What Abilities Should The Amazons Have?

[Outside_85]

In Story, particularly the Day in the Life story written by Joe Kelly and Phil Jimenez, we see Diana mention that she loves playing with Kryptonian and Martian Tech, as she's working on a cure for I believe is Diabetes with Steel. She's talking about this to Lois. I guess she's just wasting her time with the tech and is just playing with it for fun? If Diana is working and using this tech, the Amazons are as well, as she is our intro point into the Amazon world. This is why it isn't a suprise when the She-Ra Crystal Palace Themysicra is created. The Egyptian and Olympian Goddesses just blessed the Island. The Amazons built it.

(You really should go reread those stories.)

So she thinks she can find the cure for diabetes with the help of a mechanical engineer and some alien tech? Youy know w/e on that.

Ny the looks of things, the Amazons didn't build a single part of that floating contraption; the League built it for them and they just moved into it.

Those aren't Amazons, and goes against what the creator of the book meant for them to be.

Wonder Woman and her cast of characters were doing these things first.

So they should be doing it now.

Amazons are not, nor have they ever been, backwater anything.

Sorry, and this is the problem with the book now.

They are a race of enlightened superpowerful and highly intelligent women.

Anything else is simply not Amazon.

If you want backwater anything, you have the people of Skatrius for that.

Or go make the Atlantians that.

The Amazons should not be that ever.

If that is the case who or what has stopped other Alien Empires from taking over the earth.

That should be the Amazons. They should be able to protect their own planet.

Who has been dead for almost 70 years and had a very unconventional mindset that no one has since cared to follow with any great attention to detail.

Then they stopped and new people started doing it instead. Regardless of who came first the end result is just another generic advanced civilization with nothing unique to offer.

Might as well kill them then.

The entirety of Earth is when compared to alien civilizations and even lacking behind a few of the secret ones of Earth.

No the problem with the book now is that the writer isn't good enough.

You are hopefully aware that 'enlightened' doesn't necessarily mean anything with technology?

No, that is an Amazon, what you are describing is at best a Kryptonian.

Yes because I am quite eager to read a book that hasn't been in publication since the late 80'ties and has more in common with cheesy 80'ties fantasy flicks than anything else.

Why? They are perfectly natural civilization thats echoed the history of mankind from the bottom of the sea, not lived forever in total isolation.

Why not? What makes them so sacred when there are already a dozen other civilizations doing the 'advanced tech' thing?

You mean you don't know the Guardians of Oa actually had a long standing rule of keeping both rings and other interested parties off Earth for the last couple of million years?

And they have and they do, from monsters of myths and gods... leave the space invaders for the lesser races.

[Agent Z]

Well Morrison's doing the technologically advanced Amazons in Earth One. And for some reason, him using Golden Age or Silver Age tropes works. I don't like everything Marston did but I think some ideas can be updated somewhat. And the tech and magic the Amazons use can be primarily effective against magic and myth based enemies, as I said later.

[Agniwolf]

i find it funny that some people still dont get why marston made the amazons that way at that specific time and context, and even why they had to be changed to better fit a more cohesive concept story

but oh well if you guys want the amazons to be the epitome of a tecnological humanity even without the contexts that made the actual contemporary civilizations the way the are, who am i to say you're wrong, they can hav jets in their island even though they lived on a island and as such never had the need for such tech, or deal with computers even before alan turing researched the maths of cryptography, or had gone to the moon before the calculations of katherine johnson

[Shadowedeyes]

I don't necessarily need the Amazons to be highly technologically developed, but I get why some do. At the moment the Amazons literally seem to have no strong points at all. They seemingly haven't built or advanced anything since arriving on the island, they maybe have some magic stuff but it's not really expanded on, you could hardly consider them enlightened in the current continuity, and despite the lip service of them being a warrior culture, anytime they actually go into battle they seem to suffer huge casualties and accomplish very little. Like was said earlier in the thread they seem to get the short straw in terms of fictional civilizations in DC and they really need something.

[Darius]

i find it funny that some people still dont get why marston made the amazons that way at that specific time and context, and even why they had to be changed to better fit a more cohesive concept story

but oh well if you guys want the amazons to be the epitome of a tecnological humanity even without the contexts that made the actual contemporary civilizations the way the are, who am i to say you're wrong, they can hav jets in their island even though they lived on a island and as such never had the need for such tech, or deal with computers even before alan turing researched the maths of cryptography, or had gone to the moon before the calculations of katherine johnson

and yet Da Vinci made drawings of helicopters centuries before aeronautics were ever conceived ... computers and such had been dreamed of long before Turing made them a reality. There are many reasons a society might develop various technology, including simply having brilliant minds. Marston envisioned a society that traveled the stars to visit gods that lived on distant worlds, more sci-fi than fantasy. After his death there were very real political issues that attacked the concept of the Amazons as appropriate for children and DC dialed back the role of women for the next 40 years. Perez cleaned up a lot of retcons and randomness that had come between, and with COIE he was able to reboot the Amazons and Diana with a modern (for the time) re-imagining.

[Pamp_Lusa]

i find it funny that some people still dont get why marston made the amazons that way at that specific time and context, and even why they had to be changed to better fit a more cohesive concept story

but oh well if you guys want the amazons to be the epitome of a tecnological humanity even without the contexts that made the actual contemporary civilizations the way the are, who am i to say you're wrong, they can hav jets in their island even though they lived on a island and as such never had the need for such tech, or deal with computers even before alan turing researched the maths of cryptography, or had gone to the moon before the calculations of katherine johnson

Furthermore, athenian civilization peaked in a period sandwiched between two wars wherein there was Peace, the right set of circumstances can foment creative thinking. Athens was a talent magnet attracting smart ambitious people, very much like Paradise Island in the Golden Age! The Amazons welcomed women among their midst, like the Baroness Von Gunther, where they received rehabilitation and trained to reach their full potential. Themyscira would have all the right conditions to be a hotbed of genius. The apex of Athenian enlightenment lasted only 24 years, imagine what might have been accomplished in 3000-5000 years of uninterrupted peace, and no cultural deterioration like Europe underwent during the dark period. There's absolutely no good reason, as far as I'm concerned, why the Amazons degenerated into the sword-swinging good-for-nothings they are now

[Agniwolf]

Furthermore, athenian civilization peaked in a period sandwiched between two wars wherein there was Peace, the right set of circumstances can foment creative thinking. Athens was a talent magnet attracting smart ambitious people, very much like Paradise Island in the Golden Age! The Amazons welcomed women among their midst, like the Baroness Von Gunther, where they received rehabilitation and trained to reach their full potential. Themyscira would have all the right conditions to be a hotbed of genius. The apex of Athenian enlightenment lasted only 24 years, imagine what might have been accomplished in 3000-5000 years of uninterrupted peace, and no cultural deterioration like Europe underwent during the dark period. There's absolutely no good reason, as far as I'm concerned, why the Amazons degenerated into the sword-swinging good-for-nothings they are now

oh i can see plenty of filosofical development, even some engineering, but lets go with the information we have about development through the eras:

firstly, demographics and city management; by the bronze~iron age the helenic cultures developed a really eficient way of living and sustaining themselves - the city-state the idea was of a city that did not need external factor to provide themselves, and thus comerce palyed the role of bringing the exotic from outer lands to make life easier, but even without caravans it would still be able to sustain itself alone. this type of city was able to supply their peers more or less to the margin of 100.000 people, lets be clear that a city with more than 50.000 people is already considered a enormous city with the start of problems on self sustainance, the romans reached this problem and was one of the reasons they started theirs expansion, to find enough comercial routes under their control to supply their city. the amazons were already out the patriarch world by that time. the millenia goes on and the supply of food requires new tecnologies to keep up with the growing populations, this leads to the development of new agricultural tecnologies to sustain such societies. the amazons would not require such techs cause they departed in the time of the city-state and their cities were self suficient. with no new progeny, or with seletive progeny they would not outgrow their own limits, based on this i will supose the amazon population is around 20.000 people in the marston run, and about 50.000 in azzarelo (counting the malezons)

secondly, peace and war; this one may cause revolt on many people, but many of our daily and most useful tools are derivations of war even the peacefull commercial tecnologies had some derivations towards war which were re-redesigned to civilian purpuses, from the car came armored vehicles and from them the modern vehicles for example, the railroadis a peaceful tecnology that was essential in suppling goods for war, no wonder railroads were the biggest targets, rairoads and vapor trains were created with the intention of carrying large amounts of goods between cities with the shortest time. themiscera is a city-state, it did not need such comercial routes. from trains came boats and boats became frigates, destroyers and dreadnaughts. airplanes? an faaster way to travel beyond the sea, and a very old dream of humanity, first came the balloon, then the dirigible, and lastly the airplanes. but war had come again and this dream of a transport was refited into war machines, and when war became faster so the engines of those war machines got faster too. it leads to the jet engines, they are again re-retrofited into civilian purposes and we got the boings. the amazons? they got pegasus and gryphons, why research air transport tech when everyone lives in the same city? gunpowder? they were not in the patriarch world by the time of the silk road

[Shadowedeyes]

Although a realistic reasoning, it's sadly one that rarely gets applied to other fictional civilizations like Gorilla City and Atlantis, which is probably why I and others dislike it being used in this one specific case.

[Agniwolf]

Although a realistic reasoning, it's sadly one that rarely gets applied to other fictional civilizations like Gorilla City and Atlantis, which is probably why I and others dislike it being used in this one specific case.

i agree there are some really great discrepancies on the other cities, especialy gorilla city, an homage to planet of the monkeys that simply does not fit at all

[warzon]

Hermes should great the amazons the ability of flight.

[Pamp_Lusa]

oh i can see plenty of filosofical development, even some engineering, but lets go with the information we have about development through the eras:

firstly, demographics and city management; by the bronze~iron age the helenic cultures developed a really eficient way of living and sustaining themselves - the city-state the idea was of a city that did not need external factor to provide themselves, and thus comerce palyed the role of bringing the exotic from outer lands to make life easier, but even without caravans it would still be able to sustain itself alone. this type of city was able to supply their peers more or less to the margin of 100.000 people, lets be clear that a city with more than 50.000 people is already considered a enormous city with the start of problems on self sustainance, the romans reached this problem and was one of the reasons they started theirs expansion, to find enough comercial routes under their control to supply their city. the amazons were already out the patriarch world by that time. the millenia goes on and the supply of food requires new tecnologies to keep up with the growing populations, this leads to the development of new agricultural tecnologies to sustain such societies. the amazons would not require such techs cause they departed in the time of the city-state and their cities were self suficient. with no new progeny, or with seletive progeny they would not outgrow their own limits, based on this i will supose the amazon population is around 20.000 people in the marston run, and about 50.000 in azzarelo (counting the malezons)

secondly, peace and war; this one may cause revolt on many people, but many of our daily and most useful tools are derivations of war even the peacefull commercial tecnologies had some derivations towards war which were re-redesigned to civilian purpuses, from the car came armored vehicles and from them the modern vehicles for example, the railroadis a peaceful tecnology that was essential in suppling goods for war, no wonder railroads were the biggest targets, rairoads and vapor trains were created with the intention of carrying large amounts of goods between cities with the shortest time. themiscera is a city-state, it did not need such comercial routes. from trains came boats and boats became frigates, destroyers and dreadnaughts. airplanes? an faaster way to travel beyond the sea, and a very old dream of humanity, first came the balloon, then the dirigible, and lastly the airplanes. but war had come again and this dream of a transport was refited into war machines, and when war became faster so the engines of those war machines got faster too. it leads to the jet engines, they are again re-retrofited into civilian purposes and we got the boings. the amazons? they got pegasus and gryphons, why research air transport tech when everyone lives in the same city? gunpowder? they were not in the patriarch world by the time of the silk road

The Amazons are supposed to be a counterpoint to Men's World and a beacon of Peace, that's the whole bloody point. Whereas here War and Greed drive technological progress, in Paradise Island they thrive in Peace, "thrive" being the operative word. The Amazons are exemplars of what can be accomplished through Peace and collaboration, as opposed to War and Greed. It's crucial that they accomplish MORE showing that Peace is also, actually more, conducive to Growth. Obviously Themysciran technology would be different, more suited to their needs, more in communion with Nature…They wouldn't necessarily arrive at laser guns and weapons of mass destruction, they would though prepare for the eventuality of War...

[Lex Luthor]

the amazons were created for a very specific reason and to relay a specific message and if you dont agree with that message fine but that doesnt mean they should forgo that particular message. either you just disagree with the amazonian philosophy OR you dont read the comic and everything will be kopasetic

[Agniwolf]

the amazons were created for a very specific reason and to relay a specific message and if you dont agree with that message fine but that doesnt mean they should forgo that particular message. either you just disagree with the amazonian philosophy OR you dont read the comic and everything will be kopasetic

that is the thing, i dont disagree with the philosophy (srsly, who the he** was dru***d enought to create a rule that exchanges f to ph?), in fact they shoulg go beyond whatever we know today in this field cause they had enought time t go very deep within it. my disagreement is on the tecnological level and denial of their time cultural origins. my disagreement also goes in the tecnological side cause science is gready and cold blooded in its own premisse. im way into advancement towards nature and magic cause magic had this really close relation with the feminity and emotion, and the witch hunts (not wiard hunt, wich is the mal counterpart), where in fact a way to take awya some really important aspects of women in culture, and make them submissime to the male oppression for millenia as easy targets. and i see very little of defending this side of women story in favor of something that was favored towards the inflating of males ego. there were great women in sciences? yes there are, but they only got some recongnition in the last two centuries. as for magic was simply erased as some fake thing not science and i dont see the defense of magic and its importance to feminity for them here

[Lex Luthor]

that is the thing, i dont disagree with the philosophy (srsly, who the he** was dru***d enought to create a rule that exchanges f to ph?), in fact they shoulg go beyond whatever we know today in this field cause they had enought time t go very deep within it. my disagreement is on the tecnological level and denial of their time cultural origins. my disagreement also goes in the tecnological side cause science is gready and cold blooded in its own premisse. im way into advancement towards nature and magic cause magic had this really close relation with the feminity and emotion, and the witch hunts (not wiard hunt, wich is the mal counterpart), where in fact a way to take awya some really important aspects of women in culture, and make them submissime to the male oppression for millenia as easy targets. and i see very little of defending this side of women story in favor of something that was favored towards the inflating of males ego. there were great women in sciences? yes there are, but they only got some recongnition in the last two centuries. as for magic was simply erased as some fake thing not science and i dont see the defense of magic and its importance to feminity for them here

yeah well marstons amazons were technologically advanced and theres no reason they shouldnt be able to be technologically advanced. being technologically advanced does not negate being close to nature or using magic either and invention and technology isnt inherently about male ego

[Agniwolf]

yeah well marstons amazons were technologically advanced and theres no reason they shouldnt be able to be technologically advanced. being technologically advanced does not negate being close to nature or using magic either and invention and technology isnt inherently about male ego

thing is science was this way for at least 800 years, so it may not be about a males ego today but it certainly was at that time i would give it a bigger number, but a thousand years of dark ages makes it a little difficult, and no, science does not walks hand-in hand with magic, they are each other antithesis