STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS - Can we talk about Finn?

[RobinFan4880]

The movie was light on prequel stuff but the surrounding EU stuff Marvel has been doing is still pretty big on incorporating some of the prequel stuff. There was even a fun short story about one of the background characters in TFA trying to find Count Dooku's stash of lightsaber crystals.

And it sounds like at least for a time, they were considering bringing back Anakin as a Force Ghost.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...news/?a=129285

Cool find, I like it!

Plus Satine had a sister (voiced by Katee Sackhoff--you could even cast her in a flashback!) Maybe she and Obi-Wan formed a relationship out of mutual loss...

...but I get the sense the current production team wants to get as far away from the prequels as possible. This sadly includes TCW, which is some of the best Star Wars stuff.

Rebels has been really good about including TCW stuff, so I imagine Disney still likes all of it. However, I agree, minimizing it for the first cinematic outing is a good call, since the Prequels left such a sour taste in many people's mouths.

I can't agree with you. Luke's whole life story hadn't been given to us either in IV, but enough information was provided that we could understand where his incredible luck seemed to come from. That's not the case with Rey.

What if Rey was both Luke's daughter and one of his padawans? What if she was present at the time of the Jedi Massacre? What if Ben couldn't bring himself to kill his cousin and so erased her memory and dropped her off on Jakku so that Snoke or the other knights of Ren could never find her? That would explain why he freaked out when the officer mentioned Finn and BB were being helped by a local girl. It would also explain how she was able to manifest Force powers so quickly and easily.

So Rey's story is akin to Revan's from the Knights of the Old Republic.

[brettc1]

I liked him. It's weird that the folks who heap praise on episode 4 because Luke gets rescued so much also pour scorn on Episode 7 for the same thing happening with Finn.

[Majesty]

/slow clap....
Out standing post.

Thank you very much

[PwrdOn]

Finn was definitely my favorite character in the film. Sure he may not have been a badass, but he's brave, resourceful, funny, charming, and just flat out likable. Star Wars has enough special snowflakes as it is, seeing a regular guy thrown into an impossible situation stepping up to become a hero is far more inspiring than simply making Finn another hero of destiny or whatever. Boyega was very natural in the role, neither trying too hard to be cool nor slipping into lovable loser territory, and he had great chemistry with Rey, whether or not they decide to go down the obvious romance angle. I really don't think getting beat up by a stormtrooper should deter kids from seeing Finn as their hero and role model.

[robreedwrites]

I liked him. It's weird that the folks who heap praise on episode 4 because Luke gets rescued so much also pour scorn on Episode 7 for the same thing happening with Finn.

Luke destroyed the Death Star in Episode IV. What did Finn do?

[HUTHAIFA]

I am just going to copy what I put in the minority thread 10 Biggest Complaints...

1) Loses To Rey, Loses To "Riot Control" Trooper in a stomp (1st for any Star Wars Lead), slashed across the back by Kylo because of a white girl
2) Gotta get named by Poe instead of naming himself like Rucka
3) No Skills while Rey is Genius Mechanic (can tell Han how to fix his own ship meanwhile Finn cant find the right tool), Ace Pilot (1st time out), Force Prodigy (advanced skills no training including mind tricks), Fighting Badass (beats up grunts, then Kylo no training), Multilingual unlike Rucka where Finn is top 1%
4) Drinks from trough like an animal
5) Always scared (not going to complain about him sweating deserts are hot when you aint acclimatized)
6) Motivation is to Run Not Liberate, Then Saving Rey
7) Ends in Coma so basically no payoff
8) No Force Confirmed
9) Probably Friendzoned...
10) Sanitation Detail SMH.

Agreed 100%

[lancerman]

Luke destroyed the Death Star in Episode IV. What did Finn do?

3 Main characters in ANH

Luke- blows up the death star
Han- saves Luke from Vader's ship
Leia- leads the rebel alliance

3 Main characters in TFA

Rey- escapes Starkiller base and fends off Kylo Ren
Poe- destroys Starkiller base.
Finn- goes after Rey who ended up not needing saving and is defeated by Kylo Ren.

[lancerman]

Or it is very good writing and her whole life story simply has not been revealed to us yet.

So what your saying is based off all the information we have in the film, it doesn't make sense. But later on it might... Which doesn't excuse what happened here.

That's like if the Bourne Identity was just about a guy with an amnesia with super competent abilities BUT we were never privy to the fact that he was a spy or the CIA wasn't involved in the plot at all. So he was just some guy doing cool things.

Or if in the original Star Wars, the force is never mentioned, and Luke still manually blows up the death star without his X-Wings equipment.

What we got was a girl who was a great pilot, could fix a ship better than it's owner, a competent fighter who from as much as we know lived on a planet with not many reasons to have anything beyond street fight training, who could beat a Sith in training in both force mind games and a lightsaber duel despite not knowing she could use the force until that day. And we are given no reason to even assume why.

[taozen]

I am glad this thread was created. Finn oh Finn.

First of all I want to say that John Boyega nailed this role. He was great in his performance and had great chemistry with every character he interacted with in the movie.

But let talk about Finn. Before I get into my thoughts about the character, it is interesting to see how different groups interpret Finn. Or more specific, one group in general sees him differently. I listen to a lot of podcasts especially ones that focus on scifi and fantasy media. And all demographics seem to enjoy Finn as a character with the exception of some members of one group, black men.

But why have so many black men expressed so much displeasure in the characterization of Finn. I think it stars with how they marketed The Force Awakens. In the first full teaser trailer you hear the voice over about an awakening in the force and you the first face you see in Finn. You also see that he has been raised to do one thing, fight, but now he has nothing to fight for. Later in the first trailer you see Finn welding the lightsaber and one can assume that he will weld the force. You do not see any other protagonist welding the saber. Now I have to say that any true fan of Star Wars that watched the marketing knew that the Rey character was designed in the mold of Anakin and Luke in location and dress. But back to Finn. Finn's TV spot was marketed on shows like Empire welding that lightsaber. Hey, only Force sensitive individual weld those but I saw the expression on Finn's face and his combat style and I had my doubts. But I was hopeful.

So what I hopeful for? A young black protagonist in a scifi film franchise. Why? BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE! NONE? Yes sir, none. So many men in the black nerd culture have been craving a black young black male hero. And with those trailers you get the impression that Finn was going to be that character. Why? Because he was welding the lightsaber. I even told my girlfriend, that I knew that Rey was going to be a Jedi. If Finn is not then I was going to be upset and if he dies in the film then I was not going to watch any other episode in the franchise. She was shocked because she knows how much I love Star Wars. But I digress. It looked as if in Finn were going to be that character. I am a black man and I showed the first trailer to my nephew who is black and latino (just like Miles Morales). When my 16 year old nephew saw that first full trailer, he mouth was wide open in awe. Because he saw Finn with that lightsaber and that trailer was incredible. He even said that he had never seen that before. Why? Because there are no young black male protagonist in scifi action movies. NONE! He was extremely excited. Hell I have a difficult time finding scifi/fantasy novels with a black male protagonist. They are extremely rare. So my point is with the marketing most people who are just causal fans thought that Finn was the protagonist. I have to say that with all the marketing I thought that the story was going to be about the badass pilot (Po), the badass Jedi(Rey) and the badass soldier (Finn).

Those were the expectations based on the film's marketing. Now the Film presents a different Finn. The marketing was to hide that the true protagonist of the film was Rey. There was none showing her with a lightsaber. Keep in mind the marketing of Rey to women was huge. One only had to watch some of the ABC shows like Grey Anatomy, Scandal and How to Get Away with Murder. Ray was all over the place smashing people with that staff o hers. Star Wars fans have always been males in general. You know they were going to show up in droves to see the film. So how could they bring women to this movie? Put in a female protagonist and market the hell out of it. And it worked like a charm.

Now back to Finn. Finn's characterization bothered a lot of black men. When I was watching the movie and when they described Finn's past of being taken, having no name and being programed to follow orders I thought he was basically enslaved. Then every time Finn had a climatic confrontation, he lost and ended on his back with someone standing over him. It happened with Rey, the Storm Trooper and with Kylo Ren. To many it just shows the only black character of significance in the film losing all of his significant battles. Not only that he is the comic relief in the film. He is extremely likable. A lot of people see Finn as a side kick character to Rey who is the protagonist. Why? Because Star Wars is all about Jedi. Also we should not be surprised since Star Wars is all about the Skywalker clan. It is about their story.

So much of Finn's character embodies tropes that many people are so tied of seeing in Black males. The comic relief side kick. The side character whose story just serves the protagonist. And that is what Finn does. Many people in this thread have expressed how Finn overcomes his fear and finally stops running to finally fight. He does so. Why? Because Rey is kidnapped. That is his turning point in the film which happens at the end of the second act. He does not do so to defend himself. He does so for another character that he is head over heels for. You really see his feelings when he sees Rey being carried by Ren. He sprints towards the First Order screaming for Rey. When he finally meets up with Rey what does he say to her. He says, "Are you all right? Did he hurt you?" That Finn is totally in love?

Most of the time when Finn tries to save Rey he comes up short. She saves herself. From the scene on Jakku when she is attacked by those men attempting to steal BB-8 to the scene on Starkiller Base. She escaped using force persuasion. His character is neutered as he basically serves the film's protagonist. In the climatic scene when Rey is knocked unconscious he faces the most feared character of the First Order. He lights the saber again to defend Rey and comes up short. He is severely injured. Then you have the scene in the movie that received the most cheers. When the saber flies by Kylo into Reys hand, the theater cheered so loudly. And that happened the 3 times I have watched the movie. That scene is set up for Rey to finally accept her destiny.

The interesting thing is that the only group that seems to have a problem with the characterization of Finn are some Black male geeks. I think that the reason is that we are hungry, no starving, for a black male scifi hero which we have not seen in a long long time. I read an article with Cathleen Kennedy, the head of Lucasfilm and she basically said that you are going to see female representation in these films. And you can see it in this film. The marketing and casting were brilliant. The Hunger Games series proved that a women can lead a scifi franchise that is a huge success. So with Daisy Ridley in the lead role, it will pull women to this goliath of a franchise and the record breaking revenues proved it worked. Tons of women in numerous podcasts have spoken emotionally about how important a character Rey is. How she was strong. How she did not need to be saved. How she was capable. Keep in mind that many people saw the opposite in Finn. He was defeated 3 times throughout the film. He had to be saved more than once. And his story just serves the character of Rey. Finn in the film was not the hero we were looking for.

[gwangung]

What we got was a girl who was a great pilot, could fix a ship better than it's owner, a competent fighter who from as much as we know lived on a planet with not many reasons to have anything beyond street fight training, who could beat a Sith in training in both force mind games and a lightsaber duel despite not knowing she could use the force until that day. And we are given no reason to even assume why.

Fix a ship better than it's owner because she was working on it much more recently, to be precise. And whose day to day living depended on having mechanical skills and combat skills. Really, the problematic part of Rey was her Force skills.

[skyvolt2000]

taozen just summed up the issue.


And to add even more fire-we got Finn vs Riot Control Storm Trooper play set coming next year. Yeah lets put out a figure set where the black guy loses to a guy with a name that might bring memories of Civil Rights. Unintentionally mind you.

And even MORE fuel to the fire-Star Wars apologist are using the "Finn wasn't meant to be black anyway-so why be mad?" excuse. So we are suppose to settle for what is toss out?

Johnny Storm wasn't meant to be black in Fantastic Four but we have thread upon thread of complaints about Michael B. Jordan. So where is the settling for that?

The interesting thing is that the only group that seems to have a problem with the characterization of Finn are some Black male geeks. I think that the reason is that we are hungry, no starving, for a black male scifi hero which we have not seen in a long long time.

We are not having this conversation if there was not such a resistance to black males being in anything and not just being the usual troupe. They exist but you have to spend hours and hours trying to find them.

And the few there are out there-have all said the same thing-publishers & studios don't want to make them. It's the "do you really do that?" question they keep getting.

And i by luck they are made movie wise-good luck in finding the dvd or hope HULU will show it.

[Carabas]

Poe- destroys Starkiller base.

Poe destroys Starkiller Base after Finn told them how to do that.

Rey- escapes Starkiller base and fends off Kylo Ren
Finn- goes after Rey who ended up not needing saving and is defeated by Kylo Ren.

Rey ended up getting one-hit KOed by Ren when he smacks her into a tree.
And it's pretty much game over for her then and there, except there was somebody else who kept Ren busy while she recovered.

Also, without Finn, Rey is not even getting a Lighsaber in that fight anyway.

[gwangung]

Poe destroys Starkiller Base after Finn told them how to do that.



Rey ended up getting one-hit KOed by Ren when he smacks her into a tree.
And it's pretty much game over for her then and there, except there was somebody else who kept Ren busy while she recovered.

Also, without Finn, Rey is not even getting a Lighsaber in that fight anyway.

Starkiller base don't get destroyed until Finn gets the shield taken down. (Granted it was a DUMB scene,but if Rey can get some easy dumb victories...).

It seems to me the problem with Finn for some people is that he's not a hero in a hypermasculine way. A lot of the bumbling and awkwardness that a Han Solo can get away with doesn't set right with Finn, who's inherently a less worldly and less socially adept character.

[dkrook]

I am glad this thread was created. Finn oh Finn.

First of all I want to say that John Boyega nailed this role. He was great in his performance and had great chemistry with every character he interacted with in the movie.

But let talk about Finn. Before I get into my thoughts about the character, it is interesting to see how different groups interpret Finn. Or more specific, one group in general sees him differently. I listen to a lot of podcasts especially ones that focus on scifi and fantasy media. And all demographics seem to enjoy Finn as a character with the exception of some members of one group, black men.

But why have so many black men expressed so much displeasure in the characterization of Finn. I think it stars with how they marketed The Force Awakens. In the first full teaser trailer you hear the voice over about an awakening in the force and you the first face you see in Finn. You also see that he has been raised to do one thing, fight, but now he has nothing to fight for. Later in the first trailer you see Finn welding the lightsaber and one can assume that he will weld the force. You do not see any other protagonist welding the saber. Now I have to say that any true fan of Star Wars that watched the marketing knew that the Rey character was designed in the mold of Anakin and Luke in location and dress. But back to Finn. Finn's TV spot was marketed on shows like Empire welding that lightsaber. Hey, only Force sensitive individual weld those but I saw the expression on Finn's face and his combat style and I had my doubts. But I was hopeful.

So what I hopeful for? A young black protagonist in a scifi film franchise. Why? BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE! NONE? Yes sir, none. So many men in the black nerd culture have been craving a black young black male hero. And with those trailers you get the impression that Finn was going to be that character. Why? Because he was welding the lightsaber. I even told my girlfriend, that I knew that Rey was going to be a Jedi. If Finn is not then I was going to be upset and if he dies in the film then I was not going to watch any other episode in the franchise. She was shocked because she knows how much I love Star Wars. But I digress. It looked as if in Finn were going to be that character. I am a black man and I showed the first trailer to my nephew who is black and latino (just like Miles Morales). When my 16 year old nephew saw that first full trailer, he mouth was wide open in awe. Because he saw Finn with that lightsaber and that trailer was incredible. He even said that he had never seen that before. Why? Because there are no young black male protagonist in scifi action movies. NONE! He was extremely excited. Hell I have a difficult time finding scifi/fantasy novels with a black male protagonist. They are extremely rare. So my point is with the marketing most people who are just causal fans thought that Finn was the protagonist. I have to say that with all the marketing I thought that the story was going to be about the badass pilot (Po), the badass Jedi(Rey) and the badass soldier (Finn).

Those were the expectations based on the film's marketing. Now the Film presents a different Finn. The marketing was to hide that the true protagonist of the film was Rey. There was none showing her with a lightsaber. Keep in mind the marketing of Rey to women was huge. One only had to watch some of the ABC shows like Grey Anatomy, Scandal and How to Get Away with Murder. Ray was all over the place smashing people with that staff o hers. Star Wars fans have always been males in general. You know they were going to show up in droves to see the film. So how could they bring women to this movie? Put in a female protagonist and market the hell out of it. And it worked like a charm.

Now back to Finn. Finn's characterization bothered a lot of black men. When I was watching the movie and when they described Finn's past of being taken, having no name and being programed to follow orders I thought he was basically enslaved. Then every time Finn had a climatic confrontation, he lost and ended on his back with someone standing over him. It happened with Rey, the Storm Trooper and with Kylo Ren. To many it just shows the only black character of significance in the film losing all of his significant battles. Not only that he is the comic relief in the film. He is extremely likable. A lot of people see Finn as a side kick character to Rey who is the protagonist. Why? Because Star Wars is all about Jedi. Also we should not be surprised since Star Wars is all about the Skywalker clan. It is about their story.

So much of Finn's character embodies tropes that many people are so tied of seeing in Black males. The comic relief side kick. The side character whose story just serves the protagonist. And that is what Finn does. Many people in this thread have expressed how Finn overcomes his fear and finally stops running to finally fight. He does so. Why? Because Rey is kidnapped. That is his turning point in the film which happens at the end of the second act. He does not do so to defend himself. He does so for another character that he is head over heels for. You really see his feelings when he sees Rey being carried by Ren. He sprints towards the First Order screaming for Rey. When he finally meets up with Rey what does he say to her. He says, "Are you all right? Did he hurt you?" That Finn is totally in love?

Most of the time when Finn tries to save Rey he comes up short. She saves herself. From the scene on Jakku when she is attacked by those men attempting to steal BB-8 to the scene on Starkiller Base. She escaped using force persuasion. His character is neutered as he basically serves the film's protagonist. In the climatic scene when Rey is knocked unconscious he faces the most feared character of the First Order. He lights the saber again to defend Rey and comes up short. He is severely injured. Then you have the scene in the movie that received the most cheers. When the saber flies by Kylo into Reys hand, the theater cheered so loudly. And that happened the 3 times I have watched the movie. That scene is set up for Rey to finally accept her destiny.

The interesting thing is that the only group that seems to have a problem with the characterization of Finn are some Black male geeks. I think that the reason is that we are hungry, no starving, for a black male scifi hero which we have not seen in a long long time. I read an article with Cathleen Kennedy, the head of Lucasfilm and she basically said that you are going to see female representation in these films. And you can see it in this film. The marketing and casting were brilliant. The Hunger Games series proved that a women can lead a scifi franchise that is a huge success. So with Daisy Ridley in the lead role, it will pull women to this goliath of a franchise and the record breaking revenues proved it worked. Tons of women in numerous podcasts have spoken emotionally about how important a character Rey is. How she was strong. How she did not need to be saved. How she was capable. Keep in mind that many people saw the opposite in Finn. He was defeated 3 times throughout the film. He had to be saved more than once. And his story just serves the character of Rey. Finn in the film was not the hero we were looking for.

You have beautifully written what is on the minds of lots of brothers regardless if folks outside of our particular demographic can grasp the intent of this text or not.

[JaggedFel]

good stuff taozen a perfect summary.