Ultimate Marvel General and Reading Order

[timedesk]

Glad to see there is going to be a place for general UU discussion. I mostly read the TPBs but that preview looks pretty good. I might have to get the single issues for this arc at least. The only thing about the relaunch I'm missing is the lack of an X-book. I really like what I've heard about the new FF book, but I really want to see the Apocalypse arc hinted at by Spencer's run to be resolved. At this point I have to hope they at least make a mini that will tie in with the AOA movie that will be coming out in a year or two.

[Wolverine12]

I'm not a huge fan of the UU or anything(only ever read USM 1 omnibus), but there's definitely more potential for the line. It's a shame it often gets overlooked because it's not 'canon'.
And I know this because I was one of those people who wouldn't give it a try because it didn't seem..well, relevant, for lack of a better word. Reading your guys posts on here gets me hyped enough to collect it all in HC.

Please follow through on this, the original UU books were some of the best comics I've ever read. Millar's Ultimate X-Men is to this day still my favorite run of any comic ever. Post up as you read them and let us know what you think. Heck maybe we can even get our sub forum back.

[The4orTy67]

I'm still crying

[Rok]

Glad to see there is going to be a place for general UU discussion. I mostly read the TPBs but that preview looks pretty good. I might have to get the single issues for this arc at least. The only thing about the relaunch I'm missing is the lack of an X-book. I really like what I've heard about the new FF book, but I really want to see the Apocalypse arc hinted at by Spencer's run to be resolved. At this point I have to hope they at least make a mini that will tie in with the AOA movie that will be coming out in a year or two.

Fialkov has said the UFF will have short arcs, ergo reading it as issues would make some sense instead of TPB. And I am afraid that Bendis will continue his "an arc has to be at least 6 issues long" rule. Thus reading it as TPBs more reasonable.

[RockyBanks]

Glad to see there is going to be a place for general UU discussion. I mostly read the TPBs but that preview looks pretty good. I might have to get the single issues for this arc at least. The only thing about the relaunch I'm missing is the lack of an X-book. I really like what I've heard about the new FF book, but I really want to see the Apocalypse arc hinted at by Spencer's run to be resolved. At this point I have to hope they at least make a mini that will tie in with the AOA movie that will be coming out in a year or two.

As good as Wood's run on Ultimate X-Men is, it has the misfortune of highlighting exactly what most Marvel fans hate about the Ultimate Universe: the "Dead Means Dead" rule. To the average Marvel fan, positive word-of-mouth and critical acclaim for any Ultimate X-Men book will never amount to a hill of beans, because it will always have the stench of Ultimatum on it.

[Agemoi]

Yup.

It seemed good to me in that regard.
Jean has been unstable since the Millar days, and Ultimatum pushed her over the edge (remember Ultimate X #2).

IIRC Hickman left the book himself. In big part due to Marvel giving him a lot of Marvel Now! books, and then he chose to drop Ultimates to focus on those.
As for the quality that's all very subjective, I think the increase in quality between Spencer and Wood was bigger than the decrease between Hickman and Humphries (and we even got Fialkov later who did a pretty good job).
There also was the same kind of thing with the artists, the team of artists working with Humphries were a huge step down from Ribic, but Asrar on Ultimate X-Men was a huge improvement over Medina/Barberi.

Though, I agree, it is frustrating to see two books completely change direction mid story.

..Really? I could've sworn he said he left because Marvel wasn't happy with the sales on top of wanting him on their bigger books? Its old news now, but Ill probably look it up to refresh my memory.

And while true that Jean wasn't always "stable" she was never the kind of person Wood wrote: Maniacal, homicidal, hell even genocidal. Those are HUGE steps. She wasn't nearly enough of an important player since ultimate x finished to have her motivation make any sort of sense. The only stuff we had to go on were events referenced off-panel, and that doesn't jive with me. I would've preferred something more concrete in-arc as opposed to making assumptions on years of spaced out material

But again, old news. What happened happened. It still just didn't seem… neat. Seeing good ideas discarded is whats really been hurting the UU's credibility.

[Chet Manley]

..Really? I could've sworn he said he left because Marvel wasn't happy with the sales on top of wanting him on their bigger books? Its old news now, but Ill probably look it up to refresh my memory.

He blamed the sales on the New 52, and I think Marvel shares that opinion to some extent.
Anyway, I do think his departure from the book has more to do with the fact that he's in demand more than anything else.

And while true that Jean wasn't always "stable" she was never the kind of person Wood wrote: Maniacal, homicidal, hell even genocidal. Those are HUGE steps. She wasn't nearly enough of an important player since ultimate x finished to have her motivation make any sort of sense. The only stuff we had to go on were events referenced off-panel, and that doesn't jive with me. I would've preferred something more concrete in-arc as opposed to making assumptions on years of spaced out material

Thing is, I never thought the Phoenix Force existed, and that it was all just a metaphorical way to deal with Jean's instability, and that her "usual" behavior in the book has more to do with the school giving her support and structure than anything else (remember, Xavier found her in a mental institution).
Now compare her Phoenix breakdown in "Hellfire and Brimstone" (murdering Sebastian Shaw, the whole "Kneel now and watch in awe" speech) to her Mistress of Tian characterization, and you'll see they're not that far from each other.

It's subtle, and requires some reading between the lines, but it's precisely the kind of storytelling I love, so, yeah.

But again, old news. What happened happened. It still just didn't seem… neat. Seeing good ideas discarded is whats really been hurting the UU's credibility.

Agreed. I found the sudden change of creative teams very frustrating, and I'm the guy who liked the "after" more than the "before".

[harashkupo]

..Really? I could've sworn he said he left because Marvel wasn't happy with the sales on top of wanting him on their bigger books? Its old news now, but Ill probably look it up to refresh my memory.

And while true that Jean wasn't always "stable" she was never the kind of person Wood wrote: Maniacal, homicidal, hell even genocidal. Those are HUGE steps. She wasn't nearly enough of an important player since ultimate x finished to have her motivation make any sort of sense. The only stuff we had to go on were events referenced off-panel, and that doesn't jive with me. I would've preferred something more concrete in-arc as opposed to making assumptions on years of spaced out material

But again, old news. What happened happened. It still just didn't seem… neat. Seeing good ideas discarded is whats really been hurting the UU's credibility.

The one thing that hurt my experience with Wood's run was certain characterizations like Jean. Her's was the biggest but small stuff like Storm asking Kitty permission to use her powers or Bobby's weird depression phase because of the Husk ordeal. Little beats that brought me out of the story.

I also agree about the discarded ideas. I'm not Fialkov's biggest fan right now but I totally admire him for trying to tie everything together even when it pulls from stories I'd rather forget about. That's an incredibly respectful thing to do considering most writers have been throwing retcons around or just cherry picking what they like. For better or worse he continually tries to keep some sort of continuity going.

[Thesanmich]

Please follow through on this, the original UU books were some of the best comics I've ever read. Millar's Ultimate X-Men is to this day still my favorite run of any comic ever. Post up as you read them and let us know what you think. Heck maybe we can even get our sub forum back.

I'll probably do that. If not on this thread then another one. Would you recommend FF and X-men beyond Vaughn and Millar? Pre-Ultimatum I mean..

[Chet Manley]

I'll probably do that. If not on this thread then another one. Would you recommend FF and X-men beyond Vaughn and Millar? Pre-Ultimatum I mean..

UFF becomes very hit-or-miss as soon as Ellis leaves. The Carey/Ferry stuff is probably the best of the post-Ellis stuff.
Kirkman's first arc was pretty good, but the book took a nosedive right after that.

[timedesk]

I'll probably do that. If not on this thread then another one. Would you recommend FF and X-men beyond Vaughn and Millar? Pre-Ultimatum I mean..

Speaking only for myself, X men post Vaughn is when things really went downhill for the X books. There is a lot of buildup for one major arc, that winds up being rushed and more or less forgotten. Ultimatum really renders most of it moot anyway. Its worth reading if you like the characters, but expect it to leave you a little disappointed. As for UFF, it has it's moments, I would read at least the first few volumes if you can get them. The ultimate Galactus mini and Ultimate Doomsday also make good use of the FF cast if you are interested.

[Plawsky]

It is AWESOME to see so many new/lapsed readers stopping by this thread! For those asking, here are my Ultimate Must Reads:

I started writing details about arcs that I really like and recommend, but I quickly realized that it would be way too long of a read, because it's almost ALL the arcs! Here's a quicker recap (in no particular order)

Ultimates 1 and 2 by Millar/Hitch
Ultimate Galactus Trilogy by Ellis
Ultimate Fantastic Four by Millar/Bendis and Ellis (#1-18)
Ultimate X-Men by Millar (#1-33 and Ultimate War)
Ultimate X-Men by Vaughan (#46-65)
Ultimate Spider-man… all of it.
Ultimate Six

Post-Ultimatum

Ultimate Armor Wars
Ultimate Thor
Ultimate Avengers (especially vol 1 and 2)
Ultimate Spider-man… all of it

Post-Death of Spider-man

Ultimates by Hickman (#1-12)
Ultimates by Fialkov (#25-30)
Ultimate X-Men by Wood (#13-32)
Ultimate Spider-man… all of it
Ultimate Iron Man
Ultimate Wolverine
Hunger

Current

All of them!

..Really? I could've sworn he said he left because Marvel wasn't happy with the sales on top of wanting him on their bigger books? Its old news now, but Ill probably look it up to refresh my memory.

I think that all played into it, but it really came down to his schedule. I don't think he had the time or desire to write Avengers AND Ultimates, especially with his Avengers run often being 3 issues a month (Avengers x2 and New Avengers). Of course, it's a huge bummer, because he was KILLING it on the Ultimates, and I think his departure began a snowball effect that hurt the UU for a year or so, before finally getting back on its feet with Fialkov.

The other changes (namely DWF/UWS and Cataclysm) seem to be mostly editorially driven, because of the low sales. Unfortunately, the one time Marvel finally tried to give the UU a big push again, the New 52 came out unexpectedly, meaning the UU had to get pushed aside while Marvel played catch up. For a couple years, I don't think they were comfortable with the UU being as low-selling as it is/was, so they threw an event in there and followed with an AoU crossover. But now, I think they're cool with the UU being even more niche than it's ever been, with these very unique and more indie-like books of ANU and UFF.

Let's just hope that when Hickman finishes his Avengers run next year that he comes home and takes over the Ultimates. I hate not having a real Ultimates team right now, but I would be absolutely fine with them being on ice for 18 months if it meant Hickman could be the man to bring them back together. But let's be honest, that probably won't happen; I can't really see him going BACK to the assignment that he left to take the Avengers. Then again, what else is he going to write for Marvel after Avengers? I couldn't see him doing X-Men or Spider-man, and he's already conquered the Fantastic Four. So hey - here's hoping!

[TheDarman]

So, I'm just hoping to see the Peter clone come back.

[wyokid]

So, I'm going to go see The Amazing Spider-Man 2 tonight...

Wrong thread man.

[TheDarman]

Wrong thread man.

Fixed it.