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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    You have beautifully written what is on the minds of lots of brothers regardless if folks outside of our particular demographic can grasp the intent of this text or not.

    I am a 51 year old white man and I see what he is saying. Finn should have gotten to save Rey at least once (like Obi Wan and Han did for Luke in ANH) and had some more skills. There was balance in ANH since even though Han didn't have the Force he had a lot of other things going for him. Finn not so much.

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    Indeed even if Anakin is stronger then Obi-wan...Obi-wan still had intangibles like Experience over Anakin that is not even accounting for personality issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    I am glad this thread was created. Finn oh Finn.

    First of all I want to say that John Boyega nailed this role. He was great in his performance and had great chemistry with every character he interacted with in the movie.

    But let talk about Finn. Before I get into my thoughts about the character, it is interesting to see how different groups interpret Finn. Or more specific, one group in general sees him differently. I listen to a lot of podcasts especially ones that focus on scifi and fantasy media. And all demographics seem to enjoy Finn as a character with the exception of some members of one group, black men.

    But why have so many black men expressed so much displeasure in the characterization of Finn. I think it stars with how they marketed The Force Awakens. In the first full teaser trailer you hear the voice over about an awakening in the force and you the first face you see in Finn. You also see that he has been raised to do one thing, fight, but now he has nothing to fight for. Later in the first trailer you see Finn welding the lightsaber and one can assume that he will weld the force. You do not see any other protagonist welding the saber. Now I have to say that any true fan of Star Wars that watched the marketing knew that the Rey character was designed in the mold of Anakin and Luke in location and dress. But back to Finn. Finn's TV spot was marketed on shows like Empire welding that lightsaber. Hey, only Force sensitive individual weld those but I saw the expression on Finn's face and his combat style and I had my doubts. But I was hopeful.

    So what I hopeful for? A young black protagonist in a scifi film franchise. Why? BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE! NONE? Yes sir, none. So many men in the black nerd culture have been craving a black young black male hero. And with those trailers you get the impression that Finn was going to be that character. Why? Because he was welding the lightsaber. I even told my girlfriend, that I knew that Rey was going to be a Jedi. If Finn is not then I was going to be upset and if he dies in the film then I was not going to watch any other episode in the franchise. She was shocked because she knows how much I love Star Wars. But I digress. It looked as if in Finn were going to be that character. I am a black man and I showed the first trailer to my nephew who is black and latino (just like Miles Morales). When my 16 year old nephew saw that first full trailer, he mouth was wide open in awe. Because he saw Finn with that lightsaber and that trailer was incredible. He even said that he had never seen that before. Why? Because there are no young black male protagonist in scifi action movies. NONE! He was extremely excited. Hell I have a difficult time finding scifi/fantasy novels with a black male protagonist. They are extremely rare. So my point is with the marketing most people who are just causal fans thought that Finn was the protagonist. I have to say that with all the marketing I thought that the story was going to be about the badass pilot (Po), the badass Jedi(Rey) and the badass soldier (Finn). [.....]
    Thank you so much for this fantastic and well though out post.

    Let me start by saying I myself am a 22 year old black man. The actor who plays Finn is not only my age (23 years old) he's also born to Nigerian parents same as me (fun fact)! The only things that actually separate us are a year in age and he's from London and I'm from the U.S. Other than that I can LITERALLY see myself in that character.

    I myself LOVED for the character he was and him looking like me was just a big fat bonus. So I'm a little disappointed when I hear other young black men didn't see the character that they wanted in Finn. But at the same time I can not only appreciate that but I can even sympathize with that to a pretty big degree. If I'm looking at things in the context of just this one film without accounting for the others Finn is a little shortchanged in the department of the fantastic. As I said before he's not a war hero, ace pilot, general, or force prodigy. He's a guy who was throw into a situation bigger than himself.

    Objectively I can see why that's not favorable. Why's the character that looks like me the one who's the least capable? Why can't he be a Jedi? Why can't he win a confrontation on his own? Why's there so much that goes into showing the strength and capability of the female character ("the other minority") and not any push to do the same with the character that looks like me? I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel that no matter how small (because in reality I ended up loving him).

    He did in fact look like a Jedi with nearly all his promotional work involving a lightsaber. Did you know Samuel L Jackson actually came up to John Boyega (Finn) at a party and said "black Jedi" with joy in his voice? It's pretty clear that a lot of us were (and still are) rooting for this idea. Yes, yes people can throw their "well Han was awesome but he wasn't a Jedi" at me and that's true, but then that's not what it was looking like for Finn. He wasn't presenting himself (in the marketing) as the swashbuckling Han type. He looked like a noob Jedi to be. I think it's pretty fair to say that, right? I mean the last black Jedi we got was an emotionless footnote in the plot and saga. The last black "Han type" we got was the one who gave up our heroes to the bad guys and had to make up for it.

    So yeah a black character who has such a unique origin as being and ex stromtrooper becoming a Jedi would be really nice, if I'm being honest. I'm not ashamed to admit that. It's why I gravitate so hard to the idea that he'll be that "there is another" in these movies. It's why I gravitate so hard to the idea that he'll be dual protagonist along with Rey. I don't think it's boring or typical. I don't think it's asking the story to bend over backwards, and I don't think it's a bad idea. I think it actually fits the narrative quite well. Simply because only a Skywalker and an evil dictator has had the force in our original trilogy, I don't see why that has to be the norm from now on. It's not as if every other character in this new trilogy is going to have a lightsaber ala episodes 1-3. IT'S JUST ONE GUY. One guy not named Skywalker. Why is that so far off the table, those in opposition to Finn being a Jedi? Why?


    With that said: I still loved Finn in this movie from top to bottom. Set aside me telling you that personal stuff. In fact I didn't want to actually bring that because I didn't want my opinions colored in anyone's mind as "oh he likes Finn just because he's black" because that's not true at all. I just wanted to repay your openness with some of my own. In reality I can and have disliked or flat out despised some black characters just off them being poorly written by standards of any character. But Finn really clicked for me as a character. Remember when I said he's the least fantastic of the bunch? Well I loved that. It made him that much more human. As I've said before in this thread, this movie doesn't work without Finn, period. If he's not there then everyone else remain these monoliths. Some regress to shells of nostalgia that are waiting to be written out. We don't get to see the real human imperfections because those other characters have so much backing them be it power or reputation.

    Finn is a new start. He's also the character that we follow the most throughout the movie. Next film I'm hoping that he does wake up a force sensitive and keeps up his dual protagonist role along with Rey for her sake as well as his. If Finn is allowed to be just as much of the hero than it'll allow Rey to have her real moments of humanizing failure, selfishness, fear, and sadness because Finn will be there to pick up the heroic slack just as she was for him in this one.

    So yes while I liked--no loved the character as we got him in this movie. I see, want, and appreciate the need for him to show himself as even more. And I'm not talking about becoming a good fighter or whatever. I'm talking about making good on that promotional work and giving you, me, and your 16 year old nephew what we were hoping for. Wouldn't it be the greatest double misdirect to have them promote him as a Jedi, then subvert that and have Rey as the Jedi, then show that he in fact was a Jedi too? I would more than love that.

    It's a serialized format ala Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers. It's very much about not showing all it's card on the first go and leaving it for the big payoff later once we've reclined back in our seats thinking we know what's good only to fling forward and have our world changed. So hold out hope, and thank you again for replying!
    Last edited by Superlad93; 12-26-2015 at 01:51 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Poe destroys Starkiller Base after Finn told them how to do that.
    Yes but the little kid isn't at home replying the "Finn turns off the shield" moment over and over in his/her head. They're replaying the "Poe blows the holy F#%K out of the StarKiller Base" moment. Like in basketball, that nice pass isn't going up on the fathead. That dunk after the pass is.

    Rey ended up getting one-hit KOed by Ren when he smacks her into a tree.
    Yeah and then she gets instant gratification for that by beating Ren in single combat while Finn does not.

    Also, without Finn, Rey is not even getting a Lighsaber in that fight anyway.
    So then the delivery boy?

    I made this thread because I REALLY loved the character. I love how hard he tries. I love how unassuming a hero he is. I love that he's the least spectacular in a room full of legends and monsters. And I even love the idea that he could never quite win. But I have no counter to the idea that he didn't really get his moment (in THIS movie. Remember it's an ongoing saga) like all the other characters in the action. When ever that little kid is recreating the lightsaber fights Finn was in they have to ultimately lose.

    But as I've said time and time again. It's the slow burn that our hero Finn is on. It's that same sort of build up that Luke had, but in this case it's far and away more realistic. I can't wait to see what's next for our young hero.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I can't agree with you. Luke's whole life story hadn't been given to us either in IV, but enough information was provided that we could understand where his incredible luck seemed to come from. That's not the case with Rey.
    Then we watched different movies. Because so many things were laid out about Rey its crazy. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to see her as very powerful and in tune with the Force ala Anakin, Luke, and Leia.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Thank you so much for this fantastic and well though out post.

    Let me start by saying I myself am a 22 year old black man. The actor who plays Finn is not only my age (23 years old) he's also born to Nigerian parents same as me (fun fact)! The only things that actually separate us are a year in age and he's from London and I'm from the U.S. Other than that I can LITERALLY see myself in that character.

    I myself LOVED for the character he was and him looking like me was just a big fat bonus. So I'm a little disappointed when I hear other young black men didn't see the character that they wanted in Finn. But at the same time I can not only appreciate that but I can even sympathize with that to a pretty big degree. If I'm looking at things in the context of just this one film without accounting for the others Finn is a little shortchanged in the department of the fantastic. As I said before he's not a war hero, ace pilot, general, or force prodigy. He's a guy who was throw into a situation bigger than himself.

    Objectively I can see why that's not favorable. Why's the character that looks like me the one who's the least capable? Why can't he be a Jedi? Why can't he win a confrontation on his own? Why's there so much that goes into showing the strength and capability of the female character ("the other minority") and not any push to do the same with the character that looks like me? I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel that no matter how small (because in reality I ended up loving him).

    He did in fact look like a Jedi with nearly all his promotional work involving a lightsaber. Did you know Samuel L Jackson actually came up to John Boyega (Finn) at a party and said "black Jedi" with joy in his voice? It's pretty clear that a lot of us were (and still are) rooting for this idea. Yes, yes people can throw their "well Han was awesome but he wasn't a Jedi" at me and that's true, but then that's not what it was looking like for Finn. He wasn't presenting himself (in the marketing) as the swashbuckling Han type. He looked like a noob Jedi to be. I think it's pretty fair to say that, right? I mean the last black Jedi we got was an emotionless footnote in the plot and saga. The last black "Han type" we got was the one who gave up our heroes to the bad guys and had to make up for it.

    So yeah a black character who has such a unique origin as being and ex stromtrooper becoming a Jedi would be really nice, if I'm being honest. I'm not ashamed to admit that. It's why I gravitate so hard to the idea that he'll be that "there is another" in these movies. It's why I gravitate so hard to the idea that he'll be dual protagonist along with Rey. I don't think it's boring or typical. I don't think it's asking the story to bend over backwards, and I don't think it's a bad idea. I think it actually fits the narrative quite well. Simply because only a Skywalker and an evil dictator has had the force in our original trilogy, I don't see why that has to be the norm from now on. It's not as if every other character in this new trilogy is going to have a lightsaber ala episodes 1-3. IT'S JUST ONE GUY. One guy not named Skywalker. Why is that so far off the table, those in opposition to Finn being a Jedi? Why?


    With that said: I still loved Finn in this movie from top to bottom. Set aside me telling you that personal stuff. In fact I didn't want to actually bring that because I didn't want my opinions colored in anyone's mind as "oh he likes Finn just because he's black" because that's not true at all. I just wanted to repay your openness with some of my own. In reality I can and have disliked or flat out despised some black characters just off them being poorly written by standards of any character. But Finn really clicked for me as a character. Remember when I said he's the least fantastic of the bunch? Well I loved that. It made him that much more human. As I've said before in this thread, this movie doesn't work without Finn, period. If he's not there then everyone else remain these monoliths. Some regress to shells of nostalgia that are waiting to be written out. We don't get to see the real human imperfections because those other characters have so much backing them be it power or reputation.

    Finn is a new start. He's also the character that we follow the most throughout the movie. Next film I'm hoping that he does wake up a force sensitive and keeps up his dual protagonist role along with Rey for her sake as well as his. If Finn is allowed to be just as much of the hero than it'll allow Rey to have her real moments of humanizing failure, selfishness, fear, and sadness because Finn will be there to pick up the heroic slack just as she was for him in this one.

    So yes while I liked--no loved the character as we got him in this movie. I see, want, and appreciate the need for him to show himself as even more. And I'm not talking about becoming a good fighter or whatever. I'm talking about making good on that promotional work and giving you, me, and your 16 year old nephew what we were hoping for. Wouldn't it be the greatest double misdirect to have them promote him as a Jedi, then subvert that and have Rey as the Jedi, then show that he in fact was a Jedi too? I would more than love that.

    It's a serialized format ala Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers. It's very much about not showing all it's card on the first go and leaving it for the big payoff later once we've reclined back in our seats thinking we know what's good only to fling forward and have our world changed. So hold out hope, and thank you again for replying!

    Outstanding post, and sums up my feelings also. I'm considered an alpha by some people I know because I take charge frequently. It's just a personality trait I have. I don't consider myself an alpha, I'll gladly step aside to let someone else get the win. It just doesn't matter to me as long as it gets done. I see Finn the same way. Everything good that happened was due to him being there. I appreciate it. Whats funny is that Finn isn't ALLOWED to not be the Hero. Rey Isn't allowed to not Succeed. Poe is written to be the badass, even though he goes through his own issues also. Him being a Latino made no difference, as it should for Rey and Finn. They aren't allowed to not be badasses, because people expected them to be.

    Gotta tamp down those expectations and enjoy the film.
    I highly enjoyed Phasma, even though she played a small role. Because I know she'll get to do more later, and I'm okay with waiting. I grew up watching Flash Gordon, Nyoka, and other serials. I've learned to be patient in my impatience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    Outstanding post, and sums up my feelings also. I'm considered an alpha by some people I know because I take charge frequently. It's just a personality trait I have. I don't consider myself an alpha, I'll gladly step aside to let someone else get the win. It just doesn't matter to me as long as it gets done. I see Finn the same way. Everything good that happened was due to him being there. I appreciate it. Whats funny is that Finn isn't ALLOWED to not be the Hero. Rey Isn't allowed to not Succeed. Poe is written to be the badass, even though he goes through his own issues also. Him being a Latino made no difference, as it should for Rey and Finn. They aren't allowed to not be badasses, because people expected them to be.
    Thank you for the kind words and insight into yourself. I really appreciate both. I also agree, Finn is a guy of necessity. He's not doing what he does in the film out of duty, honor, or even the kindness of his heart. The film beautifully establishes that in the first 10 minutes of Finn's time in the movie. Finn get's out of the First Order because he's very clearly scared and emotionally conflicted. He helps Poe not because "it's the right thing to do" but because he need a pilot, plain and simple. Finn's also a fundamentally good person. He won't slaughter the people in the first scene, and he tries to help a stranger who's in trouble. BUT he's not a freaking superhero. He's reasonably good and reasonably scared.

    Even in the very end of things it's for selfish reasons why he helps save the day. He just wants to get back his friend that he's made a very strong bond with. If it helps save the galaxy then that's a bonus. I love that!! He's just this utterly human character that's pushing himself more and more to face greater and greater odds.

    I'm okay with waiting. I grew up watching Flash Gordon, Nyoka, and other serials. I've learned to be patient in my impatience.
    Yeah that's really it, isn't it? It's a saga of development rather perfect resolution. Finn, more than any character in not only this film but Star Wars, encapsulates this idea and I really appreciate that.

    With that said, what are your thoughts on "Finn will be a Jedi" theory? I think there's a lot of subtle evidence that gets (purposefully) misdirected away because of the spectacle and not so subtle visual callbacks of Rey. Why are your thoughts on all that?

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    Sure there is evidence I guess but like so much in this movie super inconclusive and after this marketing campaign best not to hope too much

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Sure there is evidence I guess but like so much in this movie super inconclusive and after this marketing campaign best not to hope too much
    Finn being marketed as a "Jedi" in the trailers is not the end of the world.

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    I didn't know what I would think of Finn, based on the trailers, but after I saw the movie I thought he and Poe were the most likable/charismatic new characters in Star Wars. Charismatic characters were something missing in the prequels, and Boyega & Isaac's on-screen chemistry was great. I hope to see them together more in the upcoming films.

    I will be disappointed if Finn doesn't end up becoming a jedi.


    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    But let talk about Finn. Before I get into my thoughts about the character, it is interesting to see how different groups interpret Finn. Or more specific, one group in general sees him differently. I listen to a lot of podcasts especially ones that focus on scifi and fantasy media. And all demographics seem to enjoy Finn as a character with the exception of some members of one group, black men.

    But why have so many black men expressed so much displeasure in the characterization of Finn. I think it stars with how they marketed The Force Awakens. In the first full teaser trailer you hear the voice over about an awakening in the force and you the first face you see in Finn. You also see that he has been raised to do one thing, fight, but now he has nothing to fight for. Later in the first trailer you see Finn welding the lightsaber and one can assume that he will weld the force. You do not see any other protagonist welding the saber. Now I have to say that any true fan of Star Wars that watched the marketing knew that the Rey character was designed in the mold of Anakin and Luke in location and dress. But back to Finn. Finn's TV spot was marketed on shows like Empire welding that lightsaber. Hey, only Force sensitive individual weld those but I saw the expression on Finn's face and his combat style and I had my doubts. But I was hopeful.

    So what I hopeful for? A young black protagonist in a scifi film franchise. Why? BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE! NONE? Yes sir, none. So many men in the black nerd culture have been craving a black young black male hero. And with those trailers you get the impression that Finn was going to be that character. Why? Because he was welding the lightsaber. I even told my girlfriend, that I knew that Rey was going to be a Jedi. If Finn is not then I was going to be upset and if he dies in the film then I was not going to watch any other episode in the franchise. She was shocked because she knows how much I love Star Wars. But I digress. It looked as if in Finn were going to be that character. I am a black man and I showed the first trailer to my nephew who is black and latino (just like Miles Morales). When my 16 year old nephew saw that first full trailer, he mouth was wide open in awe. Because he saw Finn with that lightsaber and that trailer was incredible. He even said that he had never seen that before. Why? Because there are no young black male protagonist in scifi action movies. NONE! He was extremely excited. Hell I have a difficult time finding scifi/fantasy novels with a black male protagonist. They are extremely rare. So my point is with the marketing most people who are just causal fans thought that Finn was the protagonist. I have to say that with all the marketing I thought that the story was going to be about the badass pilot (Po), the badass Jedi(Rey) and the badass soldier (Finn).

    I immediately thought of a few Black male sci-fi protagonists while reading your post...Laurence Fishburne in Event Horizon, Will Smith in Independence Day/I Am Legend/Men In Black (and 1 or 2 other sci-fi films), Samuel L Jackson in the SW prequels (Although he was a supporting character), and Wesley Snipes in Blade (If that counts)....But none of them fit the "young" part of the demographic you mentioned, as all were in their 30s-50s in those films.

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    Indeed cant think of young hero option and those arent really recent.

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    That's because essentially Finn is the only one.

    Which is why people are clamoring for his story to get expansion and for him to become a Jedi, and a powerful one at that.

    If he just ended all 3 movies in the same role he had in the first movie many people would be extremely disappointed.


    Eventhough women are not as highly represented in terms of a main slot we need to look at what's going on here in the media.

    Just had an entire series based upon one, called Hunger Games with Katniss.
    Getting a Captain Marvel movie, AND a Wonder Woman movie.
    Just had Jessica Jones be one of the biggest shows Netflix ever had.
    Mystique was essentially the main character in X-Men days of Future Past
    Mystique is also getting the most screentime in all of the X-Men: Apocalypse trailer and even appears to be the leader of the X-Men in Charles absence (INSTEAD of Magneto)

    So it's not like they've been misrepresented lately. Rey's character is important because of her impact in the Star Wars world, but the 'leading lady as a main item' thing isn't as rare the past 5-6 years as it was maybe the previous 10. There's a LOT of female heroes that have come up the past few years that are not only leading ladies but main cogs within the movies they are in and easy to look up to or make hero out of. Even Black Widow who has yet to get her own movie has a supremely large following among girls.

    So yes, the opportunity is there.

    But then you ask when's the last young black male protagonist in an action sci-fi or superhero film ... you won't get much of an answer.


    I do love when it was said

    Laurence Fishburne in Event Horizon, Will Smith in Independence Day/I Am Legend/Men In Black (and 1 or 2 other sci-fi films), Samuel L Jackson in the SW prequels (Although he was a supporting character), and Wesley Snipes in Blade (If that counts)....But none of them fit the "young" part of the demographic you mentioned, as all were in their 30s-50s in those films.

    Because it's true. We were even getting a Black Panther movie... which has now been pushed back by two years because of Spider-Man. And even then, Black Panther is another character in his 30s-50s. Young demographic is lost upon him. Also look at his placement



    1) He's in the Back
    2) The comedic "meow" is put there....
    3) HE STILL HAS HIS MASK ON...

    How this hasn't sparked more of a discussion is beyond me honestly... those are three things with the approach to the marketing of this guy..

    Compare it to how Wonder Woman is being promoted in the magazine cover



    Wonder Woman is front and center.. SHE is the menacing force.. SHE gets the glam shot of the trailer. Despite the movie being about Batman and Superman SHE gets a "shine" moment in one of the most memorable parts of the trailer and she is directly in the center of the trinity and what connects them.

    Compare that to how Black Panther is marketed and you see the difference.


    For as much as Rey is praised for her importance to women in film, which is true... if you compare it to Young Black protagonist, female leading protagonists are MUCH often seen now than Black young male protagonists have been, not even in the past 5-10 years, EVER.


    The difference is very clear.

    This is another reason why people are rooting for Finn to become more than he appeared to be, to be a Jedi or even to be the one that saves the galaxy, coming from nothing and being the guy that saves the galaxy. Which has never been done with a Black Young Male.

    Whenever we see what I call the 'dances with wolves' format, it is usually, guy comes from nothing, gets forced into a dire situation of intergalactic significance or otherwise, winds up changing the culture and saving the day. We see this in movies like John Carter, or the movie that Star Wars is now trying to beat, Avatar. We rarely if ever and I mean EVER see a young black male put in this predicament, as has been said he is usually the comic sidekick with well intentions, or just a vehicle for the protagonist.


    You also can't compare Han to Finn.

    Why? Because in Episode IV alone

    Han had an awesome scene where he shot Geedo.
    Han was the reason they escaped Tattoine and was the great pilot that lead to it.
    Han lead them into the Death Star and helped Luke rescue the princess
    Han faced down a group of Stormtroopers by himself and had awesome scenes.
    Han coached luke through using the weapons
    Han was the one THEY WANTED to go on the Death Star mission, but he departed.
    HAN was the one that returned and blew up the other ships saving Luke from getting blown up so he COULD blow up the Death Star.
    Han was a hero whom got a medal at the end of the film standing triumphantly with Luke.


    If Finn had gotten all that then no one would be complaining.

    HECK if Finn had found a way to defeat Kylo Ren without the obvious force sensitivity and saved Rey for once when he found what he wanted to fight for. Remember Finn was said to have the potential to be the greatest warrior that the First Order had ever turned out, but for some reason something held him back. So having him awaken that inside of him, and actually defeat Kylo Ren while saving Rey whom is the Jedi to be, would have been AWESOME and I think a lot of people hoped for even if he wasn't Force sensitive. A warrior without the force that can handle a lightsaber as well as be a deadeye shot with a blaster? YES... Finn would be awesome if he was that.

    Heck even if Finn lost to Captain Phasma(who was the riot stormtrooper) it would have been interesting and set up their rivalry.


    Instead, Finn loses every battle he has, which says something to his bravery, and winds up failing to save Rey each time he tries, and winds up being saved by her. He has no triumpant moment, he has no time where he comes back for Rey.

    HECK.. imagine if Rey and Finn had gotten seperated, and SHE started the fight with Kylo Ren with the lightsaber, and despite being force sensitive is defeated, because she hasn't learned everything about the Force yet and gets knocked into the tree. And then Kylo knocks her back into the tree and before pulling the Saber to himself, and Finn intercepting it instead.

    Kylo going "THAT belongs to me.."

    and Finn lighting it up and going "Come and get it!" and then THEM having the fight and Finn holding his own and even striking Kylo Ren a few times, but ultimately Kylo's use of the force being an advantage and knocking Finn backwards. Have Finn best Kylo Ren in hand to hand(or saber to saber) combat, but have Kylo's force usage give him the advantage(as in he can knock Finn back) and then have Rey whom has woken up, come into the battle and use the Force knocking Ren back and have them BOTH defeat him. Then they can still be separated by the separating forest area and Kylo can fall 'to his death" but not really.

    Have Finn give Rey the Lightsaber and go "I think this is meant to belong to you." and Rey going "You seemed pretty good with it yourself." and Finn going "Eh.. I prefer my blaster.".

    They can share a small laugh, smile and glance at each other, before Chewie shows up in the Millennium Falcon to interrupt the moment.

    BOOM...

    You just made both characters look strong, Finn is a bad mofo and Rey is another one to be, and they work as a TEAM and it's obvious why they need each other and work together so well.

    SOMETHING LIKE THAT would have been GREAT! and again, Finn isn't force sensitive but no one would complain, because it would be obvious that he's needed in order to save the galaxy along with Rey and Poe.

    This is what you do if you wanted to put Finn in the Han Solo-like role.

    But that isn't what happened.

    And THIS is why people are forming theories and HOPING with all their heart and soul that Finn will become that kind of character in the next film, throughout the series or becomes a Jedi. Because there is NO ONE else... just Finn and he is the ONLY on that ever got promoted like he was the main factor in the film or potentially the main character. This is something that has NEVER been seen before, and that is why fans, young black males/females and old alike are so desperate for it to happen.

    I can only hope that this was the plan and those fans get what they truly want and Finn becomes every bit of that and more.
    Last edited by Majesty; 12-26-2015 at 07:31 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsay Snow View Post
    I immediately thought of a few Black male sci-fi protagonists while reading your post...Laurence Fishburne in Event Horizon, Will Smith in Independence Day/I Am Legend/Men In Black (and 1 or 2 other sci-fi films), Samuel L Jackson in the SW prequels (Although he was a supporting character), and Wesley Snipes in Blade (If that counts)....But none of them fit the "young" part of the demographic you mentioned, as all were in their 30s-50s in those films.
    Yah, really good point. Very few young, black male protagonists, and even fewer of them are allowed to make mistakes or allowed to look less than godly, let alone a journey.

    I'll be very disappointed there isn't further growth with Finn in future movies, because it's true...we've NEVER seen a black protagonist make a growth journey; most of them start relatively high and end very high. We've never seen one start in their youth and end up a mature character.

    (And I hope Finn's fate is inter-twined with Rey's....not necessarily romantically, but destiny-wise...it would be an interesting twist on the tale if the fate rested on two individuals, not just one....).

  14. #74
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwangung View Post
    Yah, really good point. Very few young, black male protagonists, and even fewer of them are allowed to make mistakes or allowed to look less than godly, let alone a journey.

    I'll be very disappointed there isn't further growth with Finn in future movies, because it's true...we've NEVER seen a black protagonist make a growth journey; most of them start relatively high and end very high. We've never seen one start in their youth and end up a mature character.
    This is SO true. It's one of the reasons why Finn is such a great addition to the myth. He must have a VERY big payoff waiting for him.

    (And I hope Finn's fate is inter-twined with Rey's....not necessarily romantically, but destiny-wise...it would be an interesting twist on the tale if the fate rested on two individuals, not just one....).
    I'm really hoping for this too. I really do think we're looking at a "there is another" sort of situation. The subtle hints at the force and FN-2187 with 2187 being Leia's cell number!

  15. #75
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    The way I see it is that, right or wrong, Finn is in the Leia role from the first movie. He's the one with the mission to deliver the map (plans to the death star) and, although he assists in his own escape (rescue), he doesn't really do that much beyond that (action-wise). He's the one who gets BB8 to reveal the location of the base (just as Leia guided the heroes to the rebellion after her rescue) He also gets the 'stand up to the bad guy' scene as Leia did with Darth when he faces off with Phasma.

    Poe is taking over for Han as the best pilot, and Rey? Rey is both Luke (Jedi) and Han (pilot/mechanic) simply to keep people guessing as to whose kid she is

    However, this entire plot fails if it weren't for Finn. If he hadn't had the guts to leave, if he hadn't taken up where Poe left off chasing after BB-8 *and* warned Rey, if he hadn't delivered the plans *and* shown the Rebels the way into the Starkiller base...

    He was critical to the entire plot, just as Leia was the first time around.

    I loved Finn and can't wait to see him do more in the sequels. This time around, it was Rey and Poe's turn to be the Big Damn Heroes, but Finn was the driving force that kept the plot moving, and I'm sure he'll have his day!

    I do hope they don't make the same mistake with Finn as they did with Leia, though, and have him 'sensitive' to the force and 'there is another' who never reaches their potential.

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