Which Avengers show is better: EMH or Assemble?

[phantom1592]

Yeah, Marvel has the animation rights to the X-Men and FF, but there's an unofficial embargo in place that prevents them or characters associated with them from being used in the cartoons.

It's also gotten a lot more stringent then it was before, since we haven't had a guest-appearance by Wolverine, Doom, or The Thing in the cartoons in quite some time.

Meh, Wolverine showed up on Ultimate Spider-man last season. I think 'quite some time' is an exageration. I think they don't show that often, because they have so many blasted other characters to cross over with. Once Agents of SMASH got in on the mix we had three way crossovers all over the place.


I really don't see a real debate between the shows. EMH was great the first season and sucked the second. AA was kind of meh the first season and has progressively gotten better. I'll take current seasons of AA over half a season of Skrull Cap and only one episode of Galactus any day.

but if they don't drop the episodic approach and dumbing down everyone except the Black Widow I doubt it will ever be even close to EMH.

We have a different definition of 'episodic approach'. Last year the whole season was about Thanos, this one is focusing on Ultron... For that matter the first season was about the Cabal (a rather cool idea I enjoyed... especially Red Skull in stark tech...) Each episode built on the others and eventually ended with a big showdown.

That's the opposite of Episodic in my book.

[Batman Begins 2005]

Easily Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

[Matternativ]

We have a different definition of 'episodic approach'. Last year the whole season was about Thanos, this one is focusing on Ultron... For that matter the first season was about the Cabal (a rather cool idea I enjoyed... especially Red Skull in stark tech...) Each episode built on the others and eventually ended with a big showdown.

That's the opposite of Episodic in my book.

One overarching main plot doesn't really excuse the whole "Villain of the day" thing nor the fact that any character growth gets resetted after almost every episode.
That is my definition of an episodic approach, if that isn't yours so be it.

[phantom1592]

One overarching main plot doesn't really excuse the whole "Villain of the day" thing nor the fact that any character growth gets resetted after almost every episode.
That is my definition of an episodic approach, if that isn't yours so be it.

To each their own. Compared to the cartoons of the 80's and 90's?? There is a massive amount of change and growth going on. Those shows were the real 'reset after every episode'.Even Batman TAS consisted of 'Villain escapes, Find Villain, Back in jail' all in 22 minutes.

You could watch almost any episode of any season in any order back then and it didn't really matter. Here? If you start skipping (as I've had to do a few times when I stopped having DVR) It gets pretty confusing. Gauntlets, Avengers splitting in two, Arsenal ... They do a decent job of keeping things loose enough that you don't get too lost, but the continuity is still there. A lot of 'we may have won a battle... but the war is still going' type of endings. Guardians of the Galaxy I got lost on. Saw the first 4 episodes, then moved where we didn't get that channel and saw my next one around episode 18... NO idea what was going on... Ultimate Spider-man is just as bad with the CONSTANT adding new teammates and multi-part stories...

As for Villain of the week? They all do that. EMH did too. Frankly I'm glad of it. I've always been a fan of that. I've gotten very tired of shows that I have to watch from the very beginning and never miss an episode to have any idea what I'm watching. Always trying to track down the first 3-7 seaons to figure out what people are talking about... That's a horrible way to draw in new fans. As for dumbing down? I don't see it... but I'm glad that there is at least SOME superhero shows that I can enjoy with the nephews. I don't need them TOO adult. Direct to DVD shows are better for that format anyway.

[Carbon Based Stickler]

Damn. I surmised Marvel had an embargo of some sort, but never confirmed. SMH

Wait, you consider the word of these people confirmation? LOL Would you be interested in buying a bridge?

[Matternativ]

To each their own. Compared to the cartoons of the 80's and 90's?? There is a massive amount of change and growth going on. Those shows were the real 'reset after every episode'.Even Batman TAS consisted of 'Villain escapes, Find Villain, Back in jail' all in 22 minutes.

You could watch almost any episode of any season in any order back then and it didn't really matter. Here? If you start skipping (as I've had to do a few times when I stopped having DVR) It gets pretty confusing. Gauntlets, Avengers splitting in two, Arsenal ... They do a decent job of keeping things loose enough that you don't get too lost, but the continuity is still there. A lot of 'we may have won a battle... but the war is still going' type of endings. Guardians of the Galaxy I got lost on. Saw the first 4 episodes, then moved where we didn't get that channel and saw my next one around episode 18... NO idea what was going on... Ultimate Spider-man is just as bad with the CONSTANT adding new teammates and multi-part stories...

As for Villain of the week? They all do that. EMH did too. Frankly I'm glad of it. I've always been a fan of that. I've gotten very tired of shows that I have to watch from the very beginning and never miss an episode to have any idea what I'm watching. Always trying to track down the first 3-7 seaons to figure out what people are talking about... That's a horrible way to draw in new fans. As for dumbing down? I don't see it... but I'm glad that there is at least SOME superhero shows that I can enjoy with the nephews. I don't need them TOO adult. Direct to DVD shows are better for that format anyway.

Well I am not saying Avengers Assemble is outright bad because of it and I know that this approach is a beloved standard when it comes to most TV Shows that aren't explicitly for adults only really, I am just saying that is one reason it can't live up to it's predecessor.
And honestly: I haven't watched Batman TAS. EMH had (jut like the TV Show Gargoyles) Villains who struck around for 2-3 Episodes more frequently, which gave them time to write more exciting storylines, personally I loved how they handled Secret Invasion were Cap and Viper had to team up for example which would have never been possible under other circumstances but right there it all made sense.
I can't really say anything about Guardians or any Spiderman show for that matter.

Fair enough, I don't have Kids nor Nephews and I am watching those Shows for myself and by myself. I also watch them in one order seeing as they aren't aired anywhere were I could watch it week to week.
I can understand that it's nicer to have simpler and shorter stories when you only tune in every once in a while but like I said before:
It is what holds this Show back qualitywise.
Gotta admit that I don't really agree with most that the voice acting is inferior though.
Laura Bailey alone has always been a vocal delight in my opinion. Learned to love her thanks to the Saints Row Games.

[Doctor Know]

Wait, you consider the word of these people confirmation? LOL Would you be interested in buying a bridge?

No, but I have flavors of Kool-Aid I think you'd like to try.

As I and others have said, we have no confirmation on any embargo. Unlike with DC properties, where we know an embargo exists. With Marvel IPs, we only have our summations. Like I said in my original post.

[Frontier]

Speaking of Kamala Khan:

They managed to make her even more obnoxious than in the Comics. Those constant Selfies and her insufferable Battlecry annoy the ever living hell out of me.
I do hope she doesn't become a regular appearance.

Well, that stuff didn't bother me (though I just can't for the life of me understand the appeal of selfies), but I did think she was presented with a little more attitude then she generally has in the comics.

Anyway @Topic:

Earths Mightiest Heroes wins in terms of storytelling, characterization, pacing and pretty much everything else except the visuals.
Avengers Assemble just looks a LOT more beautiful AND it can be fun at times. Not as fun as EMH was (due it being a more serious Show, the light scenes just had more impact) but fun nonetheless. And it DID get better over time, Season 3 is the best so far and I loved how they included the Thunderbolts but if they don't drop the episodic approach and dumbing down everyone except the Black Widow I doubt it will ever be even close to EMH.

I'd say the visuals were better in EMH because the stylized designs and coloring were a lot more vibrant and colorful then Assemble's designs, and the animation in general flowed and looked better in motion then Assemble does at times.

Meh, Wolverine showed up on Ultimate Spider-man last season. I think 'quite some time' is an exageration. I think they don't show that often, because they have so many blasted other characters to cross over with. Once Agents of SMASH got in on the mix we had three way crossovers all over the place.

I really don't see a real debate between the shows. EMH was great the first season and sucked the second. AA was kind of meh the first season and has progressively gotten better. I'll take current seasons of AA over half a season of Skrull Cap and only one episode of Galactus any day.

I think that last appearance by Wolverine was before the embargo's became tougher.

Agents of SMASH showcased a lot of characters you would expect there to be embargo's over, but that was probably because the production was earlier then the other shows and before the embargo's and movie rights issue became a bigger deal.

As much as Assemble has improved, I still think it's yet to reach the level of quality of EMH, especially the first half of season 2 before Man of Action and Loeb got involved.

We have a different definition of 'episodic approach'. Last year the whole season was about Thanos, this one is focusing on Ultron... For that matter the first season was about the Cabal (a rather cool idea I enjoyed... especially Red Skull in stark tech...) Each episode built on the others and eventually ended with a big showdown.

That's the opposite of Episodic in my book.

I'd hesitate to say this season is actually focused on Ultron when he's barely appeared in it, and when he does he's promptly taken out in the same episode he appears.

And the Cabal was a cool idea that the show handled terribly. I never want to see most of those villains again, and especially not Red Skull in an Iron Man armor.

[PhantomStranger]

Marvel has the right to use any character it wants on its animated shows, but since 2012 it's had an unofficial policy of not using characters whose movie rights are controlled by Fox. Which is why there hasn't been an X-Men cartoon since Wolverine & the X-Men. They don't want to give Fox free publicity.

Which conclusively demonstrates the absolute stupidity of corporate thinking. Leave money on the table that YOU could be making just to spite your rival corporation. I thought their fiduciary obligation was to make every penny possible for Marvel, (even if it also leads to Fox benefiting)? But they'd rather go the Caesar route: "It is not enough for me to succeed, all others must fail!"

[PhantomStranger]

Wait, you consider the word of these people confirmation? LOL Would you be interested in buying a bridge?

Marvel can prove there is no embargo by actually using those characters. I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, has everyone noticed that Marvel has adopted the Disney practice of not issuing new DVD/Blu Ray sets of the animated shows?

[McMax]

EMH is one of the best superhero shows ever, I like AA but EMH is just better.

[Triniking1234]

Earth's Mightiest Heroes is the better of the two but Assemble has its moments. I like their use of villians, especially Justin Hammer who was pretty lackluster in 616. The Hulk has pretty good character development in this series compared to EMH which used the "I just want to be left alone" status quo. Hawkeye gets a Circus of Crime back story.

Speaking of Circus of Crime, Ringmaster mind-controlled the Avengers pretty DAMN EASILY.

The shared universe aspect for Assemble is kinda weird since it doesn't fit into Agents of SMASH and GotG very well.

EMH borrows most of its elements from Lee, Kirby and Bendis and they had KANG.

The show also tried to tie the 2 shows together by using EMH artwork for the Molecule Man flash back and that was a stupid idea.

[Doctor Know]

Earth's Mightiest Heroes is the better of the two but Assemble has its moments. I like their use of villians, especially Justin Hammer who was pretty lackluster in 616. The Hulk has pretty good character development in this series compared to EMH which used the "I just want to be left alone" status quo. Hawkeye gets a Circus of Crime back story.

Speaking of Circus of Crime, Ringmaster mind-controlled the Avengers pretty DAMN EASILY.

The shared universe aspect for Assemble is kinda weird since it doesn't fit into Agents of SMASH and GotG very well.

EMH borrows most of its elements from Lee, Kirby and Bendis and they had KANG.

The show also tried to tie the 2 shows together by using EMH artwork for the Molecule Man flash back and that was a stupid idea.

EMH also had elements from Simonson (for Thor), Brubaker (Captain America), Loeb (for Hulk and Rulk), Thomas + Michelinie + Byrne (for Ant-Man, Yellowjacket and Wasp) and I'm sure their are more.

EMH was like a classic Avengers fan's dream show.

[Matternativ]

I'd say the visuals were better in EMH because the stylized designs and coloring were a lot more vibrant and colorful then Assemble's designs, and the animation in general flowed and looked better in motion then Assemble does at times.

It's true that it looked better in motion at times but I just think the characters and buildings look much better in Assemble.
It comes down to preference I suppose.

The show also tried to tie the 2 shows together by using EMH artwork for the Molecule Man flash back and that was a stupid idea.

That is what I thought at first (because of Hawkeyes custome) but I don't remember that scene from EMH.
They mentioned in the beginning of Assemble that they are coming back together rather than coming together in the first place. My guess is that they just didn't want to add in an origin story again and their past isn't exactly what happened in EMH.

Otherwise one would ask were the Wasp or Black Panther are and since when Widow is an Avenger.

[Johnrevenge]

Although Avengers Assemble had improved in recent episodes, Earth Mightiest Heroes will be the big winner.