STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS - Can we talk about Finn?

[ChrisIII]

There were plenty of Rey figures in the first wave of Hasbro figures in multiple scales (and more on the way). Rey's like missing from one set and everybody loses their minds. If anything, Han Solo is actually not getting that much merchandise despite his large role in the film. Oh well, he's had 30+ years of many, many figures already (Although not yet on his "Force Awakens" appearence).

The main female characters missing from the figure line are Leia and Maz at this point I think. Given that Hasbro/Kenner has botched Carrie Fisher's likeness many, many times that might be a good thing.

[ChrisIII]

There were plenty of Rey figures in the first wave of Hasbro figures in multiple scales (and more on the way). Rey's like missing from one set and everybody loses their minds. If anything, Han Solo is actually not getting that much merchandise despite his large role in the film. Oh well, he's had 30+ years of many, many figures already (Although not yet on his "Force Awakens" appearence).

The main female characters missing from the figure line are Leia and Maz at this point I think. Given that Hasbro/Kenner has botched Carrie Fisher's likeness many, many times that might be a good thing.

[David Walton]

So watching the film a second time this weekend I loved all the characters even more than the first time around.

I get why people think Rey is perfect, but I don't think that's entirely accurate. She forgets to unlock the safety on her blaster, she runs from her destiny until being captured, and she spends a lot her lightsaber fight with Kylo Ren running away and accidentally cutting down trees.

Of all the characters, Finn is the most relatable. His first instinct is to run. When he gets over that, he's more concerned about saving his friend Rey than his obligations to the universe. It's fun to see his worldview evolve into something more heroic.

[kurenai24]

Movies get rewritten all the time, especially big studio films like this. Some of them end up with scripts that look like rainbows.

Of course scripts get rewrites and revised, what I didn't expect, is something like this, as if the original script didn't do right by the characters and therefore they had to change it. We're stuck with these characters for a trilogy, whether they are liked or not, your priority is these characters and to do right by them. So to me them doing a rewrite b/c they didn't expect their characters to be well-liked seems like they didn't understand this concept and might have wrote them lazily. Hopefully this is just me being cynical, and with this rewrite they are going to make the next movie more character driven, in comparison to TFA which was very introductory to the characters and the world.

Hearing from where, based on what?

The movie felt like it was about Rey because the movie was about Rey.

They would probably conclude that Kylo Ren would sell more because he's the movies Darth Vader, and they gave him his own unique Lightsaber. Kind of like they probably assumed Captain Phasma would sell more toys, (even thought she barely in the movie and does almost nothing) because she's a unique looking Stormtrooper. This isn't their first Star Wars rodeo, they've sold Star Wars toys before.

I did say that I'm hearing this or that, which means this is hearsay, if it wasn't, I would have stated it as fact or not stated it at all.

And of course the movie is about Rey, but if they expected Kylo Ren to be their most well liked character, I didn't see an emphasis on him in the trailer, or anything in the movie to come this conclusion.

I get that Darth Vader was/is a popular character, and I get that people like the bad guys, but most people like bad guys b/c like any other character, their actions, characteristics, personality, etc is what attracts them. Kylo Ren didn't earn the right to be assumed that he would be a favorite.

[JaggedFel]

Kylo was a whiny brat who killed Han frakking Solo meanwhile they gave Rey every skill in the book and every piece of iconography and her rekt Kylo Ren with no training in a fight pure incompetence from Disney if they thought Kylo would be the most popular. Note I dont mean sell toys Phasma is a slam dunk in my book to sell but I dont know how they could look at Rey and then look at Kylo and think Kylo would be the fan favorite outta this movie.

[Punisher007]

Except that she doesn't and they give him multiple outs to explain why he lost. But don't let little details like that interfere with your rant.

Anyway they likely assumed that Kylo Ren would be their most popular characters because he's the "masked guy in black." Not just Vader, but also Darth Maul and Boba Fett became hugely popular (despite much lesser roles). So it's not an unreasonable assumption all things considered.

[Punisher007]

Of course scripts get rewrites and revised, what I didn't expect, is something like this, as if the original script didn't do right by the characters and therefore they had to change it. We're stuck with these characters for a trilogy, whether they are liked or not, your priority is these characters and to do right by them. So to me them doing a rewrite b/c they didn't expect their characters to be well-liked seems like they didn't understand this concept and might have wrote them lazily. Hopefully this is just me being cynical, and with this rewrite they are going to make the next movie more character driven, in comparison to TFA which was very introductory to the characters and the world.

I did say that I'm hearing this or that, which means this is hearsay, if it wasn't, I would have stated it as fact or not stated it at all.

And of course the movie is about Rey, but if they expected Kylo Ren to be their most well liked character, I didn't see an emphasis on him in the trailer, or anything in the movie to come this conclusion.

I get that Darth Vader was/is a popular character, and I get that people like the bad guys, but most people like bad guys b/c like any other character, their actions, characteristics, personality, etc is what attracts them. Kylo Ren didn't earn the right to be assumed that he would be a favorite.

I'm not worried.

1. It's Rian Johnson and I have great confidence in him
2. TFA gives him a solid foundation to work off of when it comes to the characters (them being so popular so quickly that this even happened is simply a testament to that.
3. Supposedly filming is being delayed for like three weeks, not that long. So perhaps either the rewrites aren't that extensive to begin with, or they've been working on them for awhile. Plus the reports I've heard point to the mostly involving a couple of new characters who's roles are being reduced in favor of the TFA ones.

Plus you can never really tell for sure what characters will catch on or not, the history of film and TV is filled with examples of this.

[Punisher007]

So watching the film a second time this weekend I loved all the characters even more than the first time around.

I get why people think Rey is perfect, but I don't think that's entirely accurate. She forgets to unlock the safety on her blaster, she runs from her destiny until being captured, and she spends a lot her lightsaber fight with Kylo Ren running away and accidentally cutting down trees.

Of all the characters, Finn is the most relatable. His first instinct is to run. When he gets over that, he's more concerned about saving his friend Rey than his obligations to the universe. It's fun to see his worldview evolve into something more heroic.

Rey is my favorite, but I think that in many ways Finn is the most inspiring of them. Plus EVERY major heroic character would be dead or captured by the end of this movie if it weren't for him, and he does much more to resolve the main plot of the film than Rey does (who's victories are mostly personal), which is impressive. Also Boyega has heavily implied that Finn's badassery will be upped moving forward, which is exciting.

[JaggedFel]

Good for you I believe it when I see it, I thought I was getting a Black Jedi To Be not a comic relief Janitor with no skills, So no more Benefit of the Doubt for KK, LucasFilm and Disney... I prefer my black heroes to not look like s*** next to the white heroes. Why is Rey your favorite? I guarantee you wouldnt like her nearly as much if she was a janitor, who had no skills, lost every fight and always had to be saved by Finn all the damn time... sure there is something inspiring about getting up after you get knocked down, there is nothing inspiring about getting knocked down again and again. There is nothing inspiring about losing to a trooper that Disney cant even be bothered to name in the damn movie. First Hero to lose 1 v 1 to a trooper in Star Wars and its the Black supposed Co-Lead...SMFH.

I shouldnt have to wait for Finn to look good, Rey and Poe sure as hell dont have to wait.

Except that she doesn't and they give him multiple outs to explain why he lost. But don't let little details like that interfere with your rant.

Anyway they likely assumed that Kylo Ren would be their most popular characters because he's the "masked guy in black." Not just Vader, but also Darth Maul and Boba Fett became hugely popular (despite much lesser roles). So it's not an unreasonable assumption all things considered.

That is all well and good but you cant say him losing helped his popularity can you, outs be damned he still lost to a novice. Excuses are great and all but its never good to start out your main villain losing to an up incoming hero in my book. Hero is suppose to be closing the gap not the villain with 2 decades of training or so.

Sure Kylo looks cool but Fett and Phasma go together so lets look at the two Sith: Vader and Maul. All kylo has is the look.

When Kylo is mad he trashes a room when Vader is mad he force chokes people.
Kylo is a whiny brat most of the movie who comes across as a Fanboy whining about the lightside, Vader and Maul are intimidating.
Maul and Vader win their first real fights they dont lose. Meanwhile Kylo loses and before that two of his wins are against old men not fighting back (including legendary hero Han Solo) and Finn couldnt even beat a random trooper not exactly an impressive opening start.

Kylo looks cool sure but his effectiveness and personality are not conducive to making an iconic villain.

My point if they wanted Kylo to step in as the new Vader of Maul then they outside of appearance they did a s*** job.

Kylo is essentially Anakin cosplaying Vader.

[Punisher007]

No, I don't agree. I LIKE the idea of paralleling the development of both the hero and the villain. Also I found him to be a VERY interesting villain, and his similiarites to PT Anakin are vastly overblown. Also considering how most people that I talk to in daily life really liked him, and he ranks high on many a favorite new character polls, and the critical praise, I think that they're doing just fine.

He's a different kind of villain than we've seen before, and all of the "complaints" essentially boil down to "he's not more Vader like." Which is hilarious considering that, you know damn well that if he was, people would complain about them "trying to rehash Vader and Maul again." And yes, that WOULD happen.

Kylo is a whiny brat most of the movie who comes across as a Fanboy whining about the lightside, Vader and Maul are intimidating.
Maul and Vader win their first real fights they dont lose.

1. He's NOT really "whiny." Psychotically unstable and temperamental sure, but not whiny.
2. So basically for all the complaints about "rehash," the complaint is that Kylo isn't a rehash. Yeah that makes total sense.
3. "He's wants to be Vader, but doesn't know how," that's the whole point. And it's what's makes him interesting.

[Punisher007]

Good for you I believe it when I see it, I thought I was getting a Black Jedi To Be not a comic relief Janitor with no skills, So no more Benefit of the Doubt for KK, LucasFilm and Disney... I prefer my black heroes to not look like s*** next to the white heroes. Why is Rey your favorite? I guarantee you wouldnt like her nearly as much if she was a janitor, who had no skills, lost every fight and always had to be saved by Finn all the damn time... sure there is something inspiring about getting up after you get knocked down, there is nothing inspiring about getting knocked down again and again. There is nothing inspiring about losing to a trooper that Disney cant even be bothered to name in the damn movie. First Hero to lose 1 v 1 to a trooper in Star Wars and its the Black supposed Co-Lead...SMFH.

I shouldnt have to wait for Finn to look good, Rey and Poe sure as hell dont have to wait.



That is all well and good but you cant say him losing helped his popularity can you, outs be damned he still lost to a novice. Excuses are great and all but its never good to start out your main villain losing to an up incoming hero in my book. Hero is suppose to be closing the gap not the villain with 2 decades of training or so.

Sure Kylo looks cool but Fett and Phasma go together so lets look at the two Sith: Vader and Maul. All kylo has is the look.

When Kylo is mad he trashes a room when Vader is mad he force chokes people.
Kylo is a whiny brat most of the movie who comes across as a Fanboy whining about the lightside, Vader and Maul are intimidating.
Maul and Vader win their first real fights they dont lose. Meanwhile Kylo loses and before that two of his wins are against old men not fighting back (including legendary hero Han Solo) and Finn couldnt even beat a random trooper not exactly an impressive opening start.

Kylo looks cool sure but his effectiveness and personality are not conducive to making an iconic villain.

My point if they wanted Kylo to step in as the new Vader of Maul then they outside of appearance they did a s*** job.

Kylo is essentially Anakin cosplaying Vader.

You might have a point, if EVERYTHING that you just said wasn't complete and total nonsense. First of all, he wasn't a "janitor." You're hyperbole aside, he was assigned to sanitation when he was at home base, soldiers being assigned "mundane" duties when back on base is VERY common. Also, you're argument essentially comes down to "he wasn't a complete physical badass with a lightsaber, so he has no value." Thankfully, most people don't agree with you because they recognize that there's much more to an actually character than just that. EVERY SINGLE heroic character would be dead or captured if he wasn't around, so please spare me the "he's useless" nonsense.

Try looking past the bare surface aesthetics (I know that that can be hard for internet fandom many times) and maybe you'll actually see that.

[the nomad]

You might have a point, if EVERYTHING that you just said wasn't complete and total nonsense. First of all, he wasn't a "janitor." You're hyperbole aside, he was assigned to sanitation when he was at home base, soldiers being assigned "mundane" duties when back on base is VERY common. Also, you're argument essentially comes down to "he wasn't a complete physical badass with a lightsaber, so he has no value." Thankfully, most people don't agree with you because they recognize that there's much more to an actually character than just that. EVERY SINGLE heroic character would be dead or captured if he wasn't around, so please spare me the "he's useless" nonsense.

Try looking past the bare surface aesthetics (I know that that can be hard for internet fandom many times) and maybe you'll actually see that.

I often wonder though. They are living in a Galaxy/ time period with droids.....why oh why would they still need their troopers for Sanitation or anything mundane?