Was Norman Osborn Right?

[Ant-manic]

Then who tricked him into blowing up his house?

some scurrying street thugs? could have been worse. could have been one of his Dark Avengers; gone mad after remembering that she had two kids at one point.

[stingnewell]

those minis were full of continuity errors. all of the individual Dark Avengers were portrayed as significantly more brutal than they were in the main title. compare Gargan's doped up/semi-pacifist demeanor in Dark Avengers to his rebellious prostitute-eating depiction in Sinister Spider-man.

At least the minis show their characteristic better than the main title. Most of it was either filled with Osborn and Sentry and Victoria Hand. While the others were just either wall paper
or characteristics were reduced to being sluts Moonstone. Besides I expect them to show their evil side just as you hate Doom fans for their thinking he's noble.

[Ant-manic]

At least the minis show their characteristic better than the main title. Most of it was either filled with Osborn and Sentry and Victoria Hand. While the others were just either wall paper
or characteristics were reduced to being sluts Moonstone. Besides I expect them to show their evil side just as you hate Doom fans for their thinking he's noble.

i'd also expect they and Osborn to be a lot smarter about it. Moonstone dropping someone to their death in public makes absolutely no sense. she was one of the original Thunderbolts. she knows about concealing her sociopathy. and Norman is a politically savvy businessman. he would have used everything at his disposal to maintain the illusion. i hate sloppy writing.

[stingnewell]

i'd also expect they and Osborn to be a lot smarter about it. Moonstone dropping someone to their death in public makes absolutely no sense. she was one of the original Thunderbolts. she knows about concealing her sociopathy. and Norman is a politically savvy businessman. he would have used everything at his disposal to maintain the illusion. i hate sloppy writing.

Hey its Dark Avengers it was sloppy from the get go.

[The Overlord]

I can understand the criticism against Norman Osborns control of the world. Rome controlled the world for 2000 years by the same despotic action. I'm not saying Osborn is a great leader who gives justice. I'm saying Osborn makes a satisfactory leader, that keeps super heroes away from the tools that have wrecked the Marvel Universe.

I do think there can be an argument that a despot, like the one who ruled Yugoslavia, (not that this example is satisfactory, because it has been proven that freedom worked better), can stop people from tearing each other apart, and that this is preferable to an outcome which is terminal, as it is now in the MU. I just think the super heroes did a pretty bad job of it. Thinking back, in Osborns Dark Reign, that would never have happened, because the villains were less complicated and there wouldn't have been any criminal activity that would lead to all out war or the destruction of Space-Time.

Doom would have had less reason to disagree with Osborn, if Osborn destroyed the Avengers. I think the FF and the mutants would have packed up and left for places elsewhere, so that Osborns Dark Avengers couldn't find them. Okay, the gen pop wouldn't have as rosy a walk down the street anymore, but how would their fate be compared to what it is now? I think I see at least 2 maybe 3 realities playing out right now one of which destroyed the Earth, and another, (Ultimate Universe) that had been destroyed 3 times already. Apart from the lack of judice prudence, the Dark Reign was a relative calm period.

If you want to continue the Roman comparison, Osborn seems more similar to Nero or Caligula, then any other Roman Emperor. Frankly the heroes have succeeded time and time again in saving the world and I see no evidence that Osborn cared at all about making the world a better place. Osborn is not one of these sympathetic villains who might have a valid point, Osborn is monster with no redeeming values and gave license to the likes of Bulleye and even potentially the Red Skull to do whatever they wanted. A benevolent dictatorship cannot work if the dictator is not benevolent and Osborn doesn't fit that bill.

[jackolover]

but the villains always mess up that is how it works. They are often more powerful but they lose because of stupidity, carelessness or ego. I don't know what you mean about the void being this over arching power that never happened.

What I mean is Norman used Void as his body guard and enforcer. Osborn was attacked by the Punisher with a spire rifle and the Sentry got him and almost killed him. Doom tried to attack Osborn and Sentry disintegrated all Dooms weapons. How are the incidental criminals going to go up against that?

[jackolover]

So what happens when Hope gets the PF if the heroes are scattered and no one is set up to help her? Never mind Ultron the world is already gone.

Norman in a lunatic who puts on a good face. That does not make him any less a loon. Do you really think he would have stopped at the US borders if he got his way. Doom was already figuring out ways to take him down. He would have had little trouble gathering an opposing force if he needed one.

A dictator can make the trains run on time that does not mean it is a better life.

I don't think Norman would have even noticed the Phoenix arriving and doing something to the mutants. I don't think he cares. As for Ultron, if the Intelligencia didn't fiddle with the Space Knight, then Ultron would not have evolved, but if he did anyway, I think the Sentry would have destroyed him, if the Dark Avengers got to Ultron.

No I don't think Osborn would have stopped at the US borders. I think Osborn would have destroyed the military of the US and unless nukes were used, Osborn would have deposed Obama.

Unfortunately, Doom was taken care of by Wakanda so Doom was left a beaten quantity.

A dictator can make the world keep turning, but super heroes destroy time.

[jackolover]

that is an interpration that has nothing in the comics to back itup. Where did you gwet that idea on his motivation from
In almost all of those cases the heroes had little or no choice in whether they got involved, not getting involved would simply be suicidal for Earth in most of those cases

So what are you saying? That super heroes did a good job? How does that go with the current situation the Marvel Universe finds itself in now? It looks like the MU has about 6 months left before the world is splintered into so many realities, we won't know which book is real and which book is to be ignored. Marvel have turned the MU into a reality with no grounding anymore.

[jackolover]

Pfft, the future is never set in stone in Marvel.
As to Norman was right, clearly the author has not read enough Green Goblin.
He's more Red Skull than Magneto and Doom. But I say let him live in his world with the Cyclops and Magneto was right fans.

Have you read the Red Skull? That guy turns the world into Nazi world every time he's got a plan. At least Norman liked the system he was in and tried to protect it.

[stingnewell]

So what are you saying? That super heroes did a good job? How does that go with the current situation the Marvel Universe finds itself in now? It looks like the MU has about 6 months left before the world is splintered into so many realities, we won't know which book is real and which book is to be ignored. Marvel have turned the MU into a reality with no grounding anymore.

If you want grounding just read an indie title.

[jackolover]

What a well written Paen to fascism, using the facists primary PR method, we will keep you thing and things under our control. Freedom and justice are just hindrances to an orderly and safe world. Safe unless like in Osborn case you happen to get in the way like a whole newsroom did, but you have to break a few eggs to get the omelet you want.

In regards to the Marvel Universe, it pretty much looks that way. With the Super heroes running things, the freedoms were what killed the MU as it looks today. Overuse of their freedom to use time travel is what caused all this trouble, because they were too naive to realise what they were using.

And I don't think the Marvel 616 population are all that interested in justice either from their record on mutants. The whole of human history is one war after another, and murder solving their problems. It's nice to think that humans are an idealistic creature with aims higher than their abilities, but the reality is, Man is a savage creature and that negates all the wonderful ideals he preaches to himself about how deserving he is to live better. It's never going to get better, while the wars and murders are a common part of the human condition. You might as well try to remove that tendency from his DNA.

So you have to break some eggshells to make an omelette.

[jackolover]

If you want grounding just read an indie title.

Marvel had grounding up to the Heroic Age, and then it all went to pieces in a manner of speaking. I liked it fine up till what is starting to be realised in the books today.

[MichaelC]

Osborn seemed extremely unambitious during his term in office. He just seemed to want all the other villains to be quiet, and basically join him in being quietly corrupt parasites. His motto at meetings with other villains seemed to be, basically, "I've won, and I'm happy to give all of you a taste of the sweet life if you just be quiet and don't rock the boat". He seemed genuinely flabbergasted and frustrated when other villains weren't content to join him in a life of quiet parasitism.

[Ant-manic]

If you want to continue the Roman comparison, Osborn seems more similar to Nero or Caligula, then any other Roman Emperor. Frankly the heroes have succeeded time and time again in saving the world and I see no evidence that Osborn cared at all about making the world a better place. Osborn is not one of these sympathetic villains who might have a valid point, Osborn is monster with no redeeming values and gave license to the likes of Bulleye and even potentially the Red Skull to do whatever they wanted. A benevolent dictatorship cannot work if the dictator is not benevolent and Osborn doesn't fit that bill.

one of Norman's strengths was in not becoming a dictator. unlike your Doom's or Magneto's, he doesn't see himself as the only one that can get the job done. Osborn knows how to delegate and negotiate (like the deal he made w/ the goblin personality). he knows that he, himself, isn't invincible. and it's definately not about being sympathetic. Norman considers himself to be a self-made man/ the american dream personified. the parts of Dark Reign that did work, worked because people gravitated towards that image Osborn was projecting.

[pageturner]

What I mean is Norman used Void as his body guard and enforcer. Osborn was attacked by the Punisher with a spire rifle and the Sentry got him and almost killed him. Doom tried to attack Osborn and Sentry disintegrated all Dooms weapons. How are the incidental criminals going to go up against that?

so you are assuming after he killed off all the heroes he was going to go about catching crooks? Why would you think that would happen.