Philosophical Joker When Did it begin?

[Arkham]

So, I was reading old Joker things (not so old 1999) and you can notice how that Joker was very different, I have read that old joker before but since I finished the new52 batman I wanted to read pre-n52 again and compering both...nowadays they use a philosophical Joker often and you feel his speaking is more educated, I read N52 suicide squad a while ago and they used that philosophical route. Before...well maybe the killing joke was philosophical in one way but I can't remember how all this began in comics, I think the movie "dark knight" was an influence but you're the expert. What can you remember about this?

By the way I'm not saying I prefer Philosophical-Joker but It's curious...

[Laevatein]

It can probably be traced back to The Killing Joke.

[Claude]

About the time that writers decided that a character called "The Joker" shouldn't be in any way funny, and should be as unlike a clown as possible.

At which point, the old "jester who speaks secret wisdoms" thing came about - the idea that his Suuuuuper Craaaaaziness is a knife that lets him cut through Batman's humourless perceptions.


Me, I think he should have an active interest in comedy and being funny.

[t hedge coke]

Even in his earliest appearances, the Joker seems introspective. There are takes where it's all frivolous and he doesn't think, just does wackiness, but he's often had "higher goals." The Killing Joke and DKR have that sort of Joker in different ways, but I think Arkham Asylum may be the actual watershed moment for it coming back.

As to whether the Joker is actually "right" in his philosophizing... that's a much rarer writer. He's the Joker. He's perceptive, but he's also wrong.

[Arkham]

Even in his earliest appearances, the Joker seems introspective. There are takes where it's all frivolous and he doesn't think, just does wackiness, but he's often had "higher goals." The Killing Joke and DKR have that sort of Joker in different ways, but I think Arkham Asylum may be the actual watershed moment for it coming back.

As to whether the Joker is actually "right" in his philosophizing... that's a much rarer writer. He's the Joker. He's perceptive, but he's also wrong.

About those "higher goals" How early are we talking about? Joker in Arkham Asylum is a mix between TDK and the animated series though another Jokers details too but asylum was released in 2009 and TDK in 2008.

[t hedge coke]

About those "higher goals" How early are we talking about? Joker in Arkham Asylum is a mix between TDK and the animated series though another Jokers details too but asylum was released in 2009 and TDK in 2008.

I meant A Serious House on Serious Earth, by Arkham Asylum, not a 2009 version (the video game series?). Sorry for not being clear.

He's very much The Guide™ in that comic.

But, I mean going all the way back to his earliest appearances, what you see, often, is the Joker sitting, bothered, and thinking things through. The more spontaneous, wackadoodle, thoughtless Joker is is a later invention than that.

[Arkham]

But, I mean going all the way back to his earliest appearances, what you see, often, is the Joker sitting, bothered, and thinking things through. The more spontaneous, wackadoodle, thoughtless Joker is is a later invention than that.

It's interesting, was that train of thought about his philosophy? that is if he had something like that at the time *eyes roll* or just a kind of rant?

We can just find "the killing joke" and "arkham asylum (1990)" and that's all then (I could be wrong) and It's strange because of how common this style of Joker is now or Have I missed something?

By the way, I know Joker had great tricks in 90's and 2000's sometimes so Has he always had a tendency to plan? or that appeared after crisis in 1986