Why is the "standard" for Robin so high?

[Nite-Wing]

So a big thing lately seems to be the notion that if you aren't a highly trained, super ninja, assassin, elite operator, master detective you have no businesses having the name Robin or even being a vigilante.
This is often thrown at the Robin cells functioning in We Are Robin
Harper also gets this blow back in Batman and Robin Eternal
Even Carrie Kelly is starting to face some of this blowback in her own continuity
Ironically Robin is largely viewed as a joke sidekick by the world at large compared to Batman. There's never been a great hype and fear of Robin compared to Batman.
Robin shows up to stop criminals by himself they are much more likely to laugh than run.
There is a point for this though, its used to exploit criminals and take advantage of their perceptions.
In reality there is no threat of a child or teen beating a group of adults by himself. In comics this can happen

The need for Robin to be as highly skilled as Batman was never there and is frankly impossible. You have two different characters who are driven by different motivations.
So for this to be manipulated into a narrative to keep other characters out of the role, make them seem lacking, or even become supporting characters in there own right seems ridiculous.
In the 1943 Batman serial Robin was presented as a gov't agent along with Batman his only skill to swing a wrench/pipe thing. No expert training there
In the Batman tv show Robin was basically there as an exposition meme
In the Superfriends tv show he was even less only given a speaking role opposite Batman and barely doing anything while Batman drove whatever vehicle the episode had

These are all the media appearances that mattered for Robin when the comics began to take his role seriously and genuinely decide the child character needed to "work" in Batman's world.

In a way how these supporting characters work is given little thought
Dick is an acrobat
Jason is a street tough
Tim is a detective
Steph is the daughter of Cluemaster
Damian is the batman version of 3 ninjas

Little is really shown of how or why they need these skills to be effective vigilantes they just have them and are introduced.
The standards seem to increase a lot when someone else dons that costume or any costume
A lot is made of vigilantes putting themselves in danger and I guess this is mitigated entirely with training although apparently whenever a vigilante is killed off in spite of all this its a controversy.

Why are the standards so high now?
Is it because Batman has become darker?
Is it because there's some guilt about endangering children in a medium that will inevitably dispose of them in some event?

[t hedge coke]

Where are we seeing it with Carrie?

Robin, though, has traditionally been really really really good at what he does, in terms of the main continuity. He'd he to be, to be a young kid and throw himself, often in shortpants and shortsleeves with no real weapons into hoards of mobsters and psychopathic murderers, occasionally with super powers. The average kid can't just "be Robin," any more than, really, the average adult could be Batman "if they trained hard enough." These are exceptional people. But, any little kid who can run with the top flight adults is special.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

Actually more work has been put in than just being an acrobat, street tough, detective etc. The problem is the explosion has started to dilute a brand that needs to be strengthened. It is just a smaller reaction to there being other Batmen. It is good when it is built up over time like Dick Grayson to Batman since he had 40+ years as the only Robin, plus decades leading the Titans, Outsiders, and JL so he earned the role and did not look to keep if forever when he did it while Jim Gordon just put on the suit after doing months of training (Not that the story is bad but the reaction to him not being fit for the role). Dick during his time learned from Batman in many different skills as well as Superman and other heroes, while leading and working with various other heroes. He just did not become Robin by being an acrobat he worked for it the same way Bruce went from a wealthy kid to Batman. Bruce did not just have all the skills to be Batman when he started he was trained over many years by other people to become as skilled as he is. It is always frustrating when people sum up all the Robins by just one attribute like acrobatics or detective skills as if the just had this and immediately started beating up criminals. They had other Talents and a commitment to justice like Bruce and worked hard to prove to him that they are ready. Carrie Kelly was an alternate universe character that was much darker and a lot of heroes were not what they are in the main universe even Batman.

Dick trained for 6 months and already followed a strict physical training regiment while also being a quick leaner. While Jason was street rough he was still competent, trained well and fought hard. He did not die because he was a fool, he was emotionally compromised and betrayed by a woman he believed to be his mother. Tim was given more time to become Robin but was allowed in because he kept pursuing and trained with Bruce and Dick before taking on the Mantle. Stephanie Brown was a throwaway from the start. D.Wayne is a genetically engineered and highly trained child of two powerful families. The We Are Robin kids not only decided to become Robin without any real training they act as if they are equal if not better than all the other especially Duke which is frustrating because as a Black person I would like more character to do well but making him another Robin and one who is getting pushed real hard does not translate well to a successful following. Passing around the title of Robin like it is the Green Lantern Corps is not the right way to go. There are ZERO adults/kids in Gotham with good hearts not wearing a Bat or R symbol and it needs to be dialed back. let them get new identities and a new name for the group there were enough Robins after Damian. You have to take time with these Robins or at least give a good indication that they have been trained well enough to survive major threats in Gotham but you have them immediately standing toe to toe with highly trained people it is not a good representation. The WAR kids should get STOMPED by a Talon because they have not received no where near the required training. How quickly they become Robin is not the problem but when it is treated like you can just train in a sewer and take on a Immortal Zombie Assassin it is foolish. I would have like if We Are Robin was called Gotham Knights where you have a them getting training and education secretly at Wayne Tower and are properly being guided like Batman Beyond but less tech.

[Aahz]

The need for Robin to be as highly skilled as Batman was never there and is frankly impossible. You have two different characters who are driven by different motivations.
So for this to be manipulated into a narrative to keep other characters out of the role, make them seem lacking, or even become supporting characters in there own right seems ridiculous.
In the 1943 Batman serial Robin was presented as a gov't agent along with Batman his only skill to swing a wrench/pipe thing. No expert training there
In the Batman tv show Robin was basically there as an exposition meme
In the Superfriends tv show he was even less only given a speaking role opposite Batman and barely doing anything while Batman drove whatever vehicle the episode had

These are all the media appearances that mattered for Robin when the comics began to take his role seriously and genuinely decide the child character needed to "work" in Batman's world.

Thats not really true, already in the Golden Age Dick was presented as a very capable crime fighter/detective in his own right (for example in his solo stories in Star Spangled Comics) and as beeing far more athletic than every other kid of his age.

And if you compare the modern Robin with the "classic" (= pre crisis on infinite earth) one you should keep in mind that "classic" Batman also didn't had the kind of training his modern counterpart has. The "classic" Batman learned everything during his time in collage/university, and never travelled around the globe to train with the most badass trainers available.

[MidTierHero]

We're talking about comics. Real-world standards do not apply. In comics, you can take a teen like Steph Brown and with a few weeks of comic book magic training, she can hang with most street toughs. With a few months of Bat-training, she can hang with professional fighters who have been training their whole lives. And this is perfectly fine.

The notion that a Robin needs to have been trained since he or she was in diapers in order to be "competent" is ridiculous. Robin will be as competent as the story required.

We don't need this kind of realism in comics.

[joybeans]

We're talking about comics. Real-world standards do not apply. In comics, you can take a teen like Steph Brown and with a few weeks of comic book magic training, she can hang with most street toughs. With a few months of Bat-training, she can hang with professional fighters who have been training their whole lives. And this is perfectly fine.

The notion that a Robin needs to have been trained since he or she was in diapers in order to be "competent" is ridiculous. Robin will be as competent as the story required.

We don't need this kind of realism in comics.

Pretty much. This level of suspension of belief is a benefit afforded to a medium whose imagination is limited only by paper and pencil, and not grounded in a "realistic" world like a live action film would be. In fact, I'd say it's necessary for a universe shared by 50+ books starring protagonists of varying "power levels" and conflicts of varying scale, and for stories that are forced to limit their progression to 20 pages a month.

[Nite-Wing]

You say can say no one just starts out as Robin but the comics don't support this at all
The standards should not be held to Dick, Jason, or Tim after years of experience and stints on different teams that's ridiculous. No one would live up to those standards but if we go by how almost all of them start as Robin then yes everyone would be qualified.
When Dick began as Robin we see that he was no where close to the elite operator, same with Jason, and the same thing with Tim
Stephanie initially died because she was overly impulsive.
Dick at his youngest was 12 years old as Robin. His parents were killed and he wanted to be Batman's helper. fast forward 2 weeks and he's Robin.

Take it even further Batman has actually trained adults to fill in for him in his absence in as little as a month. The idea that any of the Robin had years of extensive training on par with Batman is factually incorrect.
They are all for the most part starting as rookies who are taught how to operate but they need those years on the job to become "good"
That is the standard imo and that is the most realistic standard to expect for new vigilantes in Gotham.

Every time I see someone criticize Harper or Duke but for the most part have nothing to say to Batwoman,Batwing(Luke Fox), or Huntress its just as problematic and ridiculous.
None of these characters have the experience of Batman and ultimately he is the benchmark for who can do anything in Gotham.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

You say can say no one just starts out as Robin but the comics don't support this at all
The standards should not be held to Dick, Jason, or Tim after years of experience and stints on different teams that's ridiculous. No one would live up to those standards but if we go by how almost all of them start as Robin then yes everyone would be qualified.
When Dick began as Robin we see that he was no where close to the elite operator, same with Jason, and the same thing with Tim
Stephanie initially died because she was overly impulsive.
Dick at his youngest was 12 years old as Robin. His parents were killed and he wanted to be Batman's helper. fast forward 2 weeks and he's Robin.

Pre-Crisis he was 8 and 10, At no point has Dick's origin not required him of many months of training and getting approval by Batman before being allowed to help.

Take it even further Batman has actually trained adults to fill in for him in his absence in as little as a month. The idea that any of the Robin had years of extensive training on par with Batman is factually incorrect.

If by the Adults you mean AzBat then he was a massive failure and Bruce reclaimed the mantle and kicked him out. They did not have those years when they started but had prior skill and took month of training to get built up and going out after getting approval from Batman and would learn under him for years before working solo and leading other teams before taking on their own identity.

Every time I see someone criticize Harper or Duke but for the most part have nothing to say to Batwoman,Batwing(Luke Fox), or Huntress its just as problematic and ridiculous.
None of these characters have the experience of Batman and ultimately he is the benchmark for who can do anything in Gotham.

Batwoman was a Marine, the strongest argument you have is Luke Fox but he had expensive tech and it was still during the Batman Inc. days, and Huntress became a hero herself. Batman is the benchmark, but it is not a case of all of them just jumping out there. Each who were trained under Batman did not go out until they proved themselves and the others went out after they had trained themselves in Batgirl, Huntress, Cass, Damian etc. The problem with Harper and WAR is they are being introduced in the same Damian was and he was HATED but had legitimacy in being Bruce's son by one of the most powerful enemies so his skills while wild could be believed to an extant. Damian did not gain acceptance until his run with Dick as Batman and Bruce after that.

[t hedge coke]

Every time I see someone criticize Harper or Duke but for the most part have nothing to say to Batwoman,Batwing(Luke Fox), or Huntress its just as problematic and ridiculous.
None of these characters have the experience of Batman and ultimately he is the benchmark for who can do anything in Gotham.

I'm honestly not sure what you mean here. That people think that Huntress is closer to Batman-level than Harper or Duke? Or that Batwoman has more training?

[DurararaFTW]

1. Huntress wasn't a child, unlike Harper and Duke.
2. Batman didn't know who Huntress was and where she came from right away, unlike Harper and Duke.
3. Batman and Huntress had an incredibly rocky relationship for years, he didn't approve of her at all until much later after she'd trained with the Question and Black Canary.

Huntress is exactly how new vigilante ought to appear in Gotham if not under the guidence of Batman himself.

[JayPursuits]

The overall issue is because whereas becoming Robin was once something a person with a certain level of dedication, skill, etc. required and had to get training from Batman, one of the world's premier fighters and intelligent individuals, it's something that ANYONE can do now. Now people can call themselves Robin and actually do something against dangerous threats like assassins and the story is on their side. What made Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne unique is now something kids can do. This actually sullies the point of Robin. Not ANYONE can act as the light to Batman's darkness. Not ANYONE can go out and display the skill like a Robin of a young age. But now, what makes Robin so cool in the first place is treated as If anyone is.

I don't believe it being fiction warrants handwaving when in these comic books, some form of "realism" is there (At least for the "Bat Brand"). Call it "Comicism". Yes, it can be over the top but the Batman brand and what comes out of it is known for being grounded for a comic book world and it's nice. And using other characters as comparisons doesn't always work. At least Batwoman has experience that would help her as a vigilante. Same for Huntress. Harper Row/Duke Thomas suffer from this issue where they have butt worth of something that can take them far as a vigilante in anyway possible and no guiding hand but are written as If they have a chance. And a lot of people don't like those two characters cause their role is just taking up an already existing role: Being Batman's partner.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

For me Duke, the WAR kids and Harper lack something very important. Bruce's approval. Simple as that.

[Aahz]

Pre-Crisis he was 8 and 10, At no point has Dick's origin not required him of many months of training and getting approval by Batman before being allowed to help.

Not really, Dick starting as robin at the age of 8 was a retcon Wolfman made during the New Teen Titans, and the age of 10 only was mentioned in one issue of secret origins. There is afaik know no single comic story (of flash back) that explicitly shows Dick fighting crime at age below 12, or Dick being in primary school during his time as Robin.

In the original comics Dicks starting age was never really given, but it in the comics of mid to late 40s he was already in high school. And in the Earth two Comics of that were published i the 1980s it was reconned that Dick was born in 1928, making the golden age Dick was also 12 when his parents died.

[Rac7d*]

I tend to exclude steph,

Anyway the problem with WAR is making it look like any kid can just jump into doing this
At least step is being trained, and is under the wing of catwoman/batgirl. Harper tech rivals tim(its hard to define intelligence in comics)

Plus their is the whole thing of Damian dying not too long ago, if this well trained experienced pro bites the dust how would those red shirts survive. It basically removes the super

Harper solo king Mr freeze still irks me

[Aahz]

Every time I see someone criticize Harper or Duke but for the most part have nothing to say to Batwoman,Batwing(Luke Fox), or Huntress its just as problematic and ridiculous.
None of these characters have the experience of Batman and ultimately he is the benchmark for who can do anything in Gotham.

Batwoman was a soldier and got further training organised yb her father to become a vigilanty, Luke Fox is a world class MMA fighter with graduated from the MIT a year early with two degrees and Helena Bertinelli was after the death of her parents rised and trained by by the top assassins of the mafia.

Harper doesn't have any training but is portrait as if she could keep up with the current version of Tim, Jason and Dick.