Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 79
  1. #46
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Dead City of R'lyeh
    Posts
    21,006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Just to be clear , I wasn't saying Bruce beats Tony. Merely noting that he has better weapons these days than merely a tank . Likewise Tony's built planet busting Dyson spheres and whatnot . In an all out rumbles style prep fight , Tony wins for sure

    That doesn't change
    A) the spectacular failure of the majority of Tony's busters
    B) the failure of Tony's armours against class 100s when built by himself alone with no external help

    So Bruce with one of his suits these days vs Tony in one of his regular suits ? Bruce wins . This of course , assuming Tony doesn't get prep to make his own suits better . The point being Batman CAN beat him , as he is no longer bringing just a tank to the fight
    Give most people of similar strengths one sided prep and they win,
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arxiros "Arx" Inosaan | Inanna

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,959

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Give most people of similar strengths one sided prep and they win,
    True, but Batman's thing is that he preps for people far stronger than he is. It isn't like Tony has similar strengths to Bruce, blowing past him in several key areas.

    Bruce's prep has some distinct qualities. It let's him go particularly above his weight class by tailoring to a specific enemy. And he's already done the prep, usually before the other person knew there was a fight. (Hence having plans to take out the JLA just lying around, or having sabotaged enemy schemes before they were even executed.)

    Tony has a bit of this too, but ironically his efforts to sabotage his allies either fail (buster armors) or are just dickish overkill (Anti Spider-Man and Captain America programs in his armor) where his base armor should already get the job done.

  3. #48
    Pro Mutant Anarchist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,611

    Default

    I'd say the problem is more that Iron Man writers seem to be quite uncreative when it comes to his contingency plans. While Batman's plans have a lot of psychological, individual stuff to them, Tony's plans always boil down to 'Build a bigger suit'
    His generell feats however put him at a level where it should be no problem to build, say, a Gamma Drainer instead of Hulkbuster armor V.2016.

  4. #49
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Dead City of R'lyeh
    Posts
    21,006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    True, but Batman's thing is that he preps for people far stronger than he is. It isn't like Tony has similar strengths to Bruce, blowing past him in several key areas.

    Bruce's prep has some distinct qualities. It let's him go particularly above his weight class by tailoring to a specific enemy. And he's already done the prep, usually before the other person knew there was a fight. (Hence having plans to take out the JLA just lying around, or having sabotaged enemy schemes before they were even executed.)

    Tony has a bit of this too, but ironically his efforts to sabotage his allies either fail (buster armors) or are just dickish overkill (Anti Spider-Man and Captain America programs in his armor) where his base armor should already get the job done.
    True,

    But I was responding to the comment that if Batman trucked out a suit he doesn't normally wear, and Iron Man doesn't he'll win. Which is one-sided prep. That said, what prevents Tony from hacking the suit ? I mean, is it specifically noted to be as fast as Flash/Superman/etc. Does it have hack-proofery that shuts out Cyborg ?
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arxiros "Arx" Inosaan | Inanna

  5. #50
    BANNED The Dork Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    5,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Give most people of similar strengths one sided prep and they win,
    Iron Man and Batman are not people of "similar strengths "

  6. #51
    BANNED The Dork Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    5,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    True,

    But I was responding to the comment that if Batman trucked out a suit he doesn't normally wear, and Iron Man doesn't he'll win. Which is one-sided prep. That said, what prevents Tony from hacking the suit ? I mean, is it specifically noted to be as fast as Flash/Superman/etc. Does it have hack-proofery that shuts out Cyborg ?
    One sided prep for the weaker character , yes , not people of "similar strengths"

    He didn't fight Cyborg but mentions some sort of EM nerve system against him . The suit is fast enough to carry out one movement faster than the Flash (when Flash is not at top speed )
    Last edited by The Dork Knight; 01-15-2016 at 11:48 AM.

  7. #52
    BANNED The Dork Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    5,329

    Default

    Batman's defences vs Cyborg

    https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress...en-lantern.jpg

    For Flash ( yes the speed needs to activated , still)

    http://comicnewbies.com/2014/11/16/b...-vs-the-flash/

  8. #53
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Dead City of R'lyeh
    Posts
    21,006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Iron Man and Batman are not people of "similar strengths "
    They're both incredibly intelligent with some pretty great tech prowess, not similar indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    One sided prep for the weaker character , yes , not people of "similar strengths"

    He didn't fight Cyborg but mentions some sort of EM nerve system against him . The suit is fast enough to carry out one movement faster than the Flash (when Flash is not at top speed )
    Mm, that's actually pretty neat.

    Well played, Bruce.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arxiros "Arx" Inosaan | Inanna

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,959

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    I'd say the problem is more that Iron Man writers seem to be quite uncreative when it comes to his contingency plans. While Batman's plans have a lot of psychological, individual stuff to them, Tony's plans always boil down to 'Build a bigger suit'
    His generell feats however put him at a level where it should be no problem to build, say, a Gamma Drainer instead of Hulkbuster armor V.2016.
    Sure, and he's actually done stuff like build gamma drainers. But it's not just a matter of writers choosing to be creative, it's that psychology has always been a big part of Batman's character as opposed to tech for Tony. (Why Bruce doesn't use his high end tech more often comes across as some combination of PIS and him psychotic enough to like getting his hands dirty, so DC doesn't change the fundamental feel of street level Batman.)

    To CoR: Batman and Tony just don't make a good comparison, because Tony runs around with so much more fire power on the average day. Luke Cage and the Hulk have shticks, but the discrepancy between the two makes one sided prep irrelevant for Luke. Also, there's something to be said for the difference in what "prep" constitutes here. For Bruce, going back and raiding his cave alone let's him jump exponentially in power rankings. Tony isn't quite the same, because Tony is constantly USING his most advanced technology, pushing it further and further in the field. If you gave Tony a chance to go back and grab anything from his lab, he might get something with niche use for a specific situation, like hacking nanobots to disable an enemy mech or freezing rays to stop a particular alien bacteria or something. But he's not going to exponentially increase in power without an extended period to build a newer, better toy.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,959

    Default

    A better point of comparison would be Bruce vs Reed Richards. Reed goes from "stretchy guy" to "FTL stretchy guy with Celestial killing guns" if given a couple minutes to raid his lab. One sided prep doesn't need to be a month or even a day for him to shoot up like crazy.

  11. #56
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    I'd say the problem is more that Iron Man writers seem to be quite uncreative when it comes to his contingency plans. While Batman's plans have a lot of psychological, individual stuff to them, Tony's plans always boil down to 'Build a bigger suit'
    His generell feats however put him at a level where it should be no problem to build, say, a Gamma Drainer instead of Hulkbuster armor V.2016.
    Actually Stark's plans in his own book have often been creative and even Machiavellian. To the point that his friends have complained about him using them like chess-pieces. It's only when he's in a crossover that suddenly he becomes the guy who has to solve everything with armor.

    I'd say the biggest difference is how they are treated in crossovers, which is what defines both characters in the minds of many readers. In a crossover, Stark is usually there to prove how resourceful one of the star players at Marvel is, typically by building a buster-armor that the star casually defeats. Batman, though, Batman is the star of the DCU, and becomes smarter in crossovers rather than dumber and much more one-dimensional.

  12. #57
    Fantastic Member AnonymousODG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy View Post
    An EMP will result in Batman stomping. Better fight would be against Cap. Tony Stark is intelligent and can build/buy weapons, Bruce Wayne is Intelligent and build/buy weapons but only one has trained themselves to be a weapon.
    An EMP would not necessarily disable Stark's suits:



    It really is a matter of whether or not disabling Stark's suit serves the plot. But they definitely have worked on him in the past too many times to not be a legitimate consideration. Anybody have examples of Batman's EMP tech? I saw someone reference the one he described in his Justice Buster armor. Too bad we didn't get to see what it would actually do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    I'd say the problem is more that Iron Man writers seem to be quite uncreative when it comes to his contingency plans. While Batman's plans have a lot of psychological, individual stuff to them, Tony's plans always boil down to 'Build a bigger suit'
    His generell feats however put him at a level where it should be no problem to build, say, a Gamma Drainer instead of Hulkbuster armor V.2016.
    What about Stark's contingency plans for Time Runs Out? Or the ones that Red Skull pulled out of him for AXIS? Stark basically beat a Galactic Council armada and was manipulated into beating near every major superhero on Earth with those plans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    And even without gear Tony has been shown to manhandle Daredevil in his latest solo.
    Yeah, it's not clear how or why that happened, but it did.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,563

    Default

    Can anyone post some panels of Stark's tactical competence? I'd be interested to look at it. Love that kind of stuff. Thanks.

  14. #59
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
    Can anyone post some panels of Stark's tactical competence? I'd be interested to look at it. Love that kind of stuff. Thanks.
    Panels, no. I'm a complete failure when it comes to scans.

    But for an example of Tony's strategic thinking see the arc when he was on the run from SHIELD/HAMMER when Osborn was in control. Tony had his brain deleting itself while he was fleeing so that, if captured, Osborn couldn't extract the identities of all the known superhumans on Earth. But it was deleting at such a rate that he could retain enough cognitive ability to achieve certain goals as he got dumber, to put certain things in order. And eventually, he was declared clinically dead, at which point, since he was technically still a SHIELD employee, Osborn was obliged to follow his instructions upon his death, which were to refer to his personal physician. A certain Donald Blake MD. AKA Thor. And of course Tony happened to have a safe copy of his brain patterns and memories stored which could later be uploaded back into his brain. Only this copy was taken before Tony had learnt the aforementioned identities (or done any of the unspeakably dickish things he did during Civil War), so that a) Osborn could no longer obtain that information, and b) instant clear conscience for Tony.

    Oh, and while doing these tasks as he got progressively dumber, he'd arranged for progressively older, lower tech suits to be available in specific locations so that his dwindling intellect could cope with them.

    It was pretty freaking awesome.

  15. #60
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    35,637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Panels, no. I'm a complete failure when it comes to scans.

    But for an example of Tony's strategic thinking see the arc when he was on the run from SHIELD/HAMMER when Osborn was in control. Tony had his brain deleting itself while he was fleeing so that, if captured, Osborn couldn't extract the identities of all the known superhumans on Earth. But it was deleting at such a rate that he could retain enough cognitive ability to achieve certain goals as he got dumber, to put certain things in order. And eventually, he was declared clinically dead, at which point, since he was technically still a SHIELD employee, Osborn was obliged to follow his instructions upon his death, which were to refer to his personal physician. A certain Donald Blake MD. AKA Thor. And of course Tony happened to have a safe copy of his brain patterns and memories stored which could later be uploaded back into his brain. Only this copy was taken before Tony had learnt the aforementioned identities (or done any of the unspeakably dickish things he did during Civil War), so that a) Osborn could no longer obtain that information, and b) instant clear conscience for Tony.

    Oh, and while doing these tasks as he got progressively dumber, he'd arranged for progressively older, lower tech suits to be available in specific locations so that his dwindling intellect could cope with them.

    It was pretty freaking awesome.
    so he purposefully turned himself into a dumbass and planned around it?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •