PREVIEW: Superman: American Alien #3

[MeloDet]

Maybe I'm giving Gates too much credit here, but when he says, "y'know, i really, really didn't need a comic book where superman gets stoned and has sex with a stranger (who thinks he's someone else)" in a tweet with limited room for characters, I can kind of get what he's saying. He's using "stoned" as a shorthand to explain the effect of the toxin. Regardless of the technicalities of what the substance was, the bottom line is Landis engineered the situation so that Superman would be intoxicated. It's a little more difficult to understand where Gates is coming from with the "stranger" and "thinks he's someone else" comments. If by "stranger," he means someone Clark just met, well that's true. If by, "thinks he's someone else" he means, Barb thought he was human, well that's true too. I've always felt women deserve to know that they're having sex with an alien.

I understand where you're coming from, but I do think you are giving Gates too much credit. Your interpretations of his comments are absolutely things I could I understand someone being upset about (particularly the fact that even though he isn't high he is acting high; it doesn't bug me, but I could see someone who is staunchly anti-drugs being bothered by it), it just seems way too unlikely that his shorthand explanations match so perfectly with the impression one might be given from skimming the book or reading reviews.

*Edit: As for sleeping with someone he just met, while that is true it's worth remembering that people have different standards when it comes to that sort of thing. Some people think Superman having sex outside of marriage at all is wrong and others wouldn't even be fazed if Clark and Barbara had sex right after she pulled him away from everyone else. It's true that these things should differ from character to character, and I think most of us would agree that Clark would fall more on the hesitant side of things, but personally speaking their (surprisingly in-depth for having just met) conversations were enough that I personally never felt their sleeping together was unnatural or out of character.

[Tayswift]

Maybe I'm giving Gates too much credit here, but when he says, "y'know, i really, really didn't need a comic book where superman gets stoned and has sex with a stranger (who thinks he's someone else)" in a tweet with limited room for characters, I can kind of get what he's saying. He's using "stoned" as a shorthand to explain the effect of the toxin. Regardless of the technicalities of what the substance was, the bottom line is Landis engineered the situation so that Superman would be intoxicated. It's a little more difficult to understand where Gates is coming from with the "stranger" and "thinks he's someone else" comments. If by "stranger," he means someone Clark just met, well that's true. If by, "thinks he's someone else" he means, Barb thought he was human, well that's true too. I've always felt women deserve to know that they're having sex with an alien.

sterling didn't said clark got himself stoned, but he got stoned on the story even if it was because of deathstroke serum. that wasn't that well explained, like he still send deathstroke flying miles away but get stoned? lol.
well he meet her on a day, barely knew her and already slept with her. that is not what clark kent do. but all cool kids do this today, so probably is fine.
well clark doesn't know he is a alien here, not yet. the only thing he could say is that he has powers...
but I guess sterling gates says that he thinks clark didn't told minerva he wasn't bruce wayne

As for my feelings on the issue, I didn't think it was anything special. I also disagree that Barb was treated as an equal by the narrative. We learned a little bit about her, but far less than we learned about Clark. Also, by the end she's had more of an effect on him than he's had on her. He's had really no impact on her at all. Lori Lemaris would have been a better choice for the love interest, too, in my opinion. In fact, the Lori stories I've read might be superior to this one. It's been awhile since I've read them, so I can't be sure.

agree, why not use lori since they are on a cruise on the sea? lost opportunity.
the narrative treats barbara as a manic pixie girl, a sexist trope and that what it is.

[misslane]

sterling didn't said clark got himself stoned, but he got stoned on the story even if it was because of deathstroke serum. that wasn't that well explained, like he still send deathstroke flying miles away but get stoned? lol.

Right, I think he was just using stoned as a euphemism for being intoxicated.

well clark doesn't know he is a alien here, not yet. the only thing he could say is that he has powers...
but I guess sterling gates says that he thinks clark didn't told minerva he wasn't bruce wayne

True, he was concealing his superpowers from her and not his alien nature, which he isn't aware of yet I suppose. If Gates meant that Barb didn't know he wasn't Bruce Wayne, which he very well could mean that, then he's wrong. She did know.

agree, why not use lori since they are on a cruise on the sea? lost opportunity.
the narrative treats barbara as a manic pixie girl, a sexist trope and that what it is.

I think Lori would have been a great choice, but even with her inclusion I'm not sure some of the more questionable tropes wouldn't have been employed.

[Superlad93]

True, he was concealing his superpowers from her and not his alien nature, which he isn't aware of yet I suppose.

Clark Know all too well that he's an alien in American Alien. It's clear in every issue including this one.

I think Lori would have been a great choice, but even with her inclusion I'm not sure some of the more questionable tropes wouldn't have been employed.

I actually think Barbra was a very good choice if you look at the "wild life" analogy going on throughout the book.

[Superlad93]

I odn't get it. he didn't liked the story, he has his right to channel it. the only think ironic here, is the creator bashing here just because of a different opinion.

But that's not just it at all is it? Gates made a toxic hyperbolic statement, and he flat out lied at the end. Saying he just didn't dig the issue would be one thing. This is not that. "bet you both five bucks it gets an Eisner nom"? That's just childish.

I don't know if he read or not, he probably saw some scans and critics, it still is his opinion and it still valid.

Lol no it's not. If he didn't actually read the whole thing then his time with the book isn't complete an thus his scolding of the book holds less weight. It's like if I just heard All Star Superman sucked from my cousin and then only read a preview. I wouldn't be qualified to make a valid opinion on the book as a whole. Point blank.

also poor barbara minerva, just a manic pixie girl and a sexual conquest for superman. wth is happening that wonder woman characters have to sleep with superman! screw that

This is pretty short sighted view of the book. And honestly it's you doing a disservice to the character of Barbara more than anything.

[misslane]

Clark Know all too well that he's an alien in American Alien. It's clear in every issue including this one.

Okay, well that's what I thought. However, someone told me differently, and I suppose I shouldn't have questioned my gut recollection. My original point stands, then, that Clark not disclosing he was an alien to Barb before having sex with her is problematic. I think a woman should be able to make informed consent about such things.

I actually think Barbra was a very good choice if you look at the "wild life" analogy going on throughout the book.

Huh? Lori is a mermaid who lives in a world of undersea creatures. She could work just as effectively, if not moreso, than Barb whose only connection to wildlife in this issue was her telling a story about seeing cheetahs and the fact that she's known to become Cheetah in the future. Lori is an actual half-fish already, and would have suited the story just fine.

[misslane]

This is pretty short sighted view of the book. And honestly it's you doing a disservice to the character of Barbara more than anything.

Defend that accusation, then. Research what a Manic Pixie Dream Girl is and then describe how effectively the story avoids the major elements of that trope.

[Virile Agitur]

Superman had sex and was drunk.

even if that wasn't exactly how things played out in the story...

how dare a young man do such things! how dare superman have recognizable human traits! how dare a writer write the character as a well-rounded person with more than one dimension!

sheesh. it just gets worse for this poor, beleaguered character.

[Superlad93]

Okay, well that's what I thought. However, someone told me differently, and I suppose I shouldn't have questioned my gut recollection. My original point stands, then, that Clark not disclosing he was an alien to Barb before having sex with her is problematic. I think a woman should be able to make informed consent about such things.

Well that opens up a more sensitive fictional situation. It can be looked at as someone not telling you they're half black but just look white or they're of a different religion. Or it can be looked at much more literally as someone maybe having sex with a shape shifting monster not being told.

I think based on the greater context of this book, "American Alien", Landis is treating it as my former example. The way Clark talks to his friends in issue #2 is more in line with the idea that he's just an immigrant from a little farther than across the pond or that he's of a different religion.

Ultimately Idk. It just comes down to unlike you I didn't find issue with it.

Huh? Lori is a mermaid who lives in a world of undersea creatures. She could work just as effectively, if not moreso, than Barb

Sure, you could make that argument. But I just think Barbara works a little better with the imagery of the jungle and mammal wild life rather than undersea life. The party goers are more like a pack of animal and Barb is on safari again but she doesn't seem to realize she's one of those animals too.

I think Lori would have been too 'on the noise' with being a mermaid, and it wouldn't have had that "law of the jungle" idea that a cheetah comes with, I feel.

[Superlad93]

Defend that accusation, then. Research what a Manic Pixie Dream Girl is and then describe how effectively the story avoids the major elements of that trope.

No, it's funny because Barb is and isn't that. It's something she seems to fight (or pretend to fight) but ultimately falls into. It's that wild life analogy again. She thinks she's on safari and that there's a barrier between he and "them", but she's been to everyone of these parties. And from what we 'know' about her future we that she become and "animal" just like the rest. It's a strange tragic story, to me.

I just think it was more than she was just a "manic pixie dream girl" that Clark has sex with and that's it.

Edit: But to the trope more specifically: The short answer is yes and I think that was okay.

[Superlad93]

even if that wasn't exactly how things played out in the story...

how dare a young man do such things! how dare superman have recognizable human traits! how dare a writer write the character as a well-rounded person with more than one dimension!

sheesh. it just gets worse for this poor, beleaguered character.

Oh but haven't you heard? It goes "the father, the son, and holy Superman" haha

[Tayswift]

even if that wasn't exactly how things played out in the story...

how dare a young man do such things! how dare superman have recognizable human traits! how dare a writer write the character as a well-rounded person with more than one dimension!

sheesh. it just gets worse for this poor, beleaguered character.

one dimension? so one night stands and getting drunk add dimensions to the characters?

No, it's funny because Barb is and isn't that. It's something she seems to fight (or pretend to fight) but ultimately falls into. It's that wild life analogy again. She thinks she's on safari and that there's a barrier between he and "them", but she's been to everyone of these parties. And from what we 'know' about her future we that she become and "animal" just like the rest. It's a strange tragic story, to me.

I just think it was more than she was just a "manic pixie dream girl" that Clark has sex with and that's it.

my friend was talking about it, and it just the basic mani pixie girl characterization. she continues the same, while clark clearly knows what to do with his future and is truly changed.
it's not me that used the trope, I like that the faul lies on me not on landis.

[Agniwolf]

one dimension? so one night stands and getting drunk add dimensions to the characters?

have you ever heard of the imperfection trait? or about human flaws?

but then again, his holiness is an alien and as such should not have those things in his impecable/untarnished character

[Superlad93]

one dimension? so one night stands and getting drunk add dimensions to the characters?

No, but mistakes and being a fallible human being does.

my friend was talking about it, and it just the basic mani pixie girl characterization. she continues the same, while clark clearly knows what to do with his future and is truly changed.
it's not me that used the trope, I like that the faul lies on me not on landis.

I'll point you to what I said here:

"No, it's funny because Barb is and isn't that. It's something she seems to fight (or pretend to fight) but ultimately falls into. It's that wild life analogy again. She thinks she's on safari and that there's a barrier between her and "them", but she's been to everyone of these parties. And from what we 'know' about her future we that she become and "animal" just like the rest. It's a strange tragic story, to me.

I just think it was more than she was just a "manic pixie dream girl" that Clark has sex with and that's it."

Edit: But to the trope more specifically: The short answer is yes and I think that was okay.

[Superlad93]

Going with the animal theme more you could almost see the future "Cheetah" as Clark's "spirit animal" while he's in this "where the wild things are" heightened reality that is BW's boat. It's this strange world were gold flakes that could be used to save lives are eaten in hot tubs, and everyone only sees what they want to see. She's like a spirit or safari guide that anchors our main character and helps them navigate the wild/dream world. At the same time it's tragic because she's caught in that world (even more tragic when you think about what it leads to for her). Clark wants to 'white knight' her and presumable look after her like the vet he wanted to be, but that's not how people work and she lets him know that.

So in that context I think it's an interesting modern twist on the myths were the hero must venture through a dream world or underworld till they see the light at the end. But that's just my interpretation and how I enjoyed it so much.

MPDG? Yes, but I think it works for this story.