Batman and Robin Eternal #13 Preview / Discussion

[heyevaxx]

Gorgeous cover. It's great having a lead character tell a story mostly by the art and dialog from others.

I was impressed that Cass somehow managed to get the Argus patrol to fly over the giant mine pit. Either she has some non-fighting skills or someone else helped her. Overall, a nice explanation on how we got to the end of BRE12 with blood on her hands.

The recent Batman flashback was pure mana from heaven for huge Cass fans like me. JTIV is like the anti-Beechen: someone who picks up a character but first does their homework.

I don't mind Cass not finishing the Cain fight; she's proven she's tier1 and can probably take him. "Um, cool bat...?" Harper's uncertainty with Cass wearing a blood mask was cute. And Cass running to hug her was sweet.

Overall, a fantastic issue. I'm excited to see the nuke resolution and how David Cain will fit into their escape or will he die.

We're half way through the series and I'm much happier with BRE than Batman Eternal. There's more focus without too many extras. We did get some Bane and Az was introduced but overall it's tight.

I agree that Cass is shining but lots of fans were awaiting her return so I'm sure the writers don't want to blow it. Let's face it: Dick has his own popular title and will be fine after BRE. DC is trying to build new characters with Cass, Harper, Stephanie (I hope!), and JPV. And I think Dick, Jason, and Tim have gotten decent time anyway.

PS - A big thanks to the colorist, Dean White, for using brown (not blue!) for Cass' eye color. In the last 2 BRE the colorist, John Rauch, used blue and it was so jarring to see it, especially on the last page of BRE12 where her blue eyes really stand out. I hope the BRE TPB is color corrected to brown for her eyes throughout.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

Lol, Cass is taking the spot light away from Dick on a story about him, and its her fault? one character is not to blame for being more interesting than other...she has even been nerfed for Dick to look good! issue 3 - Cass needed Dick to save her from Jason...issue 8 - Cass was getting beat up by a bunch of bailarinas and needed to be saved by Grayson...issue 13 - Cass due to plot-purposes feels the need of running away from someone who she dominated on issues 2 and 5 so that Grayson and Harper could save her, lol, i thind those ocasions so funny, lol...If this was a Cass solo, she would crap on all of those people on all 3 ocasions, and it would be stated on her throghs how much she held back while doing it, but because its here, she needs saving from anyone, in 5 issues from now she will need saving after getting beat up by Damian, lol.
Btw, even Harper stands out more than Grayson, lol, and that's saying something!
Look, i'm not trying to make fun of the character, just the people complaning, bc we all know that if Grayson was owning everybody 24/7 no-one would complain, besides the only issues that we can actually say that were truly about Cass were issues 11 and 13, which are/were the back-story of a fan-favourite returning character.

NO one is blaming Cass, stop this fan war you have been continuing since Batman and Robin Eternal has started. Its about the writing not the characters, every story will get critiqued and not every event is a classic. The event like the last has shown the weakness in the weekly format and why it needed to be cut down to 26 issues. Imagine if it were another 52? No one and especially Dick Grayson fans have some deep hatred for Cass but want a better written story like Batman fans did not feel Batman Eternal lived up to its billing. The story has suffered from juggling multiple story lines once again. Where is Stephanie Brown? How does what Red Hood and Red Robin tie into all this and his Tim with Mother? What is Dick Grayson doing besides ushering other characters once again. Like you said yourself that Dick should not be in this and Cass should be leading because that is how the story has been geared to from the start. He is not with Mother in any way shape or form compared to Cass, Harper, and Tim. They should have not tried to work everything into the past and make a connection to everyone because it does not stick.

[Kurtzberg]

It was one of the better issues so far, though personally I still don't find this story to be that engaging though to be honest. Also while the art and writing were better this issue, the unevenness of this series is grating. I'm glad others seem to be enjoying this though, that's something at least.

[oasis1313]

Nobody blames Cass for anything. It's DC continuing to give work to Tynion that's the problem.

[BohemiaDrinker]

So, David Cain reprimanded Cass by "giving long speeches"?

Tinyon is trying to ape Beechen or something?

Other than that, good issue, but it felt too light. I expected more from Dick and Harper, and at this point Damian's absence is starting to bug me.

[KrustyKid]

Another enjoyable issue

[Soldy]

Good issue. Bruce and Cass scene was very well done.

[Laevatein]

So, David Cain reprimanded Cass by "giving long speeches"?

I'll try to be charitable and say that maybe the speeches were "translations" of body language.

[Aahz]

Lol, Cass is taking the spot light away from Dick on a story about him, and its her fault?

No people are complaining because "Batman and Robin Eternal" was iirc said, to be about some big mystery from Dicks time as Robin that connects all the Robins, and to be a celebration of Dick 75th anniversary and his legacy.
But sofar the whole mystery seems mostly to be about Cass and Harper.
And a lot of people were already fearing that this would happen when it was announced that Cass and Harper would be main characters of in this event.

How does what Red Hood and Red Robin tie into all this and his Tim with Mother?

I think that the "mother" Tim was talking with in issue 4 was Janet Drake, who informed him about Dicks arrival, and not Mother.

[bat_girl_cc]

NO one is blaming Cass, stop this fan war you have been continuing since Batman and Robin Eternal has started. Its about the writing not the characters, every story will get critiqued and not every event is a classic. The event like the last has shown the weakness in the weekly format and why it needed to be cut down to 26 issues. Imagine if it were another 52? No one and especially Dick Grayson fans have some deep hatred for Cass but want a better written story like Batman fans did not feel Batman Eternal lived up to its billing. The story has suffered from juggling multiple story lines once again. Where is Stephanie Brown? How does what Red Hood and Red Robin tie into all this and his Tim with Mother? What is Dick Grayson doing besides ushering other characters once again. Like you said yourself that Dick should not be in this and Cass should be leading because that is how the story has been geared to from the start. He is not with Mother in any way shape or form compared to Cass, Harper, and Tim. They should have not tried to work everything into the past and make a connection to everyone because it does not stick.

I'm not starting any fan-war, not do i want to, i actually like Dick Grayson, and despite having shown my critics towards some issues, i wouldn't being saying that a series suck, because my favourite character can't stand out more than the others, plus the way people say it, seems like they have a problem with the other characters.
What has Dick Grayson done? well, he got usb device from Cass who had Batman himself telling her to find Grayson and give it to him which was the starng point of this story, he's leading the whole mission against The Mother, he already met the Mother in person who's apparently interested in him, he's the center of the main mistery on the whole series about which Robin did Batman bought? and he did he or did not?, he looked bad (admitedly) on issues 1 and 2 but after those he saved Cass on issue 3 he saved Cass and Harper on issue 8 and saved Cass (again) on issue 13, he's been on nearly all issues and flasbacks every since the weekly started, what do you people want more?...Cass had 2 freackin issues dedicated to her which were her origin for god's sake can't she have that?
Also, i wasn't the one who said that Dick shouldn't be in this, it was other user, and Dick should be in this, it's about him, and its not Cass, Harper or anyone else's fault that he hasn't been the one standing out more.

[bat_girl_cc]

No people are complaining because "Batman and Robin Eternal" was iirc said, to be about some big mystery from Dicks time as Robin that connects all the Robins, and to be a celebration of Dick 75th anniversary and his legacy.
But sofar the whole mystery seems mostly to be about Cass and Harper.
And a lot of people were already fearing that this would happen when it was announced that Cass and Harper would be main characters of in this event.

Not at all! the main mstery is about Batman, Dick Grayson and the other Robins, as you said, Cass and David are a side-plot IRRC, almost as much as Jason Tim and Azrael, we were shown The Mother herself in the past saying that she didn't knew that David "made" Cass and she didn't aproved it, she has no confirmed main relevancy to the main-plot, a-side from Batman meeting her in the past and giving her a usb device for her to give to Grayson.
Harper its just there, she has also no confirmed main relevancy to the main plot, which it's about if Batman bought or not a Robin from The Mother and was he Dick Grayson?
A-side from that, Dick has had more panel time than anyone else in this series, as he should, he isn't the one standing out more, but that's hardly the writting teams fault.

[MidTierHero]

Not at all! the main mstery is about Batman, Dick Grayson and the other Robins, as you said, Cass and David are a side-plot IRRC, almost as much as Jason Tim and Azrael, we were shown The Mother herself in the past saying that she didn't knew that David "made" Cass and she didn't aproved it, she has no confirmed main relevancy to the main-plot, a-side from Batman meeting her in the past and giving her a usb device for her to give to Grayson.
Harper its just there, she has also no confirmed main relevancy to the main plot, which it's about if Batman bought or not a Robin from The Mother and was he Dick Grayson?
A-side from that, Dick has had more panel time than anyone else in this series, as he should, he isn't the one standing out more, but that's hardly the writting teams fault.

Whose fault is it?

[Rakiduam]

Whose fault is it?

Well, artist, editors... the whole creative team really.

[Aahz]

Not at all! the main mstery is about Batman, Dick Grayson and the other Robins, as you said, Cass and David are a side-plot IRRC, almost as much as Jason Tim and Azrael, we were shown The Mother herself in the past saying that she didn't knew that David "made" Cass and she didn't aproved it, she has no confirmed main relevancy to the main-plot, a-side from Batman meeting her in the past and giving her a usb device for her to give to Grayson.

It's about some mistake Batman made and Dick has to find out (since Batman apparently just put the whole story on a USB drive), but it appart from this he isn't realy connected with mother in the way he was connected with the Court of Owls.

Dick might be in the flashbacks but he is totally out of the main plot of the flashbacks, which is about what happened between mother and Dick.

Cass on the other Hand is much closer connected with Mother and seems to be the one how knows what is going (even if she can't tell anybody) and is more cenral to the story. You could totally tell this story without Dick but not without Cass.

And Based on the solicitations the will come something about Harper Background too.

Everything that can go wrong does in both the past and the present! Batman spent years believing Mother was dead…and when you see their blood-soaked confrontation, you’ll know why! Now that she’s returned in the modern day, Batman’s allies will find themselves under siege from a world-destroying weapon they never saw coming! And on top of everything…Harper Row learns a devastating secret that will change her life forever—and potentially make her the most dangerous foe the Robins have ever faced!

[ZuLuLu]

I get the complaints that a story label Batman and Robin Eternal have not focus on Batman and Robin but I cannot argue that it was completely false advertising because we were told in all interviews who were the three main characters of the story would be, Dick, Cass and Haper. However, it is clear that the title of the book "Batman and Robin" was used as a selling point, so I get why some fans are disappointed that it have not been dominated by the Robin characters.

Dick have gotten most of the panel time in the story so far between the flashbacks and the present the problem is that nothing interesting have been reveled and his place in the story is more or less the detective and less action driven, where as with Cass and Haper (to a lesser extent) are having there history fleshed out which is more interesting to read. And with the fall out that Cass may have killed Haper's mother there is drama and fall out to look forward to, where as the things that Dick are in pursuit of; who is the "Robin" that mother made and did Batman kill someone (which no one believes) seems to be of less consequence and feels like a secondary plot rather than the main plot of the book.

As for Jason and Tim while I like the dynamic between them ,so it a bit fun to read their parts, but it is hard to say where this side plot is actually going.

That said I have more or less been enjoying the book, but this maybe because I don't mind any of these characters and have not felt that my favorite have been pushed aside.

As for Tynion I think his issues have been the strongest so far in this series.