STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS - Can we talk about Finn?

[simbob4000]

I think we're going the wrong route if we insist on strict equivalences between characters. I see a little of Han Solo, Luke and even Lea in Finn, a lot of Luke and a little Han in Rey. Doing a little mix and matching from the original characters seems to be a good way to go with the new ones.

I literally see nothing of those other two in Finn, unless we want to talk about how there's a book that said he was a Stormtrooper that quit. I also didn't say they all had one to one matches. I even said before that Rey was Luke, and Han, and Leia.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Poe has that Han quality ...he isn't afraid of death as he stared down Kylo Ren. He pretty much comically is a great pilot as his escape showed. His character needs more to do next movie.

[Superlad93]

I literally see nothing of those other two in Finn, unless we want to talk about how there's a book that said he was a Stormtrooper that quit. I also didn't say they all had one to one matches. I even said before that Rey was Luke, and Han, and Leia.

Well just as Han wanted to leave his friends for selfish reasons so too does Finn. And just like Leia Finn may be the "there is another" of these movies. Plus FN-2817 is a call back to Leia's cell in A New Hope; cell 2187.

But I'd say he's got a little more Luke.

[Tendrin]

Yeah, I liked Finn better too (not that I didn't like Ray... I liked them both).

Rey seemed a tad on the Mary Sue-ish side... which is fine because clearly there's supposed to be more to her than meets the guy. But I thought Finn came off more sympathetic and relatable. More of a common man in space sort of thing, in a world filled with larger than life characters. And I think that worked for him.

That just made me laugh.

[the nomad]

Well just as Han wanted to leave his friends for selfish reasons so too does Finn. And just like Leia Finn may be the "there is another" of these movies. Plus FN-2817 is a call back to Leia's cell in A New Hope; cell 2187.

I wonder though. If he is supposed to be the other like Leia, does that mean he'll follow in her footsteps and be a general in the resistance and ignore or not embrace her heritage as a Jedi. I could see the writer's doing something like that. After his loss to Kylo Ren, he's got more PTSD than before and he is hesitant to pick up a lightsaber again.

Although that's pure speculation.

[Superlad93]

I wonder though. If he is supposed to be the other like Leia, does that mean he'll follow in her footsteps and be a general in the resistance and ignore or not embrace her heritage as a Jedi. I could see the writer's doing something like that. After his loss to Kylo Ren, he's got more PTSD than before and he is hesitant to pick up a lightsaber again.

Although that's pure speculation.

I remember a few of the filmmakers expressing their dissatisfaction with the idea of Leia not embracing the force more. However with that said they remained very respectful to what was before them so they kept her that way (with a little more force related stuff but still the same).

They wouldn't want to to a one for one remake after this movie was so close the the original (most on the surface level). The new writer and director coming on is very much a visionary (don't jump on me if you didn't like Looper. I loved it and thought it was original as hell). So I think he'll have something new to say on some old ideas.

I think Finn will in fact become a force user but not your typical Jedi. I'm thinking Ren will have a crisis of the heart and soul and he'll actually train Finn Zuke from Avatar style. I think his training will be an almost drill Sargent variation on the Yoda training mixed with his time in the dark ways. I'm thinking he'll be egging Finn on asking him if the wound still hurts him till this day, does he remember how helpless he felt and that sort of stuff.

I'm thinking if the Jedi come back as they were then Finn'll want no part of such an order that suppresses the emotions he's come to love. I think He and Rey will form a new set of rules and regulations for the Jedi moving forward.

[Superlad93]

"For me when I heard Obi-Wan say that the Force surrounds us and binds us all together, there was no judgement about who you were. This was something that we could all access. Being strong with the Force didn’t mean something scientific, it meant something spiritual. It meant someone who could believe, someone who could reach down to the depths of your feelings and follow this primal energy that was flowing through all of us. I mean, that’s what was said in that first film! And there I am sitting in the theater at almost 11 years old and that was a powerful notion. And I think this is what your point was, we would like to believe that when s**t gets serious, that you could harness that Force I was told surrounds not just some of us but every living thing. And so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline, it’s not that I don’t believe that as part of the canon, I’m just saying that at 11 years old, that wasn’t where my heart was. And so I respect and adhere to the canon but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that."

-JJ Abrams


I think that's a pretty strong case in his favor. I very much doubt that Rey, Ren, Luke, and Snoke will be the only one's using sabers and the force in the coming movies. Finn is exemplifying the true rags to riches story like never before. I don't even need him to be a decedent of a Jedi now. He's just a guy that found his own self worth and then now has to make the brave leap to look beyond himself to become greater than he is.

As Abrams said "someone who could believe, someone who could reach down to the depths of your feelings and follow this primal energy that was flowing through all of us". This sounds like Finn. Also this "and so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline, it’s not that I don’t believe that as part of the canon, I’m just saying that at 11 years old, that wasn’t where my heart was. And so I respect and adhere to the canon but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that."

This reads like he'll still adhere to the bloodline idea in Rey, but he'll all Finn to be what moves the myth into the future by showing us that just so long as you believe, truly believe, then no matter who you are, where you came from, or who your parents are you too can accesses this thing that's greater than you. Finn's looking like a new Jedi to me now more than ever!

[shgs]

Finn is unequivocally the POV character. That is why he often seems a little on the back foot in terms of experience and knowledge, because he asks the questions the audience needs to know. He also reacts to the action most like the audience - with awe, and excitement, and with the unsurety and fear we would feel if we were actually in that situation. Thus when Finn does something impressive or brave we vicariously experience it through him, more than with the other characters whose achievements seem further out of our reach. People might relate to or see themselves in other characters, but Finn is the one specifically designed for the audience to put themselves in his shoes.

As such Finn has the fullest and most satisfying character arc: rejecting the evil of the first order, discovering the inner strength to escape, then finally overcoming his instinct for self-preservation to help save his new friend. Rey, by comparison, just goes from being highly competent, to highly competent with force powers, and I suppose goes from looking backwards to looking towards the future, because of that one scene where Maz tells her to stop looking backwards and to look towards the future. Don't get me wrong, I liked Rey, thanks in no small part to a likable performance from Ridley, but at the moment she is far more interesting for the role she plays and what she represents (a strong female lead, a Jedi, probably the child of an original trilogy character) than her actual character in the film.

Not to mention, Finn has the most fleshed out background. Obviously Poe is a blank slate as far as his past goes, because his character wasn't originally meant to be a lead, but Rey's mysterious background is alienating and makes it harder for the audience to identify with her. Finn we know was raised from birth to be a Stormtrooper, he rebelled, and that's all we need to know. Its possible some secret could be revealed later on, but we feel like we know everything there is to know about him.

In the original trilogy, Luke was both POV character and main protagonist. Here the roles are split, with Rey being more central to the plot, and Finn being more the emotional core. If you can't see how much of a victory for diversity it is, to have the vessel through which the audience experience the film be a black character, then you are being willfully obtuse.

All this talk about his lack of "wins" makes me really despair for the future of fiction. Remember, when characters were allowed to be vulnerable, fallible? It was considered a positive even.

Obviously, Luke got his big win in Star Wars (destroying the Death Star, after plenty of humiliation, losing, and being rescued mind you) because at that point no one knew if there would ever be a sequel - he had to have a satisfying resolution to his character arc, because that might literally have been the end of his character arc, but it wasn't about stacking up amazing feats like notches on a bedpost.

We all know that there will be at least a trilogy of films with these characters, so what's the rush to give Finn a mighty victory so soon? Let's have a look at Empire - the first Star Wars movie where the filmmakers knew there was a sequel coming:

Luke gets suckerpunched by a snow monster; Luke performs minor force feat and escapes; but still must be rescued by Han; Luke takes down an AT-AT; Luke crash lands on Dagobah; Luke is belittled, criticized, and told he's too old to train by a senile little alien; Luke levitates some stones!; only for Yoda to demonstrate how ludicrously outclassed Luke is; Luke fails the test in the force cave; Luke walks straight into a trap; gets roundly beaten by Vader; is dismembered; finds out Obi Wan lied to him; falls nearly to his death and has to be rescued.

Han rescues Luke in the snow; but then immediately attempts to abandon the rebellion; he fails and gets lumped with Leia; Han does some fancy flying in the asteroid field; but almost gets them killed by landing in a giant space worm's mouth; Han leads Leia and the others to an extremely unreliable "friend" getting them captured and allowing Vader to set up the trap for Luke; Han is frozen in carbonite; but at least he gets the girl!

Leia... doesn't really have much to do to be honest.

So by the metric established by the naysayers in this thread, Empire must be a terrible film, right? Because the character's spectacular feats are far outweighed by the times something goes wrong for them.* What's that you say? It's the best film in the franchise? But how could that be? Could character be more important than force feats and winning battles? No, that can't be because the prequels were all force feats, whirling lightsabers, and no character, and everyone loves them.

Finally, I'd like to say I agree with everything here:

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't really need Finn to be an absolute 'badass' in the the first go, more to the point I don't see being badass as being more important than being a likable/enjoyable character. Being a young black man myself, Finn being the heart of the movie meant soooo much more than winning a light saber duel with a random storm trooper. Being able to point at Finn and say HE was what the prequels were missing, the human element, the guy we can relate to, made me kind of giddy. The movie might have still been enjoyable without him (as Han can fill the same role), but going forward he is utterly essential to this trilogy being good.

Now if he doesn't get any development going forward (which I find really doubtful), then yeah you'll see me gripping, but until then I'm quite happy.

Note I do see where some are coming from based on the trailers. I didn't give the trailers a second thought because 1: I like to go in as judgement free as possible, 2: Trailers lie all the time. So saying 'this will happen cause the trailer said so' either indicates poor film making on their part for giving a spoiler away, or poor judgement on my part.

*It occurs to me that Lando is the only person in Empire who achieves everything he sets out to achieve. He gets rid of his rival Han, then when he decides to help out the good guys, he manages to pull over the Empire and they escape. Not that I'd defend Lando as an exemplar of racial casting...

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Finn was only comic relief. I didn't resonate with him at all. He's turn was too quick and the acting at times was pretty over the top. I hope he is more on the low going forward. I much prefer the robots as comic relief.

[shgs]

I'm more mad Lupita was wasted.

Same, an average-to-uninteresting mystical exposition character, with no chance of Lupita redeeming the part because her acting was smothered by rubbery CGI.

I wonder if anyone besides me noticed the correlation between Finn's coma (I missed where the "Finn's in a coma" declaration was made) and, Han Solo being trapped (technically a coma) in Carbonite by Darth Vader and an unwitting Lando Calrissian.[/FONT]

Yep, Finn incapacitated and the main characters splitting up - clearly they looked to Empire for consideration.

Its never declared he is in a coma, but he is unconscious for some time (presuming the fact we aren't shown him waking up means he hasn't yet). Do doctors not attempt to resuscitate unconscious patients, and if they have failed that is the very definition of a coma right?

There's a reason Han said "I like this kid" in reference to Finn.

Not to mention Maz - Han's old friend - says something along the lines of "If you live for a long time you see the same eyes in different people. You have the eyes of someone who wants to run." It's not exactly cryptic: he's like Han, he wants to run away, but he'll come through in the end.

Obvious Abrams et al aren't so stupid as to copy characters from the original trilogy wholesale, the sprinkle attribute here and there among the new cast, with their own personal quirks thrown into the mix.

But hey, at least Asians got upgraded from reptilian Trade Federation goons to dude at Resistance base, so hooray progress!

You forget, they also got to form an Asian-themed space gang. I did chuckle at that scene, it reminded me of The Warriors (not necessarily a bad thing).

[shgs]

Finn was only comic relief. I didn't resonate with him at all. He's turn was too quick and the acting at times was pretty over the top. I hope he is more on the low going forward. I much prefer the robots as comic relief.

Honestly, it matters little whether you personally resonated with him, when he was clearly designed for such using fiction techniques as old as the genres of sci-fi and fantasy themselves. I might personally hate Luke Skywalker, Marty McFly, Bilbo Baggins, etc. but they unquestionably designed to be relatable everymen and to be our window into strange, fantastical worlds.

[gwangung]

Finn was only comic relief. I didn't resonate with him at all. He's turn was too quick and the acting at times was pretty over the top. I hope he is more on the low going forward. I much prefer the robots as comic relief.

Heh. And the vast number of audience members who totally identified with Finn and thought him the true hero of the story don't count?

I don't think that's how art and literature work.....

[JaggedFel]

I dont give a frak about what any white person has to say about how they love Finn because quite frankly they love their black characters in subservient roles. Baggie_Saiyan is right character is a comic relief travesty. We got sold a hero on the path to Jedi...we got a comic relief lovable loser in a coma. The True Hero dude was the help he just collects Ls so Rey could get Ws and step over his body to greatness.

Luke is a terrible example, sure he was a mess but by the end he had payoff by shooting down the DeathStar...this would be equivalent to Vader gunning down Luke so that Han could blow up the deathstar.

[RobinFan4880]

I dont give a frak about what any white person has to say about how they love Finn because quite frankly they love their black characters in subservient roles.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

Come on.

[JaggedFel]

Meh Finn is the type of non threatening joker we have been getting served for years if it didnt have such wide support Hollywood would stop feeding us that s***...Finn is a sidekick like Falcon but at least you can trust Falcon not to lose to a nameless Hydra Grunt whereas Finn is a meme for getting whipped by a no name trooper.