Has Marvel Studios spoiled us comic fans? Are they Overrated?

[JKtheMac]

Of course I can answer that. Phase 2 felt too Disney. It felt half assed in many ways since the first Avengers did so well. Too much slapstick made me turned off. I think Marvel needs DC for competition so that they can challenge themselves

I don't really know what too Disney means, do you mean unrealistic or cartoon like? Do you mean self consciously box office driven? Do you mean highly successful and fun movies for all the family but too much so?

Competition, I think we can all agree on that one. But I haven't seen any yet. But maybe I am biased because I think the Nolan Batman movies are over serious and find them difficult to rewatch. I still prefer the Burton version because it doesn't take itself too seriously. I had to stop myself falling asleep in Man of Steel which was my least favourite superhero movie ever until the latest F4 movie literally made me fall asleep three times.

P.S. I guess the X-Men movies are competition, if anything I like the recent movies as much as many phase two movies, certainly more than Thor 2 which is a mess of a film with some redeeming scenes and acting.

[JKtheMac]

Maybe it is worth collecting my thoughts on Phase 2, it is interesting that I saw less of these at the cinema for example.

Iron Man 3 - on rewatch this has become my favourite Iron Man movie, I love the theme of post traumatic stress and anxiety attacks and the self discovery arc. It also uses the supporting cast very well.

Thor 2 - As a big Thor fan I have mixed feelings for these films because they pitch them at a different audience. Thor 2 just doesn't know what it is trying to be, the Asgardian scenes work well and the Loki material is fun but Malekith is just a faceless villain with no charisma or presence and the London based plot is a bit of an advert for the lesser visited south of the river.

Winter Soldier - made me and many other movie fans sit up and notice. A totally new direction for Marvel and easily in my top three super hero movies ever. Fun and post modern with filmic references and a self conscious choice of genre. Great.

GotG - I was really reluctant to see this at the cinema and refused to believe the hype. I was totally wrong because this was the most fun of all the movies, and I now wish I had caught a theatrical showing. Gonzo Star Wars that for me makes Episode VII look pale and uninteresting in comparison.

AOU - it seems strange to say this about a major blockbuster success, but I think this is very underrated. (Try watching it as the literal conception and birth of The Vision as the first transhuman.) This film rewards multiple viewings as the plot is dense and layered and there is clearly too much connective tissue for other films. I really like this movie.

Ant-Man - wanted to see it at the cinema but didn't manage to. Great fun, good comedic story with playful heist nods and at least on the small screen what looked like solid effects. Casting was the stand out element here and suggests how the franchise will survive quite well in the longer term.

[dragonmp93]

I don't really know what too Disney means, do you mean unrealistic or cartoon like? Do you mean self consciously box office driven? Do you mean highly successful and fun movies for all the family but too much so?

Competition, I think we can all agree on that one. But I haven't seen any yet. But maybe I am biased because I think the Nolan Batman movies are over serious and find them difficult to rewatch. I still prefer the Burton version because it doesn't take itself too seriously. I had to stop myself falling asleep in Man of Steel which was my least favourite superhero movie ever until the latest F4 movie literally made me fall asleep three times.

P.S. I guess the X-Men movies are competition, if anything I like the recent movies as much as many phase two movies, certainly more than Thor 2 which is a mess of a film with some redeeming scenes and acting.

Well, i agree mostly with you, but i do like the Nolan Batman movies, because Batman is supposed to be dark and serious and "HIS PARENTS ARE DEAD" and all of that, and that's the problem with Man of Steel, Superman is supposed to be the counterpoint to Batman's cynicism not someone that agrees with him.
I dont know if it ironic that im only excited for Wonder Woman in a movie about Batman vs Superman.

[Ascended]

I think the Phase 2 stuff has been infinitely better and more varied.

Phase 1 was relatively cookie-cutter. Even though we were going to higher dimensions like Asgard, and exploring World War II history, the movies all follow a fairly constant formula. And it works, dont get me wrong. But its all largely the same; witty one-liners and high-end effects and action scenes. The villains are secondary to the internal conflict the hero is experiencing, and in fact merely serve as a manifestation of that conflict, in effect letting the hero kick his own ass in order to overcome his issues.

Phase 2 just did so much more. First off, Marvel moves in and dominates two new mediums; network tv and original streaming. That offers two completely new methods for telling stories with their own strengths and weaknesses and allowances that other mediums dont have. Brilliant. And the worst that can be said of these efforts is that Agents of SHIELD is just "decent" and Agent Carter is a sleeper hit that not enough people watched despite its high quality (and it still earned a second season). And the Netflix stuff, man, does anyone even need to mention the completely different tones and themes they're playing with? I never would have imagined Marvel would go to those places, but Daredevil and Jessica Jones are among the very best showings Marvel has produced yet.

And the films broke away from the Iron Man formula too. Taking a risk with Guardians was as inspired as it was risky, and even if it did follow the basic "funny-action" formula, its setting was exotic enough to feel new. Winter Soldier, Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron were all much more complex, less-comedic films. And all the movies brought in new genres to the MCU (even Thor 2, one of the weakest Marvel efforts yet).

The only Phase 2 film that disappointed me (other than Thor) was Ant-Man. It was a really fun movie. My son and I saw it theaters and we both liked it. The blu-ray is on my shelf. But its a complete and utter return to the Iron Man, Phase 1 formula, and I was let down by that, given the effort Marvel has put into going in new directions and playing with new tones and themes.

And I think as long as Marvel, and the other studios, keep challenging themselves and taking risks, the comic book movie genre will be fine. Flops will happen, as they've been happening for fifteen years, but as long as the studios give audiences something different, the genre will be fine. And it looks like Marvel plans to continue doing that, if rumors about Ant-Man & Wasp being a romantic comedy CBM are true.

[Ascended]

NO it's a case of Marvel being forced to use others since their big dogs were in other folks hands unlike DC who had 2 guys.

Im not really sure what this has to do with my statement that many of my fellow DC fans seem to think that to be successful, everything has to copy Marvel, and that Marvel films can do no wrong?

Maybe its the headache I've had since I woke up but Im not seeing the connection at all. Did you perhaps misread what I wrote? Or am I just having a hard time braining because of the pain behind my eyes?

[Ken Ashcroft]

I thought DC were going a totally different road to Marvel. The success of the last Batman trilogy was due to the fact that it was a dark,gritty,serious and devoid of the kind of humor and fanboy nods that show up in so many Marvel flicks. Superman tried to follow the same Batman formula which IMO didn't really work for the Superman character but it appears that DC were satisfied with the results and so will go the same way with their next movies. So I don't think they will be copying the Marvel way though I guess they would love the same success.

[Ascended]

I thought DC were going a totally different road to Marvel. The success of the last Batman trilogy was due to the fact that it was a dark,gritty,serious and devoid of the kind of humor and fanboy nods that show up in so many Marvel flicks. Superman tried to follow the same Batman formula which IMO didn't really work for the Superman character but it appears that DC were satisfied with the results and so will go the same way with their next movies. So I don't think they will be copying the Marvel way though I guess they would love the same success.

Oh, DC certainly isnt copying Marvel. But there's a vocal contingent of fans who seem to think that they (and everyone else) should. I myself do not share that opinion. I even loved Man of Steel and dont see the complaints of it being dark and gritty as anything more than people not looking past the (admittedly dark and needless) color filter. MoS wasn't dark, it just wasnt funny.

[Wiccan]

I think AOS(after Winter Soldier, specially season 2) is a lot more than just decent. The season 2 finale totally felt like a movie. Is actually better than some.

[Ascended]

I think AOS(after Winter Soldier, specially season 2) is a lot more than just decent. The season 2 finale totally felt like a movie. Is actually better than some.

I missed a good chunk of season 2, but Im fully caught up on season 3 and am really loving it (seriously growing to love Quake!). But I was speaking more from a ratings perspective than a quality one. AoS has, from what I know, struggled with ratings. Season 2 especially seemed to have a problem finding its audience. Whether thats because the show just didnt catch on or was overshadowed by other networks, I cant speculate on (I dont follow tv stuff closely).

And the season 2 finale was damned good! I did catch that one.

[jamesbill]

I am not of fan of when Marvel tries to go dark in their TV shows. I like AOS very much but DD and JJ on Netflix were not for me at all.

The infuriating part is when you try to discuss what you think are faults the fanboys will lose their minds. Hard to ignore them when there are so many and part of the enjoyment of these movies and shows is the discussion.

Season 2 especially seemed to have a problem finding its audience. Whether thats because the show just didnt catch on or was overshadowed by other networks, I cant speculate on (I dont follow tv stuff closely).

And the season 2 finale was damned good! I did catch that one.

They lost a bunch of people in the first season waiting around for movies to be released but the audience has increased right along with the quality.

[PhantomStranger]

I don't know if "spoiled" is the right word. I do think "overrated" is dangerously close to becoming the right word.

Marvel is dangerously close to coming down with a bad dose of Michael Bey. Certainly in the "flagships" (Avengers, GOTG being the chief of those). RunrunrunrunRUN! JumpjumpjumpJUMP! PewpewpewpewPEW! MoarmoarmoarMOAR!

Too loud. Too busy. Too MUCH. Too FAST. The audience isn't given time to breathe. Just pound away at them with FX and loud noises. (Man of Steel, among it's other problems, was the same way.)

I'm probably going to sit Captain America 3 out. The only film currently in the pipe that I really have any interest in is Dr Strange, which has the advantage of being somewhat isolated and "smaller" than the wider MU. Mind you, they could in theory still frak it up and do a Battle of Five Armies job on it. If that happens, I'm done. There's only so much "tights and fights" I can take. I need some character "meat" to go on the action "bones".

And Marvel just lost their best producer/director for that sort of thing (Joss).

[KingsLeadHat]

I feel that the movies are overrated, even though most of them have been enjoyable and fun. Their actual artistic merits certainly aren't reflected in their rather over-inflated box-office performance. As adaptations, they're pretty good, and I like the general fun tone, but they don't hold a candle to the DC animated universe that Bruce Timm and Co. gave us.

To be fair, all successful movies are overrated in today's climate. People basically only spend money on big budget event films, given that movie and concession prices are so out of control. That said, TV has never been better. Artistically, the best TV is far superior to the best and most successful films as it currently stands.

[Prof. Warren]

I will say that fans are spoiled today, just in the fact that even though we're in an age of high-quality comic book movies, many still feel the need to complain, nitpick, and generally bitch about this and that.

Anyone old enough to have lived through the days when Spider-Man was Nicholas Hammond fighting dime store thugs and shooting thick clothline from his web-shooters or when the Superman films had slid into the bargain basement with QUEST FOR PEACE, or when comic book movies were represented by the likes of STEEL or SPAWN or when the Batman series hit rock bottom with BATMAN AND ROBIN should be jumping up and down over the overall excellence and ambition of today's comic book films. We're living in a golden age of this stuff. If you told a fan twenty years ago that the pop culture cinematic landscape would be dominated by top notch comic book films, they'd say you were crazy. They certainly couldn't imagine anyone bothering to complain about having an embarrassment of riches.

Is every movie that comes out perfect? No. But the overwhelming majority are damn good.

[PhantomStranger]

I feel that the movies are overrated, even though most of them have been enjoyable and fun. Their actual artistic merits certainly aren't reflected in their rather over-inflated box-office performance. As adaptations, they're pretty good, and I like the general fun tone, but they don't hold a candle to the DC animated universe that Bruce Timm and Co. gave us.

To be fair, all successful movies are overrated in today's climate. People basically only spend money on big budget event films, given that movie and concession prices are so out of control. That said, TV has never been better. Artistically, the best TV is far superior to the best and most successful films as it currently stands.

Those are interesting observations.

[Wandacrystal22]

I don't really know what too Disney means, do you mean unrealistic or cartoon like? Do you mean self consciously box office driven? Do you mean highly successful and fun movies for all the family but too much so?

Competition, I think we can all agree on that one. But I haven't seen any yet. But maybe I am biased because I think the Nolan Batman movies are over serious and find them difficult to rewatch. I still prefer the Burton version because it doesn't take itself too seriously. I had to stop myself falling asleep in Man of Steel which was my least favourite superhero movie ever until the latest F4 movie literally made me fall asleep three times.

P.S. I guess the X-Men movies are competition, if anything I like the recent movies as much as many phase two movies, certainly more than Thor 2 which is a mess of a film with some redeeming scenes and acting.

Its both actually. It just feels by the book.