Was Norman Osborn Right?

[Mikekerr3]

Have you read the Red Skull? That guy turns the world into Nazi world every time he's got a plan. At least Norman liked the system he was in and tried to protect it.

Osborn was quite clearly destroying the system to suit his purposes, what books were you reading?

[Mikekerr3]

In regards to the Marvel Universe, it pretty much looks that way. With the Super heroes running things, the freedoms were what killed the MU as it looks today. Overuse of their freedom to use time travel is what caused all this trouble, because they were too naive to realise what they were using.

And I don't think the Marvel 616 population are all that interested in justice either from their record on mutants. The whole of human history is one war after another, and murder solving their problems. It's nice to think that humans are an idealistic creature with aims higher than their abilities, but the reality is, Man is a savage creature and that negates all the wonderful ideals he preaches to himself about how deserving he is to live better. It's never going to get better, while the wars and murders are a common part of the human condition. You might as well try to remove that tendency from his DNA.

So you have to break some eggshells to make an omelette.

You can move to a nation that values authority above all now in the real world, I think that North Korea suites your attitude well. And if you climb out of you paranoid funk you will see that the world has been getting slowly better for a few thousand years. . The world of the 19th century was hell by modern standards, and the twentieth might just as well be called the age of monsters since the number of people who murdered by the millions is quite substatial. If mankind has been closer to a golden age I don't know when it might have been, It ain't great but its getting very much better.

[Link]

If anything you know what this thread has shown me? There are to many meta humans on earth in the MU lol. I would actually be interested in reading a comic about a normal person living in this world. Imagine the stress level and anxiety people must have living and working in Manhattan. Imagine what traffic has to be like during their commute to and from work because of the meta human battles.

[jackolover]

Bendis wrote " The Oral History of Earths Mightiest Heroes" during the Heroic Age, and you could tell the Avengers weren't in control of the situation in those early years the Avengers were formed, especially when Enchantress and Executioner showed up. Hank Pym said it in the interview, that there was no jail you could keep powerhouses like these in. There was no plan about that, but Hank was going to change that. (I wonder what Hank pym's plan was?). I don't think the revolving door prisons were capable of holding these sorts of beings, so the super heroes had to resort to more and more extreme measures. They sort of panicked and now the whole Earth is paying for it.

And also, here's something Iron Man said at the start of the Heroic Age, at the cusp of the Kang breaking the time stream, and reality was cascading around the Avengers. They were in a cave and about to come out and see stuff, so Tony warned them :

"Hey listen, all of you...I maybe should have said this before.... But we're going to see things that are going to...they are going to RATTLE us. We're going to see a future that we have to assume is the WORST version of the future we have coming to us. Plus, we have no idea how real it is or how damaged it is. We're going to see friends and family...either dead or gone or in a bad way.. I need you guys to be able to hold it together, no matter WHAT we see". In that future sequence, Bucky wanted to shoot Kang and solve the problem. Maybe that was a good thing to do?

Sounds familiar in the ANMN current MU, doesn't it? Luckily, the super heroes had already experienced this sort of thing, otherwise, Dimension Z and Planet X, and, the Incursion realities would have shocked everybody. But it was pretty much presaged in the early Heroic Age already before Space-Time was broken (in Age of Ultron) and the effects.

[Alvarez]

If anything you know what this thread has shown me? There are to many meta humans on earth in the MU lol. I would actually be interested in reading a comic about a normal person living in this world. Imagine the stress level and anxiety people must have living and working in Manhattan. Imagine what traffic has to be like during their commute to and from work because of the meta human battles.

I've been saying this for years.
We need a title or even a weekly from the perspective of your average Joe.

Marvels is probably the closest.

[dragonmp93]

Bendis wrote " The Oral History of Earths Mightiest Heroes" during the Heroic Age, and you could tell the Avengers weren't in control of the situation in those early years the Avengers were formed, especially when Enchantress and Executioner showed up. Hank Pym said it in the interview, that there was no jail you could keep powerhouses like these in. There was no plan about that, but Hank was going to change that. (I wonder what Hank pym's plan was?). I don't think the revolving door prisons were capable of holding these sorts of beings, so the super heroes had to resort to more and more extreme measures. They sort of panicked and now the whole Earth is paying for it.

So is their fault that not every hero is like the punisher ?.

I've been saying this for years.
We need a title or even a weekly from the perspective of your average Joe.

Marvels is probably the closest.

By that would be boring, isnt ?.

[Alvarez]

By that would be boring, isnt ?.

I read non-cape comics too, so one that takes place in a world of capes would be interesting.
See how normal folk live in the 616.

[pageturner]

Bendis wrote " The Oral History of Earths Mightiest Heroes" during the Heroic Age, and you could tell the Avengers weren't in control of the situation in those early years the Avengers were formed, especially when Enchantress and Executioner showed up. Hank Pym said it in the interview, that there was no jail you could keep powerhouses like these in. There was no plan about that, but Hank was going to change that. (I wonder what Hank pym's plan was?). I don't think the revolving door prisons were capable of holding these sorts of beings, so the super heroes had to resort to more and more extreme measures. They sort of panicked and now the whole Earth is paying for it.

And also, here's something Iron Man said at the start of the Heroic Age, at the cusp of the Kang breaking the time stream, and reality was cascading around the Avengers. They were in a cave and about to come out and see stuff, so Tony warned them :

"Hey listen, all of you...I maybe should have said this before.... But we're going to see things that are going to...they are going to RATTLE us. We're going to see a future that we have to assume is the WORST version of the future we have coming to us. Plus, we have no idea how real it is or how damaged it is. We're going to see friends and family...either dead or gone or in a bad way.. I need you guys to be able to hold it together, no matter WHAT we see". In that future sequence, Bucky wanted to shoot Kang and solve the problem. Maybe that was a good thing to do?

Sounds familiar in the ANMN current MU, doesn't it? Luckily, the super heroes had already experienced this sort of thing, otherwise, Dimension Z and Planet X, and, the Incursion realities would have shocked everybody. But it was pretty much presaged in the early Heroic Age already before Space-Time was broken (in Age of Ultron) and the effects.

so because they don't have all the answers we should put Norman in charge. We should let him kill DD because Beast is going to mess with time? Moonknight, Mockingbird and Kitty Pryde should be murdered so Logan does not time travel? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Let's kill the mall to stop one. That is thinking the right way.

[pageturner]

I read non-cape comics too, so one that takes place in a world of capes would be interesting.
See how normal folk live in the 616.

The front line series were kind of that.

[Ant-manic]

So is their fault that not every hero is like the punisher ?.

there's no accountability. the heroes don't even think about the aftermath of their fights. they just assume the villains are being locked up (despite evidence to the contrary). I doubt that they even show up to testify against them. the Dark Avengers were very much a teamful of Punishers. they didn't capture people. they executed them.

[Ant-manic]

osborn is a savy businessman, but he is also a full blown psychopath. You can only hide that so much,

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffberc...ke-great-ceos/
you're still thinking of Norman as the Green Goblin. he made peace with that prior to Dark Reign. he lost it in the Thunderbolts series because Moonstone had the guards tamper with his medication. he lost it in the Dark Avengers series because Loki was tampering with his mind. Norman, when he was in control of himself, convinced the marvel American public that he was born-again Christian. Bullseye even suspected that he had convinced himself of this. his belief in himself had already inspired a cult; behind-the-scenes.

[dragonmp93]

there's no accountability. the heroes don't even think about the aftermath of their fights. they just assume the villains are being locked up (despite evidence to the contrary). I doubt that they even show up to testify against them. the Dark Avengers were very much a teamful of Punishers. they didn't capture people. they executed them.

Well, most of the time at least, the punisher at least care about not killing innocents.

[Mikekerr3]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffberc...ke-great-ceos/
you're still thinking of Norman as the Green Goblin. he made peace with that prior to Dark Reign. he lost it in the Thunderbolts series because Moonstone had the guards tamper with his medication. he lost it in the Dark Avengers series because Loki was tampering with his mind. Norman, when he was in control of himself, convinced the marvel American public that he was born-again Christian. Bullseye even suspected that he had convinced himself of this. his belief in himself had already inspired a cult; behind-the-scenes.

He4 always ends up losing it, It is just a matter of w how long it is between episodes. . His Self-belief was just a different form of his delusions. It is hard to reconcile that supposed belief with him covering up murders and kidnappings.

[dragonmp93]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffberc...ke-great-ceos/
you're still thinking of Norman as the Green Goblin. he made peace with that prior to Dark Reign. he lost it in the Thunderbolts series because Moonstone had the guards tamper with his medication. he lost it in the Dark Avengers series because Loki was tampering with his mind. Norman, when he was in control of himself, convinced the marvel American public that he was born-again Christian. Bullseye even suspected that he had convinced himself of this. his belief in himself had already inspired a cult; behind-the-scenes.

How long i know Osborn is the one that tried to kill the superior spider-man.

[Juggernaut Punch]

There's definitely truth to what Osborn said. Superhumans being left to their own devices and doing whatever they want causes enormous problems. It's just that most attempts to quell the problem have been too extreme.