima is locked up with the Improbability drive in order to space-warp Fighter away and counter Tom while Strangefate (Sans everything if you feel that way) only has to TK 2 brains with his Banshee and Gauntlet boosts (Both very significant solo) at a minimum to stop 2 major assaults on my team.

-The Time Stop is countered either by Doomgiver reflecting it or the Luck nullifying it in a teeny way as I described (Busted spring, slipped grip, etc). Magneto is also vulnerable to the fickle lash of Luck being a machine.

-Max's 'intent' isn't specific to Strangefate with nothing felt for the other team members as it wasn't written that way, so no intent argument holds water.

-Strangefate was a Sorcerer Supreme level magic user when he was priced at 10, when he was used for a whole season, and when he was drafted again by me. It just isn't reasonable to assume he can't cast any decent magic or defend himself and the team as he needs to in this match while boosted by the Gauntlet when the character studied magic and mind power enough to surpass his master Nabu.

-There's been a few conflicting posts about where Max's Time Stop plays out. As far as I can tell if he goes after the thought actions of Maxima, Mags, Tom, and Chuck, then either shields are up or the Luck/Doomgiver combo will prevent it. If his thumb is mightier than their thoughts, then Luck/Doomgiver combo will prevent it and possibly freeze Hell's Brigade as well as himself.

-It's not like I try to have these matches hinge on luck or uncertain objects/characters but it always winds up this way doesn't it?