Friend or Foe- Cyclops Future

[ZNOP]

Yes he did it and was arrested for this crime unlike other supposed heroes like Tony and other Iluminattis or Wanda.

I said brought to "trial" for his crime.

He would still be arrested or die as a martyr if they had not killed that new mutant. He realized regardless of being arrested or dying mutants continue to be targets nothing has changed despite all the sacrifices. Scott would never have taken this path if not for this incident men create their own demons this is a fact.

Wait... Are you saying your not going to use the "Phoenix made me do it" defense? But, now that you mentioned it -- mutant humans kill innocent baseline humans for no good reason -- who was behind M-Day or the release of the Terrigen Mist into the atmosphere again?

[Jumbo]

If that's the case one can say it was logical for him to kill Chuck it was self defense afterall.

If Charles had wanted to kill Cyclops, it would be logical. But he obviously didn't want to, so Cyclops actions were disproportionate. While the majority Wolverine enemies attack to kill.

[somacula]

I said brought to "trial" for his crime.



Wait... Are you saying your not going to use the "Phoenix made me do it" defense? But, now that ypu mentioned it -- mutant humans kill innocent baseline humans for no good reason not to mention neither M-Day nor the Terrigen Mist contamination have anything to do with them.

"If the Phoenix doesn't fit, you must acquit! "
I'd payed to read that trial, imagine if Cyclops gets to choose the jury...

[ZNOP]

"If the Phoenix doesn't fit, you must acquit! "
I'd payed to read that trial, imagine if Cyclops gets to choose the jury...

Hh! Good thing that's not how the law works

BTW... I had to tweak my last post.

[Beorg]

I think Scott should stay ''dead'' for a while and be a martyr for oppressed mutants across the world, as well as a reminder of how ideologies of mutant supremacy and self righteousness can lead to what happened in AvX.

[Striderblack01]

Oh, boy. Not this again.

Why don't we focus on where we want Scott to be rather than his culpability, or lack there of, in Xavier's death. There's like, a million other threads where we can discuss that.

On topic:

I pretty much echo Kisinith's statements.
I have no problem with Revolutionary-Clops playing the antagonist every once in a while, as long as he's not reduced to some two-bit villain, which would eventually happen. I'd rather he be a morally gray, wild-card type, but that actually doesn't fit with his characterization at all. At heart, he's still a boyscout. He still wants Xavier's dream of co-existence. It's only the fact that mutants now continuously face extinction that have forced him to 'extremes'.

Desperate times and all that.

[ZNOP]

I think Scott should stay ''dead'' for a while and be a martyr for oppressed mutants across the world, as well as a reminder of how ideologies of mutant supremacy and self righteousness can lead to what happened in AvX.

Tyke the terrible would still be running around and he'd be reminder enough so that fans (of his) from near and far would just transfer all of the adults accomplishments (minus his numerous failures) to the teen.

[DavidMunroe]

I think he should get killed off. Cyclops is boring and a bit of a fraud.

[Hariel0079]

Yes he did it and was arrested for this crime unlike other supposed heroes like Tony and other Iluminattis or Wanda. He would still be arrested or die as a martyr if they had not killed that new mutant. He realized regardless of being arrested or dying mutants continue to be targets nothing has changed despite all the sacrifices. Scott would never have taken this path if not for this incident men create their own demons this is a fact.

Scott was arrested and never went to trial of his own accord. If scott died in jail he wouldn't be a martyr. (that's not how that works)

[somacula]

Scott was arrested and never went to trial of his own accord. If scott died in jail he wouldn't be a martyr. (that's not how that works)

It depends on how you die, or if you spend a lot of time in jail; e.g Nelson Mandela and Princess Diana (big conspiracy). If cyclops had found the right way to get killed, gather enough media attention and made everyone blame Obama administration or the illuminati he'd became a martyr or an icon (like jean)

[ZNOP]

Oh, boy. Not this again.

Why don't we focus on where we want Scott to be rather than his culpability, or lack there of, in Xavier's death. There's like, a million other threads where we can discuss that.

On topic:

I pretty much echo Kisinith's statements.
I have no problem with Revolutionary-Clops playing the antagonist every once in a while, as long as he's not reduced to some two-bit villain, which would eventually happen. I'd rather he be a morally gray, wild-card type, but that actually doesn't fit with his characterization at all. At heart, he's still a boyscout. He still wants Xavier's dream of co-existence. It's only the fact that mutants now continuously face extinction that have forced him to 'extremes'.

Desperate times and all that.

And, who brought about this continuous extinction again?

[Knives]

Scott was arrested and never went to trial of his own accord. If scott died in jail he wouldn't be a martyr. (that's not how that works)

I said brought to "trial" for his crime.



Wait... Are you saying your not going to use the "Phoenix made me do it" defense? But, now that you mentioned it -- mutant humans kill innocent baseline humans for no good reason -- who was behind M-Day or the release of the Terrigen Mist into the atmosphere again?

He will never be judged would keep him imprisoned indefinitely or kill him before the trial this became clear. Or be judged in a military court to prevent his words and defense be made public for fear of mutants begin a war.

Regardless of the result it would be for many a hero symbol of a crusade and if anyone doubts that do not forget the movement Cyclops is right.

About Phoenix is true Cyclops was out of control and would never do that in other circumstances but the desire to kill Xavier was real as a result of circumstances such as when Wanda decimated the mutants even out of his mind that was the result of his sadness and despair which were directed to thing her father most prized the mutant species.

Despite the failure of the Phoenix five for a while there was peace in the world and refugees were able to return home with the end of wars what you think happened to them after AvX? Those people who have been saved temporarily and only knew pain and death for them Scott and the others were like gods and saviors or heroes.

[dragonmp93]

And, who brought about this continuous extinction again?

The Scarlet Witch, The Avengers, and Black Bolt and his brother.

[AJpyro]

About that whole never went to trial thing: if that's the case, then how does AvX: Consequences work?

As to the OP, I'd like for him to be that uncertain ally to the x-men. I like the revolutionary angle and seeing as how the MU is all about upholding the status quo, Cyke being viewed as less than credible/good does make sense. Plus it puts the x-men in a weird position between the old guard/new kids and the mutants that still pop up.

But like Kisinth said, it needs to be written with sense. So...I'm not optimistic about it. ALso: off-panel heel turns suck. Hard.

[Kisinith]

I wonder whether there is at least one thread about the Cyclops, where Cyclops fans did not write garbage about Logan? There's something sick ...
All actions Wolverine logical and understandable, if you read his solo comic books.

You seem to have misunderstood the point of what I was writing, it wasn't a condemnation of the characters but of the Hero vs Hero trope and the writers who continually make characters juggle the idiot ball to justify the HvH BS. The same effect holds true across all of Marvel's HvH landscape, look at how badly Iron Man's characterization has suffered to promote that crap, Look at how badly they beat down Reed, Tony and Pym during Civil War. Look at how much everyone involved juggled the idiot ball during AvX. This is clearly not simply a Cyclops thing, but because we were discussing Cyclops I cited examples of this that involved him which, like it or not, means discussing Wolverine. Its actually entirely contextually appropriate to the point I was making and has nothing to do with bashing the character in any way.

Whats more when discussing the status and direction of Cyclops character, it is entirely necessary to do so with the context of Schism which at its heart was a conflict between Cyclops and Wolverine and I stated so in my original post. Further, also within the context of Schism, I'm sorry but Wolverine was a hypocritical, inconsistent, out of character, whiny bitch. And he was written so not because it made any sense at all, not even just within the context of the story, but because they wanted a conflict between Wolverine and Cyclops and it was a cheap and easy way to start a fight.

Lastly, while Logans actions may have been internally consistent within any given book they were wildly inconsistent when taken across all of the books he was appearing in.