Secret Wars 9 *Spoilers*

[JKtheMac]

It depends on what the purpose of SHIELD is? If it's just to expound a secret society, that influenced the modern Silver Age alone, then the series could just help place LDV and Nightmask in the current TRO framework, as existing when the Incursions destroyed everything.

Was SHIELD telling anything else? If one of the characters could have had an influence on the outcome of Secret Wars, we would have seen them by now that the SW was over? To me we didn't see Nathaniel Richards, or old Franklin and Valeria, or anybody jumping out suddenly, because Victor changed history so very late with Molecule Man. I would have expected Cable, Kang, anybody who had access to time travel to make appearances at some point during TRO, but it all happened too late and quickly. Nobody could back track the Incursion trigger point, because it hadn't happened yet. The trigger point came just before the last Incursion. That was the limiting factor to any intervention. Anybody that would have tried would have gone back to FF #20 at Molecule mans origin, to find Doom stabbing Owen, but he wasn't there. Owen lived a long and full life up to 2015. So a parallel timeline was running alongside the MU that no one could access, where the Incursions were going on.

At least on one level SHIELD seems to be about transcending linear concepts of time. The plot was paused before we really examined what the human machine analogy was all about, but the implication is it will provide a mystical insight that reveals an underlying truth about reality. Anything that goes to that place will at least give us insight into how Hickman looks at meta-physics or time theory in the MU. It may provide more.

[jackolover]

At least on one level SHIELD seems to be about transcending linear concepts of time. The plot was paused before we really examined what the human machine analogy was all about, but the implication is it will provide a mystical insight that reveals an underlying truth about reality. Anything that goes to that place will at least give us insight into how Hickman looks at meta-physics or time theory in the MU. It may provide more.

Maker in ANAD is looking into this right now, too. He wants to determine the nature of this reality.

[JKtheMac]

Maker in ANAD is looking into this right now, too. He wants to determine the nature of this reality.

Can you or anyone encapsulate Maker in a few sentences? He confuses me and I don't want to go and read all the Ultimate Universe material. Maybe I will take a look at Ribic's stuff but I am not so interested in the setting. And my reading piles are big enough as it is.

[Darthkostis]

Can you or anyone encapsulate Maker in a few sentences? He confuses me and I don't want to go and read all the Ultimate Universe material. Maybe I will take a look at Ribic's stuff but I am not so interested in the setting. And my reading piles are big enough as it is.

>Ultimatum happened.
>F4 broke up.
>Reed got angsty.
>Sue made out with Ben.
>Reed got even more angsty.
>Reed decided to advance humanity... and he would have done it if it weren't for those pesky Ultimates and his stupid ex-friends!

[Iron Maiden]

>Ultimatum happened.
>F4 broke up.
>Reed got angsty.
>Sue made out with Ben.
>Reed got even more angsty.
>Reed decided to advance humanity... and he would have done it if it weren't for those pesky Ultimates and his stupid ex-friends!

Does Hickman's Maker have anything to do with the character in the last UFF series? Because he was nothing like him. Sue kind of forced him into having a child together IIRC.

[Darthkostis]

Does Hickman's Maker have anything to do with the character in the last UFF series? Because he was nothing like him. Sue kind of forced him into having a child together IIRC.

Same character, Ultimate Reed. Apparently, after seeing what 616 Reed had (over at Ultimate Cataclysm), Ultimate Reed kinda wanted to redeem himself. But I guess Hickman didn't like that development so he used his "own" version of the character.

[jphamlore]

Does Hickman's Maker have anything to do with the character in the last UFF series? Because he was nothing like him. Sue kind of forced him into having a child together IIRC.

I thought Ultimate Sue's child was with Ultimate Ben Grimm.

[Darthkostis]

I thought Ultimate Sue's child was with Ultimate Ben Grimm.

That's true. Sue told Ben that it was Reed's, but in reality it was his... Yeah, UFF had promise, but the fact that it lasted only 5 messy issues, well...

[Iron Maiden]

That's true. Sue told Ben that it was Reed's, but in reality it was his... Yeah, UFF had promise, but the fact that it lasted only 5 messy issues, well...

That's right I forgot about that part. Didn't Sue have Reed tied up or something in the cliffhanger ending of the next to the last issue? I thought the child might have been Reed's via artificial insemination.

I did like that it finally showed that Victor Van Damme did survive the Zombieverse.

[Darthkostis]

That's right I forgot about that part. Didn't Sue have Reed tied up or something in the cliffhanger ending of the next to the last issue? I thought the child might have been Reed's via artificial insemination.

I did like that it finally showed that Victor Van Damme did survive the Zombieverse.

Yeah, that was a classic case of misdirection.

Van Damme appeared in All-New X-Men as well, towards the end. He had a pretty good showing.

[klefmung]

Can you or anyone encapsulate Maker in a few sentences? He confuses me and I don't want to go and read all the Ultimate Universe material. Maybe I will take a look at Ribic's stuff but I am not so interested in the setting. And my reading piles are big enough as it is.

His main story is 12 issues long and written by Hickman if you wanna check that out. Ultimate Comics: Ultimates 1-12. But basically, a lot of crap happened that made him evil (more than just Sue breaking up with him, contrary to popular criticism) and he goes evil.

First a future Sue using the Kang persona comes back in time and tells Reed he has to do certain things to save the future that seem kinda horrible now. But he trusts her because she's a future Sue, and Reed is a pragmatist. Well, the rest of the heroes proceed to kick his butt and exile him, which makes him really turn bitter. Another reason he was mad was because his Baxter Building research, back when it was a thing, would only get funding if it had direct military application. He then, in turn, builds a bubble where 1000 years pass in a week, and he evolves humanity and builds the most advanced society ever, expands, crushing most of Europe, then blows up Washington DC all in short order. So basically he is a 1000+ year old super intellect that has drifted almost entirely from being a Reed.

[Emcee]

His main story is 12 issues long and written by Hickman if you wanna check that out. Ultimate Comics: Ultimates 1-12. But basically, a lot of crap happened that made him evil (more than just Sue breaking up with him, contrary to popular criticism) and he goes evil.

First a future Sue using the Kang persona comes back in time and tells Reed he has to do certain things to save the future that seem kinda horrible now. But he trusts her because she's a future Sue, and Reed is a pragmatist. Well, the rest of the heroes proceed to kick his butt and exile him, which makes him really turn bitter. Another reason he was mad was because his Baxter Building research, back when it was a thing, would only get funding if it had direct military application. He then, in turn, builds a bubble where 1000 years pass in a week, and he evolves humanity and builds the most advanced society ever, expands, crushing most of Europe, then blows up Washington DC all in short order. So basically he is a 1000+ year old super intellect that has drifted almost entirely from being a Reed.

Good summary.

Just an added blurb: When looking back on the whole "Every boy needs a dad" theme in Hickman's FF run, its important to remember exactly how much of an unsupportive scumbag Maker's father was. That probably didnt helped in the long run as far as growing up and learning how to properly deal with adversity..

[JKtheMac]

Thanks, I think the bit I just don't get is how come he is so old and indeed so young. I know I could read a summary online but the more you know about a character the less satisfactory those kinds of summary are.

[NexusTenebrare]

Same character, Ultimate Reed. Apparently, after seeing what 616 Reed had (over at Ultimate Cataclysm), Ultimate Reed kinda wanted to redeem himself. But I guess Hickman didn't like that development so he used his "own" version of the character.

I didn't like that development anyway. I liked that Ultimate Reed Richards was a villain. Even if he did kill off half of Europe.

[Abe]

I didn't like that development anyway. I liked that Ultimate Reed Richards was a villain. Even if he did kill off half of Europe.

That's what fun with villain in fact ! And I'm European...