How tough is a power ring equipped Kryptonian?

[Siriel]

This is all great but the thread isn't about how Green Lanterns should be, it's about how powerful Kryptonians with rings are as based on evidence in the comics.

If the comics ignore how GL rings were originally presented, then that's a shame but it doesn't actually matter for this thread.

[Captain Morgan]

I never even remotely suggested that.
The point is maybe it's easy for some to wield power cosmic, power cosmic wielders may be born that way? I don't know.
It doesn't matter if they're wielding power cosmic, kryptonian biceps, a flight controller, an architect's ruler, a paint brush, or an oozie on the end of their nose.
THAT! Is not what the ring recognizes and channels.
It's the WILL implementing behind those things.


When you've actually run out of will power as you describe, to even use what you have, ("those other factors") be it power cosmic or a pen, you've lost, regardless of the ring.




Imagination and strategy are useless with out the will to implement them
I can sit here all day "Imagining" something, but unless I or someone wills into being, it's not going to happen
Equally, I can strategies on how to defeat Isil siting in my chair, but unless some ones wills it into being my strategy isn't going to maniphest.

Dude... everyone knows the ring runs on will. No one is saying otherwise. It is, indeed, the thing you need to be a GL. But we have seen Lanterns fight each other before. And we have seen them utilize things IN CONJUNCTION WITH THEIR WILL to accomplish their goals. Kyle Rayner's imagination has always been a big asset, allowing him to overwhelm enemies by unleashing a stream of consciousness series of construct creations in greater numbers than they can respond to. John Stewart's precision helps him, whether it is his military experience letting him stop snipers where other Lanterns fail, or his engineering background allowing him to create the perfect construct to overcome a challenge. Sinestro's ruthless efficiency has allowed him to outthink enemies and maintain his hold over planets or his Corps.

Hal Jordan and Superman team up to move the planet when Starkiller tries to knock it out of orbit. Are you saying Superman's strength there isn't helping the same goal Hal's will is trying to accomplish?

What you are arguing for is that EVERYTHING else is irrelevant when it comes to will power. Not that will power is the most important factor, or more important then the other top 10 factors combined. That NOTHING else matters. This doesn't even make sense when you examine it independent of the comics. But it's also never been the case in actual comics for decades. You are basically arguing fan fiction here. You need to have provide some sort of evidence, and/or refute the decades and decades of evidence that goes against what you are saying.

[Captain Morgan]

This is all great but the thread isn't about how Green Lanterns should be, it's about how powerful Kryptonians with rings are as based on evidence in the comics.

If the comics ignore how GL rings were originally presented, then that's a shame but it doesn't actually matter for this thread.

Yeah. And for that matter, it's also irrelevant to the mythos of the GLC. Considering how many times GL and the DCU as a whole have been rebooted, the actual canon of their concept needs to be examined through the modern lens.

Even ignoring that, alien biology has been relevant to this stuff since before the Green Lantern Corp was the Green Lantern Corp.

[Güicho]

If the comics ignore how GL rings were originally presented, then that's a shame but it doesn't actually matter for this thread.

Considering how many times GL and the DCU as a whole have been rebooted, the actual canon of their concept needs to be examined through the modern lens.

Well yeah, if you're going to ignore the set up and premise as part of the concept and discussion, with that I'm out.

Even ignoring that, alien biology has been relevant to this stuff since before the Green Lantern Corp was the Green Lantern Corp.

Yes relevant in as far as it made no difference in "power", just how it was used.

And it's Corps.




Oh look a blind alien using the ring adapted to his physiology exercising the same power.
Tell us more about how the physical becomes a factor as far as the rings power and what they can do with it.

[Captain Morgan]

Well yeah, if you're going to ignore the set up and premise, with that I'm out.


In as far as it made no difference in "power" just how it was used.
And it's Corps.

That setup and premise hasn't been relevant in at least 30 years. It's like we were having a conversation about Superman flying, and you just started saying "Superman can't fly, he just leaps tall buildings in a single bound." OK, yeah, at one point that might have been true, but the concept has evolved a little since then.

Besides, it's not like you even provided a single scan from that era to back up your claim, and it doesn't even make sense intuitively. So the burden of proof would still be on you.

[The Dork Knight]

I'd like to respectfully disagree,Captain Morgan

Physical stats provide an advantage against lower end GLs but once you get to the level of expertise of Kyle, Hal etc , they become largely meaningless .

Mongul had a ring on each finger . Henshaw had a ring on each finger . I don't think you can classify them as the equals of single lantern weilding GLs.

Henshaw still lost , at the end of it . First time when he was Grandmaster , Hal alone was going toe to toe with him despite him weilding multiple rings . Second time , he ended up as a hunk of metal , at the end of the superman fight , though it is strongly implied that Kara and Karen helped him out ( Hal was also seen running to the rescue at the end of the Henshaw issue ).

Doomsday got the ring at a time he was presented as more powerful than the JLA big 7 put together . And he was implied to be absorbing the GL radiation and using it to power himself up

Mogo served as the source that powered the transport of the rings to the next generation / bearer . He was not an ordinary corps member

But when it came to it , he was blown up by merely John Stewart and during the SCW , was largely inefficient to stop the attack of multiple yellow ring weilders , needing the backup of the corps to survive

Ultimately they do enjoy certain situational advantages : Yat would theoretically have better reflexes under a yellow sun ,and Hal would not waste power trying to contain lead poisoning , but by and large they can replicate whatever biological advantages are granted by virtue of birth : Hal can fight off nano machines trying to control him through his bloodstream for example , in case of the Sinestro corps virus , while reaction speed is something he can amp himself up to , given the chance

Also none of the Lanterns in Blackest Night were particularly more powerful

But I defer to your knowledge on all things Lantern so do correct me if I'm way off base here

[Captain Morgan]

I'd like to respectfully disagree,Captain Morgan

Physical stats provide an advantage against lower end GLs but once you get to the level of expertise of Kyle, Hal etc , they become largely meaningless .

Mongul had a ring on each finger . Henshaw had a ring on each finger . I don't think you can classify them as the equals of single lantern weilding GLs.

Fun fact: having multiple rings has never consistently provided more power. Sure, a couple writers have implied it's a big deal, but it's never actually made sense. Lantern rings have always been capable of duplicating themselves, so why wouldn't they just do it if it helped? And if you even if you have 10 rings, you have the same amount of will power to channel. Splitting it between multiple rings wouldn't change that. Mongul specifically had an incentive to wield multiple rings because, as he pointed out more than once, it was a reminder that he had killed other Sinestro Corps members to cement his hostile takeover. Sinestro, and most other Lanterns, saw no need to. It's not like they had a shortage of rings.

Or: See Hal Jordan loading himself up with yellow rings in the Sinestro Corps war, only for the 1 ringed Sinestro to laugh and say control was what mattered, owning him.

Henshaw still lost , at the end of it . First time when he was Grandmaster , Hal alone was going toe to toe with him despite him weilding multiple rings .

My recollection of that fight included Hal firing off his best shot, hotter than the sun, and it not particularly scratching Henshaw. The Lanterns beating him involved using his own Manhunter WMDs against him, amplifying their own powers and blasting him so hard it blew up the planet.

Second time , he ended up as a hunk of metal , at the end of the superman fight , though it is strongly implied that Kara and Karen helped him out ( Hal was also seen running to the rescue at the end of the Henshaw issue ).

He got beaten off panel, probably by a team up, and he also wanted to get killed. Remember, he's coo coo for cocoa puffs. On panel he basically wasted Superman.

Doomsday got the ring at a time he was presented as more powerful than the JLA big 7 put together . And he was implied to be absorbing the GL radiation and using it to power himself up

Which is still an example of a class 100 amping themselves up further with a ring-- this time to the point where it took a Guardian committing suicide to stop him.

Mogo served as the source that powered the transport of the rings to the next generation / bearer . He was not an ordinary corps member

But when it came to it , he was blown up by merely John Stewart and during the SCW , was largely inefficient to stop the attack of multiple yellow ring weilders , needing the backup of the corps to survive

Nooo. John Stewart killed him by channeling the collective death energy of every Black Lantern from Oa, who Mogo had sucked off Oa and into his core to perpetually melt. (Did I mention Mogo's gravity control can overpower whole armies of Lanterns who have otherwise (often casually) escaped black holes?) Calling Mogo helpless during the SCW ignores TONS of context, too. That involved another sentient planet attacking him, focusing black hole powered gravity thrusters on the single weakest point of Mogo's surface for an extended period of time, while he was also being attacked by a large force of SC members and independently psychic beings. And oh yeah, that fight culminated in planet Ranx basically blowing up on top of him without Mogo being damaged.

And all those Yellow Lanterns fled Mogo as soon as the GLs were authorized to kill, because they knew they wouldn't survive. Mogo had a hard time non-lethally dealing with attacking Lanterns, just as you or I would have a hard time finding a non-lethal way to defeat bacteria. Once the kid gloves come off, Mogo could treat the SC the same way he treated the Black Lantern Corps.

Oh, one other note for Mogo, guy ultimately took down Ganthet by doing a Death Star impression, where dozens of Lanterns (including guys like Kilowag) were failing to in tandem.

Ultimately they do enjoy certain situational advantages : Yat would theoretically have better reflexes under a yellow sun ,and Hal would not waste power trying to contain lead poisoning , but by and large they can replicate whatever biological advantages are granted by virtue of birth : Hal can fight off nano machines trying to control him through his bloodstream for example , in case of the Sinestro corps virus , while reaction speed is something he can amp himself up to , given the chance

They can replicate those advantages, sure. But every bit of focus a Lantern has to put to closing a gap like that is less focus they can put towards actually coming out ahead. Or: Hal Jordan can amp his strength up to class 100 levels, but if you had class 100 will power in a Hal Jordan level body he would be stronger still.

Also none of the Lanterns in Blackest Night were particularly more powerful

Blackest Night was weird. Black Lantern power seemed to depend entirely who they were fighting. Batman and Robin managed to keep Black Lanters at bay with guns while Black Lanterns were killing metas on Earth and GLs on Oa. Most of the super powered BLs didn't even use their construct powers.

If you meant the deputized rainbow brigade... I'm not even sure why Ganthet bothered with a ring, and only 2 of the remaining 6 especially had relevant super powers: The Flash and Wonder Woman. The Flash basically just used the ring at super speed (what else would you expect?) and I don't recall Diana doing much other than fight mooks, and not seem to feel any pain from Red Lantern Mera attacking her.

Another random example that springs to mind is when John and J'onn both get saved by autoshields when Xanshi and it's sun blow up-- John looks nearly dead and quickly passes out where J'onn looks unharmed.

[Captain Morgan]

And again, Dork Knight, I'm not arguing that superior will power won't trump inferior will power and super stats, per se. Merely that biological factors can come into play when will power is roughly equal.

And I apologize if my above post is snarky. It's late and that Guicho guy annoyed me.

[The Dork Knight]

Your reply was fine Cap , no worries . But I would like to note the following points

-the original Emerald twilight arc , Hal was explicitly powered up by having extra rings such that when he faces Sinestro , Sinestro mocks him about not having the guts to face him without the extra firepower

Course that was largely retconned by as far as I know Hal taking the extra rings was at least noted multiple times post revival ( leaving those guys to die in space ) .

Hal being incapable of weilding yellow rings properly seems to have more to do with his inability to control that portion of the spectrum . Of course feel free to correct me on this one


- Hal was impeded by the nanomachines or whatever in his system . But IIRC Hal and Arisia fought him off at least for a while

- Fair enough on the Henshaw thing . But again, guy had 10 rings . And mentions power of the rings (plural ) amping him

- For DD , it's the adaption thing ,specific to him . This was just before or after Hunter/Prey so he was at the peak of his "adapts on the fly" phase. He was feeding off the energies iirc

I don't think that applies that well to other class 100s

- yeah the Black Lantern thing had a lot of context sure . The SCW thing was still him explicitly needing the corps' help .
But yup , I'd forgotten some of Mogo's feats . He is , simply not an ordinary lantern

At this point , I want to point out the whole "powers rings to new bearers " thing but wouldn't that be because of him being a planet in the first place ? I see no other Lanterns doing that

I think you've proved your point re Mogo


- My point was more along the lines of "once you get to Kyle levels , whatever energy you are wasting for amping to class 100 levels is largely meaningless , you are basically a class 100 and then some without too much effort "

For the others , I think the diversion of power is significant . Once you get to people like Kyle , I don't think it matters too much ( unless apparently you are a freakin planet )

- lastly , yes I was talking about the rainbow brigade , who didn't have too many feats really ( like super powered lantern weilders should have imo )

[Captain Morgan]

Your reply was fine Cap , no worries . But I would like to note the following points

-the original Emerald twilight arc , Hal was explicitly powered up by having extra rings such that when he faces Sinestro , Sinestro mocks him about not having the guts to face him without the extra firepower

Course that was largely retconned by as far as I know Hal taking the extra rings was at least noted multiple times post revival ( leaving those guys to die in space ) .

)

Yeah, but the "extra fire power" thing never really gets used again. We see Hal and Henshaw holding multiple rings later largely as homage to the Emerald Twilight cover, which is probably the most iconic GL cover ever released. It still doesn't make any sense. If multiple rings made a difference, and we saw that Lantern rings could duplicate themselves since before Rebirth and all the way into the DCnU, why wouldn't the Lanterns just make themselves a spare ring when they needed one for a Herculean task, or to beat a guy with multiple rings?

- Hal was impeded by the nanomachines or whatever in his system . But IIRC Hal and Arisia fought him off at least for a while

- Fair enough on the Henshaw thing . But again, guy had 10 rings . And mentions power of the rings (plural ) amping him

Again, Henshaw is coo coo for cocoa puffs. Dude didn't especially fight with ruthless efficiency. (Hal also burnt out the nanomachines before he started fighting.)

- For DD , it's the adaption thing ,specific to him . This was just before or after Hunter/Prey so he was at the peak of his "adapts on the fly" phase. He was feeding off the energies iirc

I don't think that applies that well to other class 100s

Maybe not for pure bricks, but my point was that we have seen examples of Lanterns using their rings to increase their physical advantages. For example, Superman could probably synthesize yellow sunlight and pour extra stuff into himself if he didn't just want to amp his strength. Or look at the virus example. We know Lanterns can burn nanomachines out of their own bloodstream, and purge toxins and implants from themselves and others. But when Guy gets infected by a virus with a ring, the virus can defend themselves and they have to send in a specialist (IE, another virus with a ring.)

- yeah the Black Lantern thing had a lot of context sure . The SCW thing was still him explicitly needing the corps' help .
But yup , I'd forgotten some of Mogo's feats . He is , simply not an ordinary lantern

Never claimed he was, haha.

- My point was more along the lines of "once you get to Kyle levels , whatever energy you are wasting for amping to class 100 levels is largely meaningless , you are basically a class 100 and then some without too much effort "

For the others , I think the diversion of power is significant . Once you get to people like Kyle , I don't think it matters too much ( unless apparently you are a freakin planet )

I mean, in all fairness, who else is on Kyle's level going by feats? That being said, if you go high enough up the class 100 scale, like Gladiator or Nu Superman, you get to strength levels that even the best Lanterns would need to work for. If you give Kyle the body of Nu Superman, he's gonna be able to lift a heavier thing then before by combining his strength and will. At the very least he's going to be more durable-- anything which pierces his shields should have it's force blunted by doing so and then have to also overcome their durability.

- lastly , yes I was talking about the rainbow brigade , who didn't have too many feats really ( like super powered lantern weilders should have imo

The Rainbow Brigade existed for like, 3 issues, in a giant clusterfuck of a story that already had too much going on, received no training except what the existing Lanterns could share mid-battle, and really only existed so DC could sell some new action figures. They aren't really a good example of anything. The Black Lanterns were essentially being treated as mooks, and the only substantial players on the board were like, Spectre and Nekron, both of whom were too powerful for this to matter against.

[The Dork Knight]

Thanks Cap ! you have convinced me

[Sharpandpointies]

Yeah, when it comes to Power Rings...

...Call for the Captain.

^_^

[Captain Morgan]

Haha, thanks guys. As an aside, Dork Knight may be interested in checking out this respect thread. It's a rather impressive array of non-Kyle GL feats, though you have to wade through some pre-crisis stuff.

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/...ead.php?t=4598

I haven't been doing a good job at following since Geoff Johns left though, and I was actually going to start a thread to try and gauge the Nu Lanterns.

EDIT: I know respect threads aren't the most popular thing here, and you should read them with a grain of salt, but there's some good stuff in that one.

Also, a new Mogo feat. Using a landmass as a weapon of mass destruction, decimating the third army with a light speed debris field. Mogo doesn't screw around.

http://media.insidepulse.com/zones/i...nual-1-016.jpg

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Yeah, when it comes to Power Rings...

...Call for the Captain.

^_^

Can't particularly stand the Rum, myself.

Our Captain Morgan's pretty okay though :P

[Cody]

Injustice Verse?

How powerful is a Guardian exactly? Can one from post-crisis take on the Supes of post-crisis?