90s comic books or "dark ages".

[TomServofan]

I know alot of comic fans cringe or scream out in terror at the mention "90s comics" but it wasn't all that bad. Sure some of the heroes done by Rob Liefield are a bunch of gary stu wannabe badass Arnold meets Hulk steroid junkie monstrosities, trying to be cool with their huge-ass guns about the size of their body nearly and badly drawn ladies who are skinny with huge knockers and backaches including some grimdark "Xtreme" stuff. Do you think some comics in the 90s took the wrong lessons from Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Heavy Metal Magazine and Akira by Katsuhiro Otomo etc.? as they thought the wrapper was the candy when Frank Miller (80s/90s) with Alan Moore, Akira and Heavy Metal Magazine actually beneath their grit and darkness had substance to them.

Oh I remember the so-called 'Dark Age' of comics since i was born 34 years ago and grew up in the 80s which was the second bronze age while the 90s the "dark" age. It wasn't as DARK as everyone made it out to be, especially in comparison to the past decade and a half. I can come up with plenty of examples...but then I would get off the subject of this thread. At least the Superman of the 90's (whether he had a mullet or energy powers or whatever) STILL ACTED LIKE SUPERMAN, and Batman was jobbing to Luchadores and was far from the GOD THAT CAN BEAT ANYONE. Despite an era of antihero gary stus with guns nearly the size of their bodies and a bunch of Arnold meets Hulk wannabes pretending to be badass with guns that are like cannons the size of their bodies while they are cowards in disguise and darkness for the sake of it plus swimsuit covers done by that Rob Lindeolf who is bad at anatomy, besides Marvel and DC drew women better than skinny chicks with big knockers with bad backs like Rob did but with real curves based off actual models which are guilty pleasure covers (being the DC and Marvel swimsuit covers) you know even in Heavy Metal Magazine.

i mean the "dark ages" of the 90's weren't all bad, some good stuff came out of it, bane is actually a good example there's a reason he's still popular not because he "broke the batman" but because they've developed him over the years he's even been a hero and worked WITH batman a number of times to break up drug rings. he's become something of an anti-hero. venom and the symbiote came from that same time period and he's still crazy popular hell even carnage is still popular for some reason even though he's boring as hell run of the mill psycho. There are some gems of the time like Hellboy, The Maxx, Maus, Sin City, 300, The Mask, Ghost in the Shell, Road to Perdition and some others.

[ultimate jezebel]

The 90s wasn't a total disaster at all...there were some good moments and some good books.

But the majority of the books stuffed in discount boxes are 90s confetti I have no interest in at all.

[t hedge coke]

The 90s wasn't a total disaster at all...there were some good moments and some good books.

But the majority of the books stuffed in discount boxes are 90s confetti I have no interest in at all.

I could say that about any decade, including this one.

There's always a lot of stuff that's not going to interest one person. And, a lot that was hot at the time, but looks silly to us now.

But, the 90s gave us Busiek and Perez on Avengers, Jim Lee's Fantastic Four, Morrison's JLA, Alan Moore and Chris Claremont's WildCATs, The Invisibles, Sandman, The Enigma, TMNT Adventures, Slapstick, Savage Dragon, Marvels, Gunsmith Cats, Baker Street, Mark Waid's Flash, two amazing Doom Patrol runs, Ghost in the Shell, Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, Hokum and Hex, X/1999, Ellis' Stormwatch and Doom 2099, and so many other fantastic comics.

[Paradox]

Just curious, Tom. Are all your threads going to be of the "who else thinks this thing sucks like I do" variety? Particularly about subjects that have had that done to death to them?

[TomServofan]

No, i just made this to remind people that the 90s weren't all that bad as they claim to be.

[Lee Stone]

The 90s were atrocious for mainstream comics...

Death of Superman, Knightfall, the end of JLI and Perez's Wonder Woman...
The increase of T&A shots (Elektra, Psylocke, Catwoman and Wonder Woman suddenly all became more endowed, their clothing shrunk or got tighter and they learned to pose in ways that would look silly in real life - usually in ways that displayed their breasts and their butts facing the same direction)...
Along with Zero Hour's convenient "ending of the universe" with empty white panels to mark their demise and Marvel's Heroes Reborn...
Mainstream comics came to a screeching halt for most fans in the 90s.

However, indie comics boomed.
Mainly because with the demise of newstands, readers were now forced into caveman mode and had to hunt for their comics... and when they found them at secluded comic shops, they discovered other people made comics, too.
Madman, Hellboy... even DC's Vertigo (which somehow avoided the wave of 'extreme' that was washing over their core books), these gave readers something to run to when DC and Marvel's skies started falling.

[Daryl]

I didn't discover "Leave it to Chance" until the first or second FCBD that offered the reprint. However, it's amazing and while I would love to see it come back, perhaps it's best it stays right where it is.

[TomServofan]

And is the grimdark comics no different than the 50s EC horror comics and it's imitators?

[Custodes]

The Darkest.

Although, Marvel and DC are almost as bad now.

[TomServofan]

The Darkest.

Although, Marvel and DC are almost as bad now.

But do you agree not all 90s comics were bad and some are good like the gems i mentioned? and do you think some of the 90s comics took the wrong lessons from Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Heavy Metal Magazine, Akira by Katsuhiro Otomo etc. and forgot that those stories maybe violent including HM magazine which had some sex/violence/drug use but also substanc/creativity in them like in Richard Corben's stories and these things had substance behind their darkness right?

[t hedge coke]

But do you agree not all 90s comics were bad and some are good like the gems i mentioned? and do you think some of the 90s comics took the wrong lessons from Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Heavy Metal Magazine, Akira by Katsuhiro Otomo etc. and forgot that those stories maybe violent including HM magazine which had some sex/violence/drug use but also substanc/creativity in them like in Richard Corben's stories and these things had substance behind their darkness right?

All of those people were working through the 90s. Heavy Metal ran through the 90s. Moore and Miller did some of the best work of their careers.

Like "the Sixties" or "the Twenties," it's very easy to pin the Nineties as a single style or imprint or tendency, but like all actual time periods, it was all manner of things.

[Custodes]

But do you agree not all 90s comics were bad and some are good like the gems i mentioned? and do you think some of the 90s comics took the wrong lessons from Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Heavy Metal Magazine, Akira by Katsuhiro Otomo etc. and forgot that those stories maybe violent including HM magazine which had some sex/violence/drug use but also substanc/creativity in them like in Richard Corben's stories and these things had substance behind their darkness right?

I wasn't too fond of the eighties either.

In the 90s we had to turn the comic book sideways every few pages. Had to deal with the annoying cards inside that made the book open always to the wrong page and horrible art and writings. Scott Lobdel, who I consider the Liefeld of the writers (not a compliment) helped ruin it. Chaos and nonsense.Pose,pose,pose. I'm having trouble remembering any really good books I read then. Sandman comes to mind.

[TomServofan]

All of those people were working through the 90s. Heavy Metal ran through the 90s. Moore and Miller did some of the best work of their careers.

Like "the Sixties" or "the Twenties," it's very easy to pin the Nineties as a single style or imprint or tendency, but like all actual time periods, it was all manner of things.

What about those 50's EC horror comics? they were quite grim, gritty and violent too you know yet with a sense of humor from the hosts like Crypt-Keeper or Vault Keeper or Old Witch.

[TomServofan]

I wasn't too fond of the eighties either.

In the 90s we had to turn the comic book sideways every few pages. Had to deal with the annoying cards inside that made the book open always to the wrong page and horrible art and writings. Scott Lobdel, who I consider the Liefeld of the writers (not a compliment) helped ruin it. Chaos and nonsense.Pose,pose,pose. I'm having trouble remembering any really good books I read then. Sandman comes to mind.

Oh come on, the 80s was a fantastic time for comics as was the 60s/70s as the 60s/early 70s were the silver ages and the mid-late 70s/80s were bronze ages as the 80s still had some creativity from Alan Moore (he made Swamp Thing very interesting), Frank Miller, Dennis O'Neil, Richard Corben, Bernie Wrightsen, Joe Kirby, Neil Gaiman etc. you know.

[Custodes]

Oh come on, the 80s was a fantastic time for comics as was the 60s/70s as the 60s/early 70s were the silver ages and the mid-late 70s/80s were bronze ages as the 80s still had some creativity from Alan Moore (he made Swamp Thing very interesting), Frank Miller, Dennis O'Neil, Richard Corben, Bernie Wrightsen, Joe Kirby, Neil Gaiman etc. you know.

I think the Silver Age was 1956 (first Flash) to 1968 (comic original art pages went to 12 inches by 15 inches and TTA AND TOS ended with Sub-Mariner, Iron Man and Hulk and Cap getting their own books.) Bronze Age was 68 to 76 or so maybe the whole 70s. The 80s are just the 80s Servo.

I always felt Frank Miller was a bit overrated. Dennis O'Neill extremely overrated (famous in the early Bronze Age) Corben excellent....in the 70s, Wrightson excellent...in the 70s. Neil Gaiman...awesome writer...never heard of Joe Kirby. If by chance you mean Jack....awesome every decade.