Secret Wars 9 *Spoilers*

[craybest]

but if Namor doesn't remember what happened or what he did, it makes what happened to him in SS#1 even worse.

[Abe]

Yep, I think this entire saga works much better if you consider it something to be read from Fantastic Four: Dark Reign through all of Hickman's work to the end of Secret Wars.

Yes !!!

I even do wonder if that was the initial plan... Then some changes could have made to the story - perhaps with Namor's part (but I do to easily meta-reading of Hickman's lines - in this case the few words Namor says seems to me to express some regrets by the author... Anyway I don't know and I'm kinda biased on the subject ). I still wonder also what Future Val built or what made the Celestial go mad by the way.... Mysteries of the life of a big publishing company I guess...

[useridgoeshere]

So the Sue, Franklin and Valeria at the end are Reed's re-creation of his 616 family through Owen and the Doom-created Sue, Franklin and Valeria are gone.

[EmrysM]

I don't think so, I believe only the FF (minus Ben and Johnny), T'challa, Doom, and the SS (for reasons) do.

but if Namor doesn't remember what happened or what he did, it makes what happened to him in SS#1 even worse.

That's the thing though, Namor does* remember. He even says outright in SS#1, something about Spectrum's world being doomed and him just helping it along.

Maybe all those on the life-raft remember? I took that shot of Miles standing looking out over the city as a sign of him remembering.

*or rather, he did. R.I.P.

[Ravin' Ray]

So the Sue, Franklin and Valeria at the end are Reed's re-creation of his 616 family through Owen and the Doom-created Sue, Franklin and Valeria are gone.

Hmm, when Hickman said that Sue, Johnny and the others in Battleworld aren't the 616 ones it could have been a case of hyperbole, or some clever wording on his part with a loophole that allows the originals to be the ones on Battleworld but with Doom suppressing their memories, or something similar. Your guess is as good as mine.

[craybest]

Ah I was saying because people didn't include him in those who remember what happened. If the multiverse was restored, didn't the planents of teh members of the SS should also had been restored? I guess not, but I don't understand why.

[Double 0]

That's the thing though, Namor does* remember. He even says outright in SS#1, something about Spectrum's world being doomed and him just helping it along.

Maybe all those on the life-raft remember? I took that shot of Miles standing looking out over the city as a sign of him remembering.

*or rather, he did. R.I.P.

I'm thinking at least the life-rafters remember. And if not, then those who lasted long enough to see the final fight, Sue and the FF, and those who slipped through the cracks (Squadron Surpreme) remember.

[Ragdoll]

This issue would have been so much more powerful if the ANAD Marvel launch hadn't spoiled 4/5 of the big reveals. I like how Hickman capped his F4 history. Reed/Doom was always Hickman's best character study.

[MindofShadow]

This issue would have been so much more powerful if the ANAD Marvel launch hadn't spoiled 4/5 of the big reveals. .

This is definitely a true statement

[Crimz]

So the Sue, Franklin and Valeria at the end are Reed's re-creation of his 616 family through Owen and the Doom-created Sue, Franklin and Valeria are gone.

Hmm, when Hickman said that Sue, Johnny and the others in Battleworld aren't the 616 ones it could have been a case of hyperbole, or some clever wording on his part with a loophole that allows the originals to be the ones on Battleworld but with Doom suppressing their memories, or something similar. Your guess is as good as mine.

I thought time travel was involved as Sue said that she remembers the ship breaking apart, then Reed saves them. I think the Battleworld versions aren't 616, Battleworld Ben dying makes me think so.

[vitruvian]

So on to some points, non spoilery:

Battleworld: As we know, Battleworld exists in the ANAD Marvel and we see how important it is. Battleworld serves as the initial seed and starting point of everything. This isn't a huge surprise as the nature of Battleworld clearly implied this fate.

Continuity Snarl: A lot has been made of how the Time Runs Out arc that follows the Infinite Avengers and Great Society arc caused a lot of continuity snarl with other things going on. Secret Wars resolves this in the predictable "Infinity Gauntlet" way. I'm guessing if someone gets to sit down with Hickman and Tom B. the explanation is that the main Avengers run happens as printed right up to Infinity. About Infinity things get tougher. I'd imagine that story still happens with some minor modifications. After that Avengers World happens more or less as printed through the first 14 issues while the rest of the Avengers title likely does not. New Avengers simply doesn't happen at all. No spoiler tags here as this is pretty much how the books have to happen for Axis and a lot of the current run to make any sense.

Secret Wars and Avengers: Hickman's Avengers run is clearly the prequel to Secret Wars, but Secret Wars is clearly NOT the ending for the Avengers run. I kept hoping that there'd be an epilogue for his Avengers run but that didn't happen. The finale of Avengers is clearly meant to be their failure and Tony and Steve fighting it out as the world ends. Again, this isn't a spoiler as if the Avengers were going to be a big part of Secret Wars it would have happened by now. It still makes that run annoying. No grand victory for the Avengers. Just failure.

All in all I'm happy with Secret Wars itself, it just further pushes down his Avengers run in my view.

Except if New Avengers doesn't happen (as would be suggested by no Incursions happening from the point T'Challa first encountered them), then there's literally nothing for the Squadron Supreme to be mad at Namor about... at least not the Namor that exists on this new Prime Earth. It's also really unclear how they, and Blue Marvel, and others are even aware that the discontinuity between iterations of the universe/multiverse exists, or that the world was under threat or in a crisis if the Incursions were never seen. I had thought at least some of these issues would be addressed in the finale.

Still, I like the idea of Reed and co... basically the Future Foundation sans Ben and Johnny... being sort of multiversal demiurges as well as explorers.

[vitruvian]

So sue and reed are on a rebuild multiverse vacation (probably connection to yesterday's teaser, since everyone else post SW thinks they are dead)

Things got sorta rewritten I guess and well the ending was a bit unsatisfying.

I don't think anybody's actually said they're dead, just that they're not around.

[Haquim]

Everything lives.

Such constrast with Ultimate End.

[vitruvian]

Reed is directing Owen Reece but I don't think he's a pantheon. That's not what I got out of it.

Of course he isn't... a pantheon is multiple deities. It's primarily Reed, Owen, and Franklin working together, with the rest of the Foundation as helpers.

And it just occurred to me that if Owen were immaterial, that's actually the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost... I see what you did there, Hickman.

[craybest]

sad truth, but if the FF are restoring the multiverse, doesn't that mean that they would also restore the Ultimate universe?