STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS - Can we talk about Finn?

[banky]

She's not a Jedi but she feels the Force, and although she clearly wants Rey to have it, she gives it Finn with pretty much no pause, and doesn't even seem to mind that he displays a complete lack of knowledge of what it even is. She has to tell him its a weapon. Yet she entrusts him with it. Again yes, after Rey balks at it, but still, its something important and dangerous that she could have just entrusted to Han, and then in turn Leia, until Rey was ready for it. Instead she gives to, essentially, a noob.

Agreed. I don't know why so many fans want so badly for him to be force sensitive and jedi-worthy. He's a loyal, charismatic and funny character the same way Han or Chewie were. Only the most negative minded fan would find the shortcomings of Finn a reason to dislike and worse, play the race card against the writers, imo.

I think his arc/path will be different but alongside that of Rey's in future films. I don't think he'll be force sensitive but he may become potentially a bigger, stronger character and nemesis of Kylo Ren or Phasma. I can picture him becoming part machine (Luke) and a more capable fighter than Boba Fett.

[JaggedFel]

Yeah no thanks we got enough black characters who are part machine lets have more with the power coming from within ala the Force...as for why he needs The Force because a "hero" doesnt get beat into a coma and never avenges his defeat upon the "villain" who put him in said Coma.

[rpmaluki]

I particularly loved Finn of all three (four if you count Kylo Ren), he impressed me as a character and I look forward to seeing where they take him next. They clearly have a path for him.

[robreedwrites]

I still have lots of problems with Finn, but I was able to clarify some things thanks to the internet, and while it doesn't make the character less problematic in the end, it does correct some things I remembered wrong.

1. While Poe still comes up with the name Finn (which I find problematic as all get out), he explicitly asks FN-2187 if it's okay to call him that, and FN-2187 tries it out and says he likes it. Once again, still problematic as all hell, but I remembered it as Poe just calling him Finn and that was that.

2. Finn hears screams before the Republic planets are hit (plus, you know, other planets, so it's not like he should hear them at all). This is the biggest hint towards him being Force sensitive (even though it has no payoff in this film).

3. This is the one that I just remembered completely wrong. When Finn finally faces Kylo Ren, it's explicitly in response to Ren calling him a traitor. Finn's facing Ren is one of his own agency and in his own defense. I recalled it being in defense of Rey.

Still, he's a very problematic character to me due to way he's treated by the other characters and the way his importance to the plot fades/is undercut in the third act.

[Coin Biter]

I'm having difficulties seeing where the complaints about Finn are coming from.

If he was a mysteriously competent uber-badass, if he would win every fight he's involved in, if it transpired that he had Force powers that he was effortlessly able to manipulate from the word go... he would be a less interesting character, not more.

He would, in short, be Rey

Hell, in any event he was able to injure a Force wielding character who has had at least some training with a lightsaber - that should be implausible victory enough (God knows I've seen lots of complaints about how unskilled Kylo Ren must be for that to happen). He also shoots more accurately than most other Stormtroopers we've seen.

He's given what few Star Wars characters have - an interesting character choice/development from the word go... his obvious trauma at the massacre in which he's involved. He has humanised the Stormtrooper character. He doesn't need to be cutting a bloody swathe through the galaxy.

This movie series is awash with "chosen ones" of one description or another - wooden Anakin, interesting but emo Ren, "it all comes too easy for her" Rey. What it needs are more human protagonists - and after the last three prequels of carboard characterisations, we have one.

[Sacred Knight]

He faces Kylo Ren to defend himself AND Rey. His focus is clearly on her and her well-being, the only thing taking his focus off her is the sound of Kylo swinging his lightsaber behind him, snapping Finn back to reality and knowing he's going to need to stand up to him. This is before Kylo calls him a traitor.

[RobinFan4880]

I am just going to copy what I put in the minority thread 10 Biggest Complaints...

1) Loses To Rey, Loses To "Riot Control" Trooper in a stomp (1st for any Star Wars Lead), slashed across the back by Kylo because of a white girl
2) Gotta get named by Poe instead of naming himself like Rucka
3) No Skills while Rey is Genius Mechanic (can tell Han how to fix his own ship meanwhile Finn cant find the right tool), Ace Pilot (1st time out), Force Prodigy (advanced skills no training including mind tricks), Fighting Badass (beats up grunts, then Kylo no training), Multilingual unlike Rucka where Finn is top 1%
4) Drinks from trough like an animal
5) Always scared (not going to complain about him sweating deserts are hot when you aint acclimatized)
6) Motivation is to Run Not Liberate, Then Saving Rey
7) Ends in Coma so basically no payoff
8) No Force Confirmed
9) Probably Friendzoned...
10) Sanitation Detail SMH.

1) He didn't lose to the Riot Control Trooper, the battle was interrupted mid fight. Who knows how it would have turned out had Han not intervened.

2) He does have a name. FN-2187. Poe gave him a nickname which he adores because it allows him to grasp at a straw of normalcy, the normalcy he so desperately strives to achieve and fight for.

3) Rey helped the guy who owned the Falcon to repair and fix it. This was clearly stated in the movie. She's also a scavenger who picked apart a Star Destroyer for a living. Of course she is going to know mechanical stuff. Ace Pilot is being generous. She was guided by the force, in the same way Anakin was with the Pod Racers. I still contend she was trained by Luke but made to forget her time as a Padawan (be it because Ren couldn't bring himself to kill a family member or Luke was trying to protect her before running off into hiding or something else). She clearly is a bad ass with melee weapons because she grew up in a hostile environment and favored the use of a staff. She grew up on a multi-cultural planet and so needed to pick up multiple languages. Finn grew up in the loving arms of a fascist regime who clearly puts humans at the top of the hierarchy and thus there is zero need to teach their troopers any language other than Basic.

4) He has no money, doesn't speak the language and walked through a desert with no water. I WOULD DRINK FROM A TROUGH in that situation and I am a germaphobe.

5 and 6) He's nervous. That is different than scared. He abandoned the only life he knew for an unknown future filled with people who may hate and revile him. Also, he lives in constant fear of being caught by the First Order and, most likely, being tortured and publicly being made an example of to inspire loyalty amongst the troops. Just look at how every single bad guy called Finn a traitor.

7) Ends in a coma so his story is not finished. His destiny is a blank slate. He could become a jedi or continue down the path of being a soldier. Maybe he becomes a big shot leader in the Resistance? Who can say. Potential is more important than direct pay off. Look at Poe, he helped blow up the Starkiller Base and... What pay off did he get? Nothing. We know where his story will go. It is fundamentally less interesting than the tabula rasa that is Finn's future.

8) Heavily implied but, yes, not confirmed. Does he need the Force? Boba Fett, Han Solo and Leia are all characters with basically no Jedi Training and are all bad asses in their own right.

9) Doubt it. Unless Luke re-instituted the no-marriage policy, Finn and Rey are destined for one another. They had so much chemistry.

10) Anakin was a slave, Luke was a farmer and Rey an orphan scrapper. Everyone starts at the bottom and works their way up.

[rpmaluki]

I'm honestly puzzled at why Finn is being belittled for having achieved the near impossible from his position. Poe is already a great pilot there's nothing more for him to accomplish except to wash rinse and repeat and that is not exciting enough. He's barely a 3D character which is not surprising since he was originally intended to die. Rey, bless her soul, is "The One" and of course she is going to be brilliant at everything but unfortunately that's just as equally boring as Poe's arc (or lack there of) unless they plan on doing something completely unexpected with her character, I don't see much character growth other than her become more overpowered than she already is. Finn is truly a great character and I believe he will grow to be much more than what JJ allowed us to see in the first of the three movies they will make. He's not perfect, far from it but for a guy who literally started from the bottom, he rose much higher than I expected. There were things that obviously didn't gel as well as I thought but it doesn't discount all the positives. I don't want a character that is super perfect in order for me to enjoy them simply because there are no perfect people irl. I can relate to someone like him or even whiny Kylo Ren because my emotions are much more engaged than with the other two characters. I got more satisfaction in watching Finn rise above his fear and lack of self worth and thus I am more intrigued at what's in store for the character.

At this stage I realise we won't all agree on this character but I do feel that his feats shouldn't be ignored simply because he didn't tick all the right boxes in order to be considered worthy or a hero. Last I checked SW is made up of more than just powered (pronounced set of skilled that outdo everyone else) heroes.

[MikeP]

I loved Finn. He was my favorite character of the new movie.

But why oh why must he be a Jedi? You don't need the Force to be special or tough. Han proved that repeatedly. I want to see him grow as a character and let Rey become the uber Jedi.

[MikeP]

I still have lots of problems with Finn, but I was able to clarify some things thanks to the internet, and while it doesn't make the character less problematic in the end, it does correct some things I remembered wrong.

1. While Poe still comes up with the name Finn (which I find problematic as all get out), he explicitly asks FN-2187 if it's okay to call him that, and FN-2187 tries it out and says he likes it. Once again, still problematic as all hell, but I remembered it as Poe just calling him Finn and that was that.

2. Finn hears screams before the Republic planets are hit (plus, you know, other planets, so it's not like he should hear them at all). This is the biggest hint towards him being Force sensitive (even though it has no payoff in this film).

3. This is the one that I just remembered completely wrong. When Finn finally faces Kylo Ren, it's explicitly in response to Ren calling him a traitor. Finn's facing Ren is one of his own agency and in his own defense. I recalled it being in defense of Rey.

Still, he's a very problematic character to me due to way he's treated by the other characters and the way his importance to the plot fades/is undercut in the third act.

I freaking hate the word "problematic".

[Majesty]

Here's something from Boyega himself


Boyega on the Evolution of Finn:

You’re obviously part of a much larger plan for the franchise, so J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan must’ve had a lot mapped out before you even went in, but how collaborative was the process? How much were you able to contribute to Finn’s character as you went?

Boyega: They did have a lot of it mapped out. But the thing about mapping things out the way they do is they leave a very wide road that allows you to improv, to create your character. Obviously, various other people were going in for Finn and there were different versions of the same character. And they allowed that process to be organic. So, very collaborative … J.J. gives you ownership over your part and development of your part and for me, that’s something that is so important.

What were your instincts when approaching Finn as a character?

Boyega: I wanted to go back to the unlikely hero story that I do miss, like “The Warriors,” “Assault on Precinct 13.” The unlikely dudes that, when it starts the movie it’s like, “you won’t be anything but this.” And then they rise to something bigger, gradually, realistically. I love that. And that’s something that attracted me to this role.
http://variety.com/2015/film/news/st...lo-1201664002/



This is important I feel. Because so many people came away from this movie assuming that Finn is all he'll ever be at this point and Rey is the destined hero and "Luke" character

Just like Boyega said, the guy when people say "you won't be anything but this" but will rise to something bigger and greater, but at a realistic pace.

This makes it sound like Finn's journey is one meant for all 3 films.


And to go back to the Luke parallel... they both hit the main bad guy in the arm with one blow before the guy gets mad and then disarms/strikes them down essentially.

With Luke it was against Vader, even outmatched he got a hit in.. which made Vader start trying and dismember him.

Finn got his one hit in on Kylo Ren(the guy who wants to BE Vader and mirror his destiny) who was overconfident and Kylo responded, by disarming and striking him down.

That's quite a mirroring situation there too.

When Finn says "there's nothing special about me" makes me feel he's the guy meant for great things too.

Also to what Sacred said, she was so willing to let Finn have the Lightsaber, something tells me that she deep down inside essentially and eventually felt that he wasn't "ready" yet. He only became ready when he stood against Kylo Ren to protect Rey as well as himself. When he decided to no longer run and found something to fight for, that was the moment his journey truly started. He was struck down by Kylo Ren but because he got no 'closure' it seems like his journey is just beginning.

My mom actually has a theory, she said that she while she thinks Rey and Finn may wind up together, she thinks there's also a chance that Rey and Finn may wind up being brother and sister. Now as much as I want them to be a couple, her theory was that Abrams likes to mirror the other Star Wars movies, and in the first two films we're to assume that it's a love triangle between Luke, Leia and Han and some people pulling for Luke and Leia after the first movie.

But I asked her how it was possible. She said basically that there's many ways it could be done. But the most simple way is that after or during a falling out that Leia and Han Solo had, that she had an affair with Lando. Which is essentially what hurt their friendship as well as drove the deeper wedge of 'regret' between him and Leia. Which would make sense, because if Finn is indeed the son of Leia and Lando, he still is a Skywalker by blood. Which would answer why he'd be a force sensitive that wasn't thought to be a Skywalker.

THOUGH she feels it's more powerful if there's a force user that is not a Skywalker and loves the humble beginnings Finn starts from, they still have enough to go that route if they chose to.

I find that a very interesting theory, both of them actually.



Personally, I'd love for Finn and Rey to end the series together and in love. But I can't deny both theories hold possibilities.

He of course could also be the son of Sana Solo/Starros



But that is less likely as only the comic readers would know of her, unless she appeared in Rogue One. Though she'll likely be in the Han Solo movie. So fans may know of her by then, so who knows.

So many wonderful directions to go with Finn and how great his destiny could be, that's what makes him such a great character to speculate about.

My two cents? He'll be in a coma for most of Episode VIII and will probably be going through a journey in his mind with The Force calling out to him and we'll see flashes, journey and steps, but as I said, I think Rey will turn to the dark side, and he will sense it, and that is what will wake him up. When he wakes up either Maz, Luke or Kylo Ren will be staring at him, make a reference of journey or the work they have to do, and the movie will end.

[Star_Jammer]

I totally buy the "Ren goes Dark" theories, at this point.

Isn't that what happened to the last Force-super-prodigy the movies introduced? Everybody keeps talking about what JJ is "mirroring"...

[rpmaluki]

I totally buy the "Ren goes Dark" theories, at this point.

Isn't that what happened to the last Force-super-prodigy the movies introduced? Everybody keeps talking about what JJ is "mirroring"...

Don't you mean Rey?

[Tazirai]

I am just going to copy what I put in the minority thread 10 Biggest Complaints...

1) Loses To Rey, Loses To "Riot Control" Trooper in a stomp (1st for any Star Wars Lead), slashed across the back by Kylo because of a white girl
2) Gotta get named by Poe instead of naming himself like Rucka
3) No Skills while Rey is Genius Mechanic (can tell Han how to fix his own ship meanwhile Finn cant find the right tool), Ace Pilot (1st time out), Force Prodigy (advanced skills no training including mind tricks), Fighting Badass (beats up grunts, then Kylo no training), Multilingual unlike Rucka where Finn is top 1%
4) Drinks from trough like an animal
5) Always scared (not going to complain about him sweating deserts are hot when you aint acclimatized)
6) Motivation is to Run Not Liberate, Then Saving Rey
7) Ends in Coma so basically no payoff
8) No Force Confirmed
9) Probably Friendzoned...
10) Sanitation Detail SMH.

Theres so much nit picking with Finn.
If he was a white guy in the same position, no one would be saying any of this.
If Rey was named Ray, no one would be calling him a Marty Stu.

The movie wasn't perfect, no film is.
The original trilogy have attained mythical status, and people forgot how not well written they were, except episode 5.
Finn is a great character, and lovable, and full of imperfections..
And Han DIED!

[Tazirai]

Here's something from Boyega himself


Boyega on the Evolution of Finn:

You’re obviously part of a much larger plan for the franchise, so J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan must’ve had a lot mapped out before you even went in, but how collaborative was the process? How much were you able to contribute to Finn’s character as you went?

Boyega: They did have a lot of it mapped out. But the thing about mapping things out the way they do is they leave a very wide road that allows you to improv, to create your character. Obviously, various other people were going in for Finn and there were different versions of the same character. And they allowed that process to be organic. So, very collaborative … J.J. gives you ownership over your part and development of your part and for me, that’s something that is so important.

What were your instincts when approaching Finn as a character?

Boyega: I wanted to go back to the unlikely hero story that I do miss, like “The Warriors,” “Assault on Precinct 13.” The unlikely dudes that, when it starts the movie it’s like, “you won’t be anything but this.” And then they rise to something bigger, gradually, realistically. I love that. And that’s something that attracted me to this role.
http://variety.com/2015/film/news/st...lo-1201664002/



This is important I feel. Because so many people came away from this movie assuming that Finn is all he'll ever be at this point and Rey is the destined hero and "Luke" character

Just like Boyega said, the guy when people say "you won't be anything but this" but will rise to something bigger and greater, but at a realistic pace.

This makes it sound like Finn's journey is one meant for all 3 films.


And to go back to the Luke parallel... they both hit the main bad guy in the arm with one blow before the guy gets mad and then disarms/strikes them down essentially.

With Luke it was against Vader, even outmatched he got a hit in.. which made Vader start trying and dismember him.

Finn got his one hit in on Kylo Ren(the guy who wants to BE Vader and mirror his destiny) who was overconfident and Kylo responded, by disarming and striking him down.

That's quite a mirroring situation there too.

When Finn says "there's nothing special about me" makes me feel he's the guy meant for great things too.

Also to what Sacred said, she was so willing to let Finn have the Lightsaber, something tells me that she deep down inside essentially and eventually felt that he wasn't "ready" yet. He only became ready when he stood against Kylo Ren to protect Rey as well as himself. When he decided to no longer run and found something to fight for, that was the moment his journey truly started. He was struck down by Kylo Ren but because he got no 'closure' it seems like his journey is just beginning.

My mom actually has a theory, she said that she while she thinks Rey and Finn may wind up together, she thinks there's also a chance that Rey and Finn may wind up being brother and sister. Now as much as I want them to be a couple, her theory was that Abrams likes to mirror the other Star Wars movies, and in the first two films we're to assume that it's a love triangle between Luke, Leia and Han and some people pulling for Luke and Leia after the first movie.

But I asked her how it was possible. She said basically that there's many ways it could be done. But the most simple way is that after or during a falling out that Leia and Han Solo had, that she had an affair with Lando. Which is essentially what hurt their friendship as well as drove the deeper wedge of 'regret' between him and Leia. Which would make sense, because if Finn is indeed the son of Leia and Lando, he still is a Skywalker by blood. Which would answer why he'd be a force sensitive that wasn't thought to be a Skywalker.

THOUGH she feels it's more powerful if there's a force user that is not a Skywalker and loves the humble beginnings Finn starts from, they still have enough to go that route if they chose to.

I find that a very interesting theory, both of them actually.



Personally, I'd love for Finn and Rey to end the series together and in love. But I can't deny both theories hold possibilities.

He of course could also be the son of Sana Solo/Starros



But that is less likely as only the comic readers would know of her, unless she appeared in Rogue One. Though she'll likely be in the Han Solo movie. So fans may know of her by then, so who knows.

So many wonderful directions to go with Finn and how great his destiny could be, that's what makes him such a great character to speculate about.

My two cents? He'll be in a coma for most of Episode VIII and will probably be going through a journey in his mind with The Force calling out to him and we'll see flashes, journey and steps, but as I said, I think Rey will turn to the dark side, and he will sense it, and that is what will wake him up. When he wakes up either Maz, Luke or Kylo Ren will be staring at him, make a reference of journey or the work they have to do, and the movie will end.

/slow clap....
Out standing post.