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  1. #1
    Robofspades02
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    Ok so reading the comics lately I can't help but wonder if I'm the only one who feels like the whole court of owls thing just doesn't fit at all with nightwings origins. If the circus was really a breading ground for the owls (who are portrayed as the most powerful unknown group in the area. also they are pretty much all knowing) how was it that mr. Haley could be shaken down. Why weren't the owls already the circus protection? It doesn't make sense for such a powerful group to leave thier training facility unguarded. The moment Zucco threatened, the owls would have already been on it (more that the moment a power like the mob became relevant they would be protecting thier assets). Not only would they have taken care of Zucco before the sabotaged equipment but, he definitely wouldn't have been able to escape and live some secret life for years.

  2. #2
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    You could also ask why they didn't directly took Dick in as Talon after his Parents died, it would have been probaly quite easy to convince him to join during the time he was trying to hunt down Zucco on his own, why the circus was threatened in the first place after rescuing Maronis son during Zero Year (Nightwing #25) and if the few bucks you can get from an small circus as really worth to commit a double murder.

  3. #3
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    But secret mysteries are fun or so they said. Personally speaking nothing about the Court of Owls ever made sense to me,they were just so haphazardly shoehorned in to the mythos that it just turned me off that concept and that arc is my least favourite from Snyders run. Their non sense is the only thing that made sense.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    Personally speaking nothing about the Court of Owls ever made sense to me,they were just so haphazardly shoehorned in to the mythos that it just turned me off that concept and that arc is my least favourite from Snyders run. Their non sense is the only thing that made sense.
    You like Death of the Family more than court? Interesting. I'm curious about Superheavy and like its concept but will wait for the Hardcover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    You like Death of the Family more than court? Interesting. I'm curious about Superheavy and like its concept but will wait for the Hardcover.
    Yeah, though it also comes down to Endgame too,I view DOTF as the first part or the trial run to Endgame. But still DOTF had a sound concept imo even if the execution suffered at various points through out the story. The Court I just found stupid from start to end.

  6. #6

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    I feel Court of Owls was like Batman Inc. where it was designed to be apart of the Pre-52 and it would have followed Black Mirror for Dickbats but the reboot and Snyder getting main Batman changed the story which is why there were plot holes and the Lincoln March stuff did not stick since the hole ordeal with Thomas Wayne, Black Glove, and the whole Wayne family drama of Morrision's epic was fresh in everyone's mind. A good amount of people felt Bruce looked foolish for not believing the Court of Owls were real because he is so obsessive and dedicated to learning about all evils in Gotham that he would not have just dropped it even if he was just a child while with Dickbats it would have been more understandable since he was raised traveling and mostly out of the loop in Gotham and his family name had been changed from Cobb/Crowne to Grayson. The finale of Court of Owls would have been vastly different and more unique if it was Crowne v. Grayson rather than March v. Wayne. The court are still a good villain but the personal connection to Bruce is not as strong as Snyder hoped it would be with March.

  7. #7
    Inquisitive Dzetoun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robofspades02 View Post
    Ok so reading the comics lately I can't help but wonder if I'm the only one who feels like the whole court of owls thing just doesn't fit at all with nightwings origins. If the circus was really a breading ground for the owls (who are portrayed as the most powerful unknown group in the area. also they are pretty much all knowing) how was it that mr. Haley could be shaken down. Why weren't the owls already the circus protection? It doesn't make sense for such a powerful group to leave thier training facility unguarded. The moment Zucco threatened, the owls would have already been on it (more that the moment a power like the mob became relevant they would be protecting thier assets). Not only would they have taken care of Zucco before the sabotaged equipment but, he definitely wouldn't have been able to escape and live some secret life for years.
    Well, that's a good point, and speaks to the kind of plot holes that inevitably arise when major story elements get retroactively inserted into a long-standing portion of some fictional universe. Actually, this specific hole doesn't bother me very much. Remember, the Court isn't a corporation. It isn't even a business along the lines of a crime syndicate or Mafia family. It's a group of aristocrats who embody all the worst tendencies of their class. They don't particularly care what the peasants do to each other and don't feel much obligation toward their petitioners. If Haly has problems, too bad for him, it's beneath their concern and up to him to produce another Talon on time. Whereas Zucco would have been in severe trouble if he interfered with a business operation of Falcone or Maroni or Penguin, to the Court he's just an overweight spider feeding on cockroaches, and they will have the footman deal with him if he scuttles onto the tablecloth.

    Actually, I think the much bigger plot hole has to do with Zero Year. The Riddler represented a direct threat to them in a way that someone like Zucco never could. Yet, they seemed content to let him bring Gotham to the brink of literal destruction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzetoun View Post
    Well, that's a good point, and speaks to the kind of plot holes that inevitably arise when major story elements get retroactively inserted into a long-standing portion of some fictional universe. Actually, this specific hole doesn't bother me very much. Remember, the Court isn't a corporation. It isn't even a business along the lines of a crime syndicate or Mafia family. It's a group of aristocrats who embody all the worst tendencies of their class. They don't particularly care what the peasants do to each other and don't feel much obligation toward their petitioners. If Haly has problems, too bad for him, it's beneath their concern and up to him to produce another Talon on time. Whereas Zucco would have been in severe trouble if he interfered with a business operation of Falcone or Maroni or Penguin, to the Court he's just an overweight spider feeding on cockroaches, and they will have the footman deal with him if he scuttles onto the tablecloth.

    Actually, I think the much bigger plot hole has to do with Zero Year. The Riddler represented a direct threat to them in a way that someone like Zucco never could. Yet, they seemed content to let him bring Gotham to the brink of literal destruction.
    Presumably they weren't active during Zero Year, because the whole of 'Court everyone keeps saying 'something terrible has come back' to Gotham, presumably suggesting that these new aristocrats started up the whole Owl shenanigans again after a gap.

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