STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS - Can we talk about Finn?

[JaggedFel]

Yamcha is basically a joke in DBZ in that he always gets his butt kicked and his ex gf Bulma eventually marries Vegeta a guy who killed him....but in DBZ Yamcha is played straight ie he is kinda pathetic but he is not comedic or really treated like a joke by other characters...DBZ Abriged is a fan rewrite that plays Yamcha as a joke ie he is pure comedic relief to go along with all his fails and the other characters always bring up his fails and its always really emphasized that he is worthless so he tries hard but sucks ergo Finn would be this version of Yamcha if he never gets some real skills, doesnt get revenge on Kylo (ie get the Force and live up what marketing sold us for TFA) and a Reylo becomes Canon.

[simbob4000]

Why did anyone buy into that Finn marketing? Is was clearly a misdirect.

[JaggedFel]

Why wouldn't they didnt lie about anyone else in the marketing but sure lets blame the audience. I mean they certainly didnt tell us in the marketing that Finn would be a comic relief loser with no skills who takes all the Ls.

[simbob4000]

Why wouldn't they didnt lie about anyone else in the marketing but sure lets blame the audience. I mean they certainly didnt tell us in the marketing that Finn would be a comic relief loser with no skills who takes all the Ls.

Why wouldn't they? Because it was so clearly a misdirect is why. The girl from the desert planet dressed like a female Luke was clearly going to be the Jedi character, even though they didn't show her swing a Lightsaber around. The marketing was clearly designed to make you feel surprised with the character on the poster holding a staff and not a Lightsaber turned out to actually be the Jedi character...it wasn't a surprise, but then I guess it was a surprise for some people.

[robreedwrites]

Why wouldn't they? Because it was so clearly a misdirect is why. The girl from the desert planet dressed like a female Luke was clearly going to be the Jedi character, even though they didn't show her swing a Lightsaber around. The marketing was clearly designed to make you feel surprised with the character on the poster holding a staff and not a Lightsaber turned out to actually be the Jedi character...it wasn't a surprise, but then I guess it was a surprise for some people.

Yeah, it's weird that marketing works sometimes. Especially in franchises that have had two Jedi lead a trilogy before.

I mean, I get that you caught the misdirect right away, but if you can recognize that the marketing was purposefully designed to lead to a surprise, I don't get how you find it difficult to believe that people bought into it.

For someone like me who saw three trailers (the initial teaser, the Han Solo "we're home", and then the first real trailer released around Thanksgiving) and then went as dark as I could on the media/internet in terms of Star Wars coverage, I figured Rey would be important and probably a Jedi, but figured Finn would be the in-training one for this film and Rey would take the longer arc.

[JaggedFel]

My point is Finn is the only one they lied about Poe looked like an ace pilot and is, etc but sure did I think Rey was probably a Skywalker with he Force yes but did I think Finn was a total bait and switch and would be comic relief with no real skills and lose all his fights hardly.

[ChrisIII]

The Finn with a saber marketing was actually fairly late, such as in the final poster and trailers released around October, as well as the convention exclusive Drew Struzan one.

It's not like Star Wars hasn't had deceptive marketing before. Revenge had a lot of marketing of Vader in the suit, complete with the red saber. However, he doesn't appear in the suit until the very end of the film, and the red saber is never used.

[simbob4000]

Yeah, it's weird that marketing works sometimes. Especially in franchises that have had two Jedi lead a trilogy before.

I mean, I get that you caught the misdirect right away, but if you can recognize that the marketing was purposefully designed to lead to a surprise, I don't get how you find it difficult to believe that people bought into it.

For someone like me who saw three trailers (the initial teaser, the Han Solo "we're home", and then the first real trailer released around Thanksgiving) and then went as dark as I could on the media/internet in terms of Star Wars coverage, I figured Rey would be important and probably a Jedi, but figured Finn would be the in-training one for this film and Rey would take the longer arc.

I don't find it difficult that people in general bought into it, I just find it difficult to believe people on a movie board on the internet did.

My point is Finn is the only one they lied about Poe looked like an ace pilot and is, etc but sure did I think Rey was probably a Skywalker with he Force yes but did I think Finn was a total bait and switch and would be comic relief with no real skills and lose all his fights hardly.

Really? Did Rey have the Lightsaber in the marketing? They just show her with that staff weapon on hers, she's even got it in the poster. The poster is lying to you about Rey. Who gives a shit if he lost fights, HE IS THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE MOVIE. Him not being able to do everything perfectly like Rey is a good thing. He did shot down some Tie Fighters, he didn't lose every fight he was in.

[JaggedFel]

She is a young girl on a desert planet who in the center of every poster and has a custom weapon...yeah not too hard to figure out she has the Force. Also that is not false marketing because you got a young girl on a desert planet whereas Finn you got nothing you were sold sure he used the saber but got his buttkicked every fight

I never said I wanted him to do anything perfectly....I wanted him to be component, have a real arc, and have some actual skills.

The Finn with a saber marketing was actually fairly late, such as in the final poster and trailers released around October, as well as the convention exclusive Drew Struzan one.

It's not like Star Wars hasn't had deceptive marketing before. Revenge had a lot of marketing of Vader in the suit, complete with the red saber. However, he doesn't appear in the suit until the very end of the film, and the red saber is never used.

How is that equivalent...they also had Vader shadow for Young Ani in some posters as well.

Unless your saying wait for the next one Finn will eventually get the Force because they did deliver on Vader eventually.

[ChrisIII]

A lot of the Vader shots used in marketing were photos that seemed to indicate that suit Vader would get some more action in the movie than being put together, going 'noooo!" and walking on to a Star Destroyer bridge. Saber ignited, action poses and all that-even had an action figure in "Revenge of the Sith" packaging as well.


Granted, sometimes trailers, books etc. used material from deleted scenes, but these pictures were made mainly to promote the movie.

[lancerman]

Yamcha is basically a joke in DBZ in that he always gets his butt kicked and his ex gf Bulma eventually marries Vegeta a guy who killed him....but in DBZ Yamcha is played straight ie he is kinda pathetic but he is not comedic or really treated like a joke by other characters...DBZ Abriged is a fan rewrite that plays Yamcha as a joke ie he is pure comedic relief to go along with all his fails and the other characters always bring up his fails and its always really emphasized that he is worthless so he tries hard but sucks ergo Finn would be this version of Yamcha if he never gets some real skills, doesnt get revenge on Kylo (ie get the Force and live up what marketing sold us for TFA) and a Reylo becomes Canon.

The thing with this is (and I have to credit Mistare Fusion on youtube for this analysis), Yamcha is sort of the Worf of DBZ. He was a peer to Goku in the first arc so we knew he was strong. He trained with Roshi later so we knew he was strong. He trained with Kami and King Kai later so we knew he was strong.

But because he was a side character that was supposed to be viewed as one of the stronger humans, he became the set up fight for each arcs new villain.

So he lost to Jackie Chun to show off how powerful he was and set up the fight with Goku.
Then after training with Roshi he gets brutalized by Tien to set him up as the antagonist to Goku.
Then he spends a few more years training but he fights Kami in disquise, who in turn loses to Piccolo, to set up the fight with Goku.
Then he trains with Kami, but he immediately gets killed by a Saibamen to showcase the immense threat of the Saiyans.
Then he trains with King Kai, and on his own for 3 years after that, only to be the guy that Android 20 kills to show off how deadly the Android threat is.

The idea is fine. Have a strong fighter lose to emphasize the threat of the new enemy. But when you do it over and over again, and this guy never gets any victories, he stops being the strong fighter who gets beaten by a greater threat, and now becomes the perennial loser who gets beat up all the time.

DBZ abridged just runs with the "Yamcha loses all the time".

[JaggedFel]

I am aware of all that (I just wanted to keep it simple) which is why I said Finn is well on his way to being DBZ Abridged Yamcha because DBZ abriged Yamcha is a loser all the time and played as a straight joke. Ergo Finn closer to DBZ Abrdged Yamcha because originally Yamcha was actually legit, Finn was never legit...I say DBZ A Yamcha is worse possible for Finn, I would guess Finn ends up as DBZ A Krillin, ie less of a joke then Yamcha and eventually gets a girl. that be my most probable guess.

[the nomad]

I am aware of all that (I just wanted to keep it simple) which is why I said Finn is well on his way to being DBZ Abridged Yamcha because DBZ abriged Yamcha is a loser all the time and played as a straight joke. Ergo Finn closer to DBZ Abrdged Yamcha because originally Yamcha was actually legit, Finn was never legit...I say DBZ A Yamcha is worse possible for Finn, I would guess Finn ends up as DBZ A Krillin, ie less of a joke then Yamcha and eventually gets a girl. that be my most probable guess.

I get the anger. I do. Episode VII could have done better by Finn in more than one area however it is the first of three. Maybe they might've dropped the ball first time around but the Second time could be the redeemer. I think it's a bit too early to call him the Yamcha of the series, this early. After the second movie though and they pull the same stunt again, then it becomes a pattern and all bets are off.

I still maintain he's the Gohan of the series at this point. Potential.

[the nomad]

I am aware of all that (I just wanted to keep it simple) which is why I said Finn is well on his way to being DBZ Abridged Yamcha because DBZ abriged Yamcha is a loser all the time and played as a straight joke. Ergo Finn closer to DBZ Abrdged Yamcha because originally Yamcha was actually legit, Finn was never legit...I say DBZ A Yamcha is worse possible for Finn, I would guess Finn ends up as DBZ A Krillin, ie less of a joke then Yamcha and eventually gets a girl. that be my most probable guess.

I get the anger. I do. Episode VII could have done better by Finn in more than one area however it is the first of three. Maybe they might've dropped the ball first time around but the Second time could be the redeemer. I think it's a bit too early to call him the Yamcha of the series, this early. After the second movie though and they pull the same stunt again, then it becomes a pattern and all bets are off.

I still maintain he's the Gohan of the series at this point. Potential.

[kurenai24]

So they're rewriting the script or revising 8, b/c the characters are more popular or rather well liked than they thought ...then what was the script even about... Was Finn in a coma for half the movie or something, was Poe shown doing a one off mission, while we see Rey train sometimes.

I'm also hearing Disney thought Kylo Ren would be their most popular character, and I'm left wondering, why the trailers didn't focus on him much, but on the bait and switch with Finn, why did the movie feel like it was about Rey, if you didn't really put emphasis on Kylo's character...

I don't get why they would conclude that Kylo would be the favorite character coming out this movie, is it b/c his parentage or...