Dan Slott Killed Peter Parker - This Time For Good

[esskay]

I like some of Dan Slott's Spider-Man work a lot. He's a good writer, no question. I really appreciate the work he puts into long-term plotting, and every issue seems well crafted. There are few lazy pages. His dialogue is really tight. The outcomes of his BIG stories (Superior, Spider-Verse) are kind of lame, but this is more a problem of the genre than with Slott himself: most high-concept films/comics/books fluff the ending because the setups allow no logical conclusion. There's nothing to do but have some big senseless things happen and that's the end. Spider-Verse had this group of unbeatable godlike creature who couldn't fail to kill all the Spider-People, and then somehow, in a few pages, they just got beat somehow. Doc Ock gave up being Spider-Man just because. I know this viewpoint bugs Dan Slott, because he'll always respond pointing out some panel or subplot that explains everything, but it never does really, and at the same time I'm fine with this.

I'm happy with a lot of the stuff some people moan about. I'm fine with Peter and MJ not being married. In fact I completely agree that it's more interesting for Peter to be single, but my preference would've been a divorce rather than the ridiculous Mephisto thing that really did ruin everything, but that's nothing to do with Slott. The whole Superior thing was genius, until the end. It's cool with me that Peter is now a billionaire entrepreneur, though big parts of it don't make sense.

However, I would agree that the Spider-Man I'm reading now is not the real Spider-Man, for two main reasons:

1. Action. Because of Spider-Man's specific powers, he carries out fights in different ways to other superheroes. There are hundred of panels of action sequences I remember because Spidey was doing moves only he could do, but I can't remember a single one in recent years. He just stands there and punches someone or, worse, he's in some kind of vehicle. This problem reached its nadir in Spider-Verse, where there were loads of panels filled with dozens of Spider-People just standing around. Just standing up, like regular heroes. The amazing opportunities this story presented for invention, with some hanging upside down from the ceiling, some on webs, some crawling on the ground, some in hammocks, yet... they were just standing around. You could blame the artists, but come on, Slott should be able to put some instruction in his script like "dozens of Spider-People having a meeting, doing funny spider things".

2. Thought. Turn to any page of any great Spider-Man writer and you'll see Spidey thinking. He used to do a lot of this in thought balloons, but then I guess they got corny so it became captions with some kind of interior monologue. Either way, the story of Spider-Man is the story of his thoughts. If wasn't planning, he was worrying, he was anxious, there was always something going on in there. Not now. How does he feel about Doc Ock taking over his body? I dunno. What about the PhD he didn't earn, does he plan to keep it? I guess so. What were his feelings about the weird sex thing going on with Silk? I dunno. The Spider-Verse thing must have freaked him out, no? No comment. How comfortable is he in his current role as CEO of a global company? I dunno. To a large extent, we just watch one thing happen after another, and it could be an automaton in there (or still Doc Ock) for all the difference it makes. It's just someone in a Spider-suit, standing up, having things happen to them.

In short, there were many points for me when I was really loving Slott's run (early Superior) and just tolerating it (so many team-ups), but now I hope he wraps up this (genuinely intriguing) red-suit plot and goes off to do brilliant work on a character who he has more of a feeling for.

[boots]

bro i haven't read spiderman since the clone saga and i'm pretty sure he invented web shooters, webbing, spider tracers, and a bunch of other stuff.

bro. all these years…i feel duped. you know what that means? it means there might be some in-universe logic for how peter could have capitalised on his genius to become a successful millionaire. disgusting.

[boots]

1. Action. Because of Spider-Man's specific powers, he carries out fights in different ways to other superheroes. There are hundred of panels of action sequences I remember because Spidey was doing moves only he could do, but I can't remember a single one in recent years. He just stands there and punches someone or, worse, he's in some kind of vehicle. This problem reached its nadir in Spider-Verse, where there were loads of panels filled with dozens of Spider-People just standing around. Just standing up, like regular heroes. The amazing opportunities this story presented for invention, with some hanging upside down from the ceiling, some on webs, some crawling on the ground, some in hammocks, yet... they were just standing around. You could blame the artists, but come on, Slott should be able to put some instruction in his script like "dozens of Spider-People having a meeting, doing funny spider things".

i can see that- there was room for more inventiveness. definitely. but not fulfilling that potential doesn’t make him “not real spidey”. beheading people with a broadsword probably would though.

2. Thought. Turn to any page of any great Spider-Man writer and you'll see Spidey thinking. He used to do a lot of this in thought balloons, but then I guess they got corny so it became captions with some kind of interior monologue. Either way, the story of Spider-Man is the story of his thoughts. If wasn't planning, he was worrying, he was anxious, there was always something going on in there. Not now. How does he feel about Doc Ock taking over his body? I dunno. What about the PhD he didn't earn, does he plan to keep it? I guess so. What were his feelings about the weird sex thing going on with Silk? I dunno. The Spider-Verse thing must have freaked him out, no? No comment. How comfortable is he in his current role as CEO of a global company? I dunno. To a large extent, we just watch one thing happen after another, and it could be an automaton in there (or still Doc Ock) for all the difference it makes. It's just someone in a Spider-suit, standing up, having things happen to them.

does anyone use thought balloons anymore? this is a stylistic concern. thoughts in general these days are ascertained from between the lines and through action, a lot like film. again, it doesn’t make him “not real spidey”.
thought balloons were more about spoon feeding the audience, a passive way to engage. i don’t miss them.

[Aura Blaize]

We may not know how much of Dan Slott’s run was dictated to him or if he was solely responsible for the events which have led to Amazing Spider-Man vol. 4 but there is one thing I can say with certainty… he just might be Peter Parker’s most formidable enemy and he is winning. In a series littered with other writer’s attempts to do away with the status quo (i.e. the Clone Saga, ‘One More Day’, etc.) the latest ‘revision’ has done what no one has been able to do before. That is to kill Peter Parker.

Dan Slott has done this before. Most recently during the Superior Spider-Man run. I personally enjoyed the series, but Peter was dead. We always knew he would be back but upon his resurrection the Peter that came back wasn’t our Peter. He hasn’t been our Peter for years. And now, with this new doppleganger traipsing the world as a billionaire inventor with a superhero bodyguard, Peter Stark...sorry... I mean Peter Parker, is gone.

Does it really matter? After all this is a comic book right? Of course it matters. Peter Parker was more than a costumed hero. For the first few decades he represented what it felt like to not be the popular guy. I wasn’t popular as a kid. I wanted to be. Who doesn’t? For a few hours though, I could lose my childhood, teenage, and young adult anxieties in the pages of a book whose protagonist felt like I did. He had money troubles, girl troubles, guilt, and the lack of confidence many of us face on a day to day basis. When he put on the costume it was the only time he felt in control of his life. He cloaked his nervousness with humor in the midst of battle but there was a demeanor there he never had in his ‘real life’. The character was as much an escape for him as it was for us. He was heroic. He saved lives in the panels and the young lives that eagerly devoured them. When he took the mask off his worries returned. His problems were our problems. He was smart, intelligent, awkward, caring, kind, and clumsy. He was not Flash Thompson nor would ever be. And every once in awhile he got the girl but mostly because they came to him. He had just as hard a time approaching girls as many of us do at his age.

That Peter is gone. We are now supposed to believe that awkward young man who only wanted to turn back the hands of time to stop a burglar is now a confident billionaire. A billionaire that SHIELD turns to at the same time the paparazzi's cameras flash. Even Jonah has lost his bite. Spider-Man is no longer a public menace or the hero who selflessly swings from building to building with the sole purpose of saving all of the Uncle Ben’s in the city. He is now someone with a gadget for every occasion and a confidence that rivals that of Captain America. Even his jokes fall flat. It’s not because they aren’t there. It’s because the fears and anxieties they once hid are long gone. And so is Peter.

Unless Peter wakes up from it all to find he’s been dreaming all along there is no coming back from this one folks. Peter is finally dead and I for one miss him greatly.

PS - Dan, if you ever read this, I admire your knowledge of the past and your ability to mine it for connections. You simply failed to understand Peter.

Everyone has a right to their opinions and all, but seriously, aren't you tired of reading about the same character? The people who want peter to remain the "relatable loser". Honestly I think him being as intelligent as he is and not going anywhere is a greater disservice to the character. He's finally making his mark on the world and making a difference as PETER PARKER. THAT is more important IMO

[jimishim12]

TL;DR, I hate Spidey for being a wish fufillment but like his loophole logic as a underdog despite his contradicting fortunes as a hero with unrelateable things like a hot super model wife, bffs with cosmic adventurers, gods, and many sexy hot women, tons of spider magic prochecies as the chosen one, and he's apparently the greatest superhero ever in the future, so what sort of hero are you talking about OP?

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

TL;DR, I hate Spidey for being a wish fufillment but like his loophole logic as a underdog despite his contradicting fortunes as a hero with unrelateable things like a hot super model wife, bffs with cosmic adventurers, gods, and many sexy hot women, tons of spider magic prochecies as the chosen one, and he's apparently the greatest superhero ever in the future, so what sort of hero are you talking about OP?

He married his next door neighbor, I'm sure some can relate to that, or marrying the daughter of the best friend of one of your parents.

[Zeitgeist]

No - that's actually not an alternative. He did progress. He worked through his guilt over Gwen's death to the point that he could engage in a relationship with MJ. They got married. They had a baby (or whatever happened there), and Peter matured. He was still awkward and made mistake and lacked confidence except when he put on the outfit. The 'archetype' (which really isn't an archetype) is what made Spider-Man one of the , if not the, most important and popular characters over the last 40 years. I would wager that if the character being introduced in Volume 4 was the first time we had ever seen him the series would not last very long. You're own argument about archetype is why you are still reading it (yes - I am putting words in your mouth but it is predicated on the words you used). We are all hoping to glimpse a hint of the old Peter in these new stories.

Archetype: An original model or type after which other similar things are patterned. I can call it zero-point Spidey if that pleases?

Either way as per your reply, that's progression in one direction, sure. Progress isn't just a straight line A to B on one axis, however. You can progress along many paths, and what happening here is a natural evolution from a different aspect of the character of Peter Parker, namely his aptitude as a technological and scientific genius, which is very much "old Peter". I would argue that many facets of Spider-Man's personality are still very present, just that different sides of it now are being highlighted, which is often mistaken as OH GOD NO, CHAAANGE!.
Beyond all that, have you ever thought this may be a story designed as a cautionary tale of what happens when Spider-Man bites off more than he can chew? Who can say what Slott has planned, but it's not uncommon for a character to be taken into new ground with more power than they're accustomed, only to learn that they've lost sight of themselves. We're only 3-4 issues into this new run but if you want to preemptively call it then that's your prerogative, I guess...

[Mister Mets]

I think the current status quo is interesting, but I wouldn't want it to be the norm. But it's probably not meant to be.

Spider-Man's also an enduring enough character that if one writer does a terrible job another can fix things.

[Phantom Roxas]

Excellent thread. I especially like how you discussed how you connected with Peter as a character, as it shows the perspective you're coming from. Peter hasn't developed from one type of character to another. It's not a progression; it's swapping one character out for another with bridging the gap between the two.

I think the current status quo is interesting, but I wouldn't want it to be the norm. But it's probably not meant to be.

And you know this how?

[Dog]

And you know this how?

Did you believe Superior would last forever, too? Or "The Other"? Or member of the Future Foundation?

[cyberhubbs]

I'd say the whole "probably" makes it a guess, educated or otherwise. But maybe Roxas wants it to stick around and doesn't want Mets to jinx things.

[jimishim12]

He married his next door neighbor, I'm sure some can relate to that, or marrying the daughter of the best friend of one of your parents.

Who justc o happens to be one of the most beatiful women in Marvel comics to the point where her gorgeousness is a big element for selling pinups of female heroes as a fanservice ploy despite not being a heroine herself. Face it, not everything in spiderman is logically relatable and realistically grounded, Peter is just as much as impossible as superman in its versatility and plotting devices as is any hero is

[Dan Slott]

Peter hasn't developed from one type of character to another. It's not a progression.

From ASM #648-#697, you see 49 issues of Peter Parker working for Max Model, his idol, at Horizon Labs. Developing all-new kinds of tech, gaining fame and recognition for his work...

...and then ASM #698-SSM #19, Doc Ock takes Pete's place, ruins those relationships, severs his ties with Horizon...

...then in SSM #20-#SSM #30, Ock establishes Parker Industries, makes "himself" his own boss and forges ahead.

...then in SSM #31-ASM Vol.2 #18, Peter Parker comes back, tries to carry on in the company Doc made, and has a hard time of it...

Then there's the 8 month gap that all Marvel books went through after SECRET WARS... (which will be revealed at a later date)...
...and as of ANAD ASM #1 on... Peter Parker has finally gotten his act together and is running the company his way. He's mended fences with Max & Horizon. He's using his company to forward causes Uncle Ben and Aunt May would approve of. And he's successfully using his creativity to invent things to make the world a better place.

Considering that all of these things have happened progressively over the course of 100+ issues, that kind of is the definition of "progression".
But, as someone who routinely rips into the book for a myriad of reasons (both here and in places like the CrawlSpace), I understand how you'd like to look past that. ;-)

[Phantom Roxas]

Did you believe Superior would last forever, too? Or "The Other"? Or member of the Future Foundation?

I didn't think those first two would last forever, but I would've been content with him staying with the Future Foundation.

I'd say the whole "probably" makes it a guess, educated or otherwise. But maybe Roxas wants it to stick around and doesn't want Mets to jinx things.

Nah, I don't want it to stick around. I just don't think there's enough to point to it not being meant as the norm.

[cyberhubbs]

I didn't think those first two would last forever, but I would've been content with him staying with the Future Foundation.



Nah, I don't want it to stick around. I just don't think there's enough to point to it not being meant as the norm.

I think the fact that Peter's a worldwide success points toward it not being the norm. And none of the status quos being all that permanent lately, whether folks wanted them to be or not. Kinda hard to see how you would consider it being permanent, honestly.