Maximum Carnage

[Mister Mets]

Maximum Carnage may just be the most divisive Spider-Man story ever. There are plenty of readers who downright hate it. But it's popular enough that it's consistently in print, and more impressively, appears on best of lists voted for by the fans.

http://marvel.com/news/comics/23034/...cs_of_all-time

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...master-list/3/

So, what do you guys think about it?

Right now, I've reread the first half, and one takeaway is how much quality varies issue to issue. Some thoughts...

Spider-Man Unlimited #1 shows one odd structural decision: Tom DeFalco is asked to write the first and last parts. His take on Carnage is more silly than menacing, but he does highlight a difficult time in Peter's life (Harry Osborn's just been buried) and has a cool cliffhanger with Carnage confronting Jonah at the Daily Bugle.

Web of Spider-Man #101 dashes that cliffhanger as Carnage just leaves the Bugle figuring he sent Spider-Man a message. The previous issue had ended with Spider-Man collapsing post-beatdown, and this issue oddly opens with Spider-Man getting menaced by random thugs before superheroes show up. There's an inevitable rematch with the bad guys, although the good guys suffer a casualty, which does raise the stakes pretty well.

The scene in the cover does not happen, which is a dumb move.


Amazing Spider-Man #378 has some nice art by Bagley, a really generic fight between Peter and MJ, but it also conveys the chaos caused by Carnage pretty well.

Spider-Man #35 by David Michelinie and Tom Lyle is pretty decent, with a nasty fight scene between the assembled heroes and Carnage's forces. It also gets the discomfort of Spider-Man fighting alongside Venom.

Spectacular Spider-Man #201 by DeMatteis and Buscema is the best issue so far. There's a nice issue where May tries to give Peter advice, and her optimistic view of the world differs from that of Peter's father who claims to have spent a generation in a Soviet labor camp. The heroes split up due to disagreements between Peter's world view, and Venom's willingness to kill. A riot by people panicking about Carnage (which would have been stronger if we've seen more of ordinary people's reactions to the chaos, but that's a quibble) leads to a powerful cliffhanger in which Spider-Man, admittedly under a lot of stress, snaps.

Web of Spider-Man #102 by Kavanagh and Savuik forgets that cliffhanger completely. The heroes reconcile for no more reason than that the plot called for it. A pissed off Mary Jane goes to a club to dance with a lot of guys, and the club gets attacked by Carnage, a potentially powerful plot point that isn't taken advantage of. This really rates pretty low as far as single issues of Spider-Man go.

Amazing Spider-Man #379 highlights the ridiculous padding with an opening where the heroes waste time at Cletus Kassidy's old house. There are some further additions, which aren't particularly meaningful, as Carrion joins the bad guys and Deathlok gets involved. Due to Carnage's weakness to fire, and the Fantastic Four being out of town, the heroes make a smart move and get Firestar's help, while also raiding the Fantastic Four's headquarters for weapons, leading to one scene which cuts to the F4's busted security system.

Unlimited #1 also had a pretty good 22 page story by Mike Baron and Jerry Bingham that I'm guessing was meant to be an inventory. It's got an interesting hook with Peter suddenly waking up as a teenager with vague memories of his life as Spider-Man (a concept that's been done in a lot of sci-fi but is done pretty well here.)

[Zeitgeist]

Ugh. I could go on a lengthy diatribe about why it's an example of the worst aspects of 90's comics, being as overwrought, nonsensical and overindulgent as it is, but I'll just leave it with two words which sum up the terribleness of it all: "good bomb".

[Celgress]

I still enjoyed it for the moral dilemma Peter faced - to kill a foe in cold blood for the greater good. A stance that goes against who Peter is at his very core.

[frizb]

It's been forever since I read it, but I'm almost up to this point in my re-reading of everything. Other than it crossing over through like 5 books, I think I rember liking it. That was almost 25 years ago though so we shall see soon enough.

[LordMikel]

I always liked it. It is the comic is promised it to be. You had Carnage, Venom and Spider-man. They fought.

Compared to the Hulk versus Thanos comic I just finished reading where they didn't fight. Or Age of Ultron with no Ultron nor fighting.

If you are reading it thinking you are getting something different, probably shouldn't be reading it. But if you want to read a comic where Venom fights Carnage fights Spider-man, here you go.

[Mister Mets]

Finished it...

Spider-Man #36: Lots of generic fighting with nice art by Tom Lyle.

Spectacular Spider-Man #202: This issue by DeMatteis and Buscema is pretty good. If every part of the crossover was on the same level I could understand why it rates so high. The heroes have some difficult moral choices, that come naturally from the story. The fight scenes are well-choreographed, and there are some great character moments. It ends with a new hero joining the fray, but this time it's a welcome addition.

Web of Spider-Man #103: And now we're back to mindless fighting, although it does keep up the momentum.

Amazing Spider-Man #380: There are some powerful scenes where the heroes have to comfort psychotic civilians, and some solid twists, even if it comes from a sudden reversal.

Spider-Man #37: The fighting's chaotic (and not in the good way) although there are some solid twists, especially when it comes to Venom.

Spectacular Spider-Man #203: The "good bomb" does not make for a satisfactory conclusion.

Spider-ManUnlimited #2: Too many false endings for the finale. It just repeats what we've seen before on a slightly smaller scale since most of the other heroes and bad guys are gone.

I didn't care for the story. The central concept (New York City freaks out when Carnage assembles a small group of mass murderers, and Spider-Man gets heroes to fight with him) is pretty good, but the material is padded, and suffers from 1990s storytelling, as well as suddent reversals.

I think this is the longest Spider-Man story to date, which is an impressive record, especially given the popularity of the material.

[LOSTie-chan]

Fun fact: The Maximum Carnage issues are the first comics I've ever read.

I was digging through my dad's collection and I thought the story line looked cool so I read them. I liked it so much that it paired with the Spectacular Spider-man cartoon got me into reading more comics.

Looking back on it it's definitely a mess but it's an enjoyable hot mess. At least to me. :3

[LordMikel]

Finished it...

Spider-ManUnlimited #2: Too many false endings for the finale. It just repeats what we've seen before on a slightly smaller scale since most of the other heroes and bad guys are gone.

I do agree with that assessment.

[Venomous Mask]

It should have been tighter in its storytelling; I agree that there was way too much padding. I do love the idea of Carnage's chaos world dream becoming a reality, though it does begin to drag a bit towards the end. The good bomb ending didn't bother me that much; I honestly thought it was a clever ending. Still regardless of any flaws of the comic, the Genesis/SNES game was awesome.

[Mister Mets]

Thinking about it, I'm a bit surprised there haven't been more riffs on it (aside from "Maximum Cloneage" and "Minimum Carnage.") It seems like an idea that can lend itself to more comics (team of heroes VS team of villain while bystanders freak out.) So, why not have "Maximum Goblin" (Norman Osborn shares the Goblin tech with more bad guys) or "Maximum Lizard" (Connors creates more mutates; drives the city insane with his appeal to peoples' reptile brains)

[Spider-Tron]

Reread it a year or two back...... Just reads horrible IMO.

Great snes game though

[oldschool]

Don't know about "most divisive Spidey story ever" but it essentially embodied all that was comics in the '90's: completely over-the-top "extreme" setup with a metric ton of guest stars, eye-popping exaggerated artwork and a story that was little more than a plot outline to serve as the vehicle to sell as many chapters and tie-ins as possible. Oh....and the narrative also would serve as the reason for a video game of course.

Like most of the overblown 1990's stories, they would likely have been much better received had there been any editorial control at all and certainly better writers at the helm would help. "Spider-Verse", just to put things in modern-day context, could easily have fallen prey to this same affliction but it was generally much better received thanks to an actual story that----while it may have fallen a bit flat in the final chapter---was much better plotted out.

[comicscollector]

Have not read it in many years, at the time it was published i enjoyed the story and the video game but there were much better Spider Man story arcs in the 90s as the first Venom story arcs or the return of the Sinister Six, both in Amazing Spider Man.

[dimo1]

Ah, the good old times.
I remember being in the army back then, and I had tons of time to kill. Even back then it felt stretched, the fights went on for ages, art was medicore, except Lyle and Bagley to a certain extent.
Sorry, but crossovers rarely work, just right now I can't think of one which really was great. Maximum Carnage definitely falls into the first category.

[bela rakosi]

Can someone please send me full scan cover of trade paperback from this comic?