Is Goku Too Reckless?

[Agent Z]

The existence of new Superman movies that make tons of money and his symbol on marketable items everywhere prove that Superman works just fine in this day and age.



Yes, when I think of Goku, all the incredibly selfish and assholish things he's done come to mi... wait, no. The opposite of that. Not that I've seen all Dragon Ball everything ever, but how is Goku remotely a selfish ******* who gets his jollies out dominating his enemies?



Also... where are you getting this from? Even without making this a Superman-spanking-Lois thread, Superman has a long tradition of pranks and pettiness. He's also known fear often enough, and sadness, and been eager to be loved and appreciated. He's felt lonely. He's felt pride. He's exhibited a full range of "natural indulgences" and desires.

Goku being an irresponsible dad is kind of well known, with him preferring to train than take care of his kid. He also has an annoying habit of allowing his enemies to get stronger just to make the fights interesting at the risk of the Earth.

[Kuwagaton]

Goku being an irresponsible dad is kind of well known, with him preferring to train than take care of his kid. He also has an annoying habit of allowing his enemies to get stronger just to make the fights interesting at the risk of the Earth.

In DB Super, he struggles to hold a basic job because of his attention span and previous experience. He has a 4th grade education at best, but more importantly has no real need or incentive to be a normal dad. DB makes no point about passing as a normal human, so that burden is out. One of his best friends is at least a billionaire, he has exceeded human capability in every parameter, and he has access to magic that will allow him anything he desires. Chi Chi married him knowing at least this much about his character, and Gohan grew up to be a college grad.

As far as allowing his enemies to achieve full power, it's not a bad wager when you consider that if there's no way of stopping what they have to offer, they're probably all sunk anyway. Not to contribute too significantly to an inevitable Goku tangent, haha.

[Kal-El Summers]

I'm still unconvinced Goku's a bigger ******* than a guy who has, at times, used his immense and godlike powers for the sole purpose of humiliating a woman for a) doing her job or b) having a crush on him. Regularly. Not nearly all Superman superdickery is taken out of context.

I'd say willingly allowing Majin Buu to live instead of finishing him when he could of early on leading to everyone getting killed when Kid Buu blew up Earth is pretty *******-ish compared to most of the Superdickery stuff.

[Kuwagaton]

Boo wasn't genocidal though; Kid Boo was. And anyway, he couldn't actually stop Boo with just fighting him at SS3 beacuse of the time limit, so he chose to stall. In the Cell and Boo sagas, Goku's idea was to forge a new hero for the Earth since he wouldn't be around forever and his presence only aggravated revenge motifs. In the end everyone who was killed was also brought back, including Kid Boo, who was reincarnated into a better person by Goku's wish.

Superdickery is more personal and weird, since his targets were always two regular humans. But again, the levity was sorely appreciated. No one really thinks of Superman as crazy and petty because those stories were in jest.

[Agent Z]

I saw literally one episode of OP Man like 30 years ago. I don't really remember how it was. DB and its peers I've known forever and I've been following One Piece for about 13 years now. I probably say this a lot, but while I don't think Superman is in any real danger as a brand, I do think levity will enhance his immersion into current pop culture. This is the reason many friends have told me time and again that Superman is boring. Not the costume, not the haircut, not the powers. The tone is dour.


In DB Super, he struggles to hold a basic job because of his attention span and previous experience. He has a 4th grade education at best, but more importantly has no real need or incentive to be a normal dad. DB makes no point about passing as a normal human, so that burden is out. One of his best friends is at least a billionaire, he has exceeded human capability in every parameter, and he has access to magic that will allow him anything he desires. Chi Chi married him knowing at least this much about his character, and Gohan grew up to be a college grad.

As far as allowing his enemies to achieve full power, it's not a bad wager when you consider that if there's no way of stopping what they have to offer, they're probably all sunk anyway. Not to contribute too significantly to an inevitable Goku tangent, haha.

What? I don't get what you're saying here. So it's okay if Goku allows his enemies to become more powerful if he thinks he can stop them. I mean yeah the audience knows he's gonna win, but Goku can't know that for sure. Future Trunks in the manga killed Mecha Freiza before the latter could power up because he couldn't take the risk.

As for everything else, the fact that the only thing Goku contributed to Gohan's child hood was fighting skills kind of shows how sucky the kid's life would have turned out if not for other people. That Goku has no incentive to be a good dad is kind of moot.

Boo wasn't genocidal though; Kid Boo was. And anyway, he couldn't actually stop Boo with just fighting him at SS3 beacuse of the time limit, so he chose to stall. In the Cell and Boo sagas, Goku's idea was to forge a new hero for the Earth since he wouldn't be around forever and his presence only aggravated revenge motifs. In the end everyone who was killed was also brought back, including Kid Boo, who was reincarnated into a better person by Goku's wish.

Superdickery is more personal and weird, since his targets were always two regular humans. But again, the levity was sorely appreciated. No one really thinks of Superman as crazy and petty because those stories were in jest.

Vegeta and Nappa didn't come to Earth specifically for Goku. They wanted the Dragon Balls. Cell only wanted to challenge the world's strongest fighters. I'll give you Freiza and Cell but they were really the only ones who had revenge as their primary goal. And are we really saying Gohan wouldn't have been targeted by revenge motifs himself?

Really things in the DBZ universe often ended up solved because of dumb luck or because someone who wasn't Goku acted like they had half a brain.

[Kuwagaton]

What? I don't get what you're saying here. So it's okay if Goku allows his enemies to become more powerful if he thinks he can stop them. I mean yeah the audience knows he's gonna win, but Goku can't know that for sure. Future Trunks in the manga killed Mecha Freiza before the latter could power up because he couldn't take the risk.

Goku chose to let Freeza reach full power while the planet was going to explode, which would take them both out anyway. As far as he knew, this would be the last big battle he would be able to have, especially with Vegeta dead. He did defeat Freeza and chose to spare his life until he had no choice but to do his best at killing him. He couldn't have known that the death didn't stick, but when Trunks did show up and talk to Goku, he did not describe the revival of Freeza as a great calamity in his timeline. So presumably Goku took care of that well enough.

This was really the only time Goku allowed a villain to get stronger.

As for everything else, the fact that the only thing Goku contributed to Gohan's child hood was fighting skills kind of shows how sucky the kid's life would have turned out if not for other people. That Goku has no incentive to be a good dad is kind of moot.

Or it shows that it takes a village to raise a child? Japan is culturally less individualistic so maybe this was an unconscious theme. Either way, had he used his marginal functional intelligence to raise Gohan better instead of getting better at what he does (in the early years we don't even see a sign that he's left home), Raditz may have killed him before his time. Or he wouldn't have been prepared for the androids (he lived at home for most of the training, by the way). Or, by his reasoning, someone else may have challenged him and put the world at stake, which is why he chose to remain dead.

Vegeta and Nappa didn't come to Earth specifically for Goku. They wanted the Dragon Balls. Cell only wanted to challenge the world's strongest fighters. I'll give you Freiza and Cell but they were really the only ones who had revenge as their primary goal. And are we really saying Gohan wouldn't have been targeted by revenge motifs himself?

Gohan didn't have a past, really. Raditz traces back to Goku, the others came because of Raditz.

Really things in the DBZ universe often ended up solved because of dumb luck or because someone who wasn't Goku acted like they had half a brain.

Ultimately, might made right in their world. Nothing could be saved without Goku being strong enough.

And I'm sorry again for going off-topic. The point here is that heroes like Goku don't come at the expense of capability. Or charm, which is why people do like them and make the case that Superman can be more like them. It's not necessarily agreeable but conceivable.

[Kal-El Summers]

Boo wasn't genocidal though; Kid Boo was. And anyway, he couldn't actually stop Boo with just fighting him at SS3 beacuse of the time limit, so he chose to stall. In the Cell and Boo sagas, Goku's idea was to forge a new hero for the Earth since he wouldn't be around forever and his presence only aggravated revenge motifs. In the end everyone who was killed was also brought back, including Kid Boo, who was reincarnated into a better person by Goku's wish.

Superdickery is more personal and weird, since his targets were always two regular humans. But again, the levity was sorely appreciated. No one really thinks of Superman as crazy and petty because those stories were in jest.

Genocidal or not, Buu killed most of Earth's population before Mr. Satan befriended him and his evil side was expelled. Just because the Dragon Balls gave them an out doesn't excuse gambling like Goku did when all it'd take was Dende getting killed and they'd be screwed.

[Aura Blaize]

Dude commits to no noble cause or take responsibility for the actions he causes or starts with villians invading his planet(for the long term), he just wants to fight and train and basis everything evil off enemies threatening his family and friends. He failed to kill villians straight out and spared them just so they can return for a rematch a fight knowing full well they commit universal evil on not just earth but various planets. He turned his son into a child solider to beat up a gloabal threat which he fought first and allowed his son to tag in just to see him beat the guy not caring one instances of his sons feelings on the matter.

Let's see...starting with DBZ he's killed by Piccolo, the guy who turned his son into a child soldier, then was revived, fought and spared Vegeta (The only main villian he spared in DBZ BTW), fought and killed Freiza (To his knowledge), then trained with everyone else against a threat that would have doomed the planet otherwise. I'll give you the thing with Gohan, but then he pleaded with Gohan to kill Cell. When he didn't, Goku sacrificed himself to save everyone. Then he stayed dead because he realized he attracted too much danger to the earth, so there's that responsibility. Then he fought Buu, with whom he killed in the end.

Then you get to Super. He didn't kill Beerus because...well....Beerus is insanely above him. And with Freiza's return, he actually does kill him. I will admit they took his love of training to crazy heights...but to be honest, when there's a guy out there that you KNOW is massively stronger than you and you CAN'T beat him at ALL, it would be kind of smart to actually want to be ready for such a being so you can defend your loved ones and stuff.

Not saying that Goku is father of the year or anything like that, but let's be fair. He's far from some ******* who lets everyone go.

[The Dork Knight]

Saitama and Goku are assholes and selfish pricks who get jollies out of fighting and being dominate over thier opponents(or in Saitama's case bored), Superman is the complete opposite of that and where he fails in that context is because Clark has no selfish human basis that is relatable to people, he has no natural indulgences to desire anything for himself with his powers and potential.

This is one of the stupidest and most biased things I have ever read and I say this is a die hard Superman fan with no great love for Goku . I haven't seen OPM but I doubt that can be accurate either

Clark is petty and selfish all the time , obviously far less than regular humans , but it's not like he's an emotionless do-gooder 24x7. The entire silver age was basically an excuse for Clark to be a dick for reasons that can be best summed as "cuz I can " . That's one of the most definitive versions of the character out there . Even post crisis he does things like melt the chairs of guys under them, for flirting with his wife and shatter a glass/spill water over Bruce because he was flirting with Lois and making fun of Clarks rural upbringing

I wouldn't say Goku's perfect or anything ( especially when it comes to being a father or husband ) but this guy sacrificed himself so the planet could be saved . Stop being ridiculous

[The Dork Knight]

Yeah, Goku being kinda of an ******* who cares only about "challenge" is well established.

As for the topic, unless I'm mistaken, but Superman is more popular and makes more money than OPM and Goku so I'm not sure how they would validate Superman's existance.

Yeah he was looking for a challenge the time he sacrificed himself to stop Cell destroying the planet .

[The Dork Knight]

Goku being an irresponsible dad is kind of well known, with him preferring to train than take care of his kid. He also has an annoying habit of allowing his enemies to get stronger just to make the fights interesting at the risk of the Earth.

He also, ultimately tries to finish them off , be it Cell, or Frieza or Buu . He even gave it his best shot vs Beerus

As opposed to , if we are going there , Superman , allowing his rogues to live , or in general DC villains , sometimes , merely because they fall outside his "jurisdiction" ( Black Adam, Darskeid , Sinestro ) who then proceed to commit genocide .

Which surprise , surprise , in the DCU usually does not have a cheat code with the dragon balls to even bring back the dead. They be dead, son. Unlike DBZ . Where as of now , eartg's population remains intact , heck Namek's population remains intact

[The Dork Knight]

Dude commits to no noble cause or take responsibility for the actions he causes or starts with villians invading his planet(for the long term),

What are you babbling about ?

How did he start Frieza's actions ? Cell's even I can understand from a wild wild stretch to go back to Dr Gero but Buu? Yeah Goku was totally responsible for Buu

Goku tried to kill Frieza , Cell and Buu. That he didn't succeed first time was hardly his fault . That he spared a mass murderer who then later reformed , is better than Supes sparing say, just as one example , Manchester Black, how?

Or , to carry on with Black, Black then killed himself because he couldn't break down Supes later . Where is Superman taking responsibility for his death ?

And what about Vera getting the Worlogog and proceeding to have Supes murder half of London's population , and then try to murder her too, before it was barely reversed by surprise surprise a wishing device ( Worlogog ) not unlike the heh...dragon balls

All of that stemmed from Supes not killing Black on Jupiter . Where's Superman taking responsibility there ?

he just wants to fight and train and basis everything evil off enemies threatening his family and friends. He failed to kill villians straight out and spared them just so they can return for a rematch a fight knowing full well they commit universal evil on not just earth but various planets.

This is hilarious . " he didn't kill the bad guys ( despite totally giving it his best shot ) is being used as an argument in comparison to Superman.oooh the irony...

He turned his son into a child solider to beat up a gloabal threat which he fought first and allowed his son to tag in just to see him beat the guy not caring one instances of his sons feelings on the matter.

He didn't turn Gohan to anything, circumstances did. And Gohan was plenty willing to tag along to Namek . Or, remember the time Superman totally allowed his teenage cousin to go off to face a universal anomaly just a short while after her arrival / having barely adjusted to life on Earth/that would result in her getting lost in space/ the future for a year?

Yeah I bet you didn't .

Hes never had to desire wanting a good fight or getting more powerful just for shits and giggles, because thats what the former desires, they are blood knights and completely power hungry fighting nuts.

He needs to train harder and get more powerful to face ever bigger threats , especially when he doesn't have a league or society to back him up. Best he has is another Saiyan and his son, others are nowhere close to his power levels

That aside how much of a blood knight would you call Superman for wasting time training with Wonder Woman and the Flash( just off the top of my head ) rather than dealing with threats around the world, just to keep himself in shape ?