Jubilation Lee: Jubilee Appreciation 2018

[Starleafgirl]

Is this true?

https://www.nerdist.com/2015/01/marv...f-secret-wars/

If it is... I hope she will be in this new universe!!!

We already know she'll be a part of the Westchester "country" of Battleworld via the title "X-Men '92," however she'll have her classic powers back again.

We've heard that Battleworld is replacing all of Earth-616, Ultimate Universe, etc., which may mean the end of Vampire Jubilee if X-Men '92 Jubilee is the only Jubilee left when worlds/universes collide.

A selfish desire on my part is to then see her join a new Generation X ongoing... ;P

[Beezzi]

Wait? Did someone say reboot? Oh right...that was me months ago on this forum...

Anywhoo...

I'm not getting great vibes from this - the only characters that do well when a reboot happens are the frontline talent. I love Jubes, but I don't think Marvel's that big on her. She doesn't appeal to the current, younger generation of X-fans - they're more into...actually I don't know what current fans are into - I just can't image what they see in characters like Tempus or Triage - they're just walking vessels for their powers, plot-devices with legs. (Same goes for all the GenXers)

Woodsey knew this was coming, which is why he wasn't concerned with what would happen to Shogo under a new writer - he knew the kid wouldn't be around after Secret Wars.

I will tell you all one thing. If Marvel reboots her back to being a teenager, I'm going to be very, very...angry...

My own personal view is that once a character gets "rebooted", they cease to be the person they were. People are the things that happen to them in life. Change those experiences and you fundamentally change who they are. Any new Jubes might wear a yellow coat and shoot sparks, but she won't be Jubilation Lee.

[berserkerclaw]

I hope jubilee isn't replaced. I like her old powers but, I'd prefer after secret wars that our jubes is fine

[Starleafgirl]

The really sad part about this is that there's almost no chance that Shogo will survive this ordeal. And it's possible that Jubilee will have no idea she used to have a kid. On the up side, she also won't remember Logan died... because he'll be alive again.

Technically, she's still a teen in our current Marvel Universe. Vampirism stopped her aging, so even though she's 17 (or older, by now), she's still stuck at 16.

But mentally, she's matured some, thanks to motherhood and all that.

When Axel Alonso pointed to the "Renew Your Vows" Spider-Man and said "This is your Spider-Man," I was thrilled. But the thought of him pointing at "X-Men '92" and saying "This is your Jubilee"... Not great. :x

Well, who knows, maybe all the characters who survive will remember their Earth-616 pasts. But that won't change the fact that they're probably going to use this opportunity to magically erase Shogo... Maybe they'll age him up like they did Baby Hope. That would be something, I guess.

[berserkerclaw]

Well. We don't know the ending to secret wars. All we know is battle world is created. So multiple alternate earth's existing together. And we know ultimate merges with 616. But I really doubt that characters will merge. And I doubt that histories, will change, shogo isn't going anywhere. This isn't a reboot. The world changed the characters wont

[Starleafgirl]

Well. We don't know the ending to secret wars. All we know is battle world is created. So multiple alternate earth's existing together. And we know ultimate merges with 616. But I really doubt that characters will merge. And I doubt that histories, will change, shogo isn't going anywhere. This isn't a reboot. The world changed the characters wont

They've already said that when the final incursion happens, it'll be like two pizzas smashing together (yes, sorry, it's Axel Alonso's metaphor, you're going to be hearing a lot about pizza until Secret Wars is over). Axel said that some toppings will be combined, some will drop off. I believe that statement applies not only to locations but to characters as well. So some characters are going away.

[Beezzi]

Hopefully we won't get '92 Jubes! I love TAS, but most people never watched past the first season. First season Jubilee is so not on. Later we see bits and pieces of the comic Jubes coming through, but Marvel will default to the chilli cheese fries chomping mallrat.

On a more positive note:

We might get lucky if they are merging characters. Jubes - from what I remember - only ever had one appearance in the Unnecessary Universe (Miles is the best thing to ever come out of it), as part of Alpha Flight - she's was a Dazzler fangirl. Jubes didn't get a lot of page time. So if they go for a merge, the writers might be forced to lean on 616 Jubes for background and she'll pretty much stay the same. (BTW if they do re-power her and get rid of the vamp thing - they are basically flipping Woodsey the bird.)

OR

They'll go with the bubble-brained UU version and we're back to square one...damn...Where did this whole idea that she was a dummy start? Neither Hama (Wolverine era Larry), Claremont or Lobdell ever wrote her as anything but a capable rebel!

As for Shogo? We've got your back little bro - you convey more personality in one syllable, then all of Bendis' bland high school stereotypes.

[Ambaryerno]

Hopefully we won't get '92 Jubes! I love TAS, but most people never watched past the first season. First season Jubilee is so not on. Later we see bits and pieces of the comic Jubes coming through, but Marvel will default to the chilli cheese fries chomping mallrat.

On a more positive note:

We might get lucky if they are merging characters. Jubes - from what I remember - only ever had one appearance in the Unnecessary Universe (Miles is the best thing to ever come out of it), as part of Alpha Flight - she's was a Dazzler fangirl. Jubes didn't get a lot of page time. So if they go for a merge, the writers might be forced to lean on 616 Jubes for background and she'll pretty much stay the same. (BTW if they do re-power her and get rid of the vamp thing - they are basically flipping Woodsey the bird.)

OR

They'll go with the bubble-brained UU version and we're back to square one...damn...Where did this whole idea that she was a dummy start? Neither Hama (Wolverine era Larry), Claremont or Lobdell ever wrote her as anything but a capable rebel!

As for Shogo? We've got your back little bro - you convey more personality in one syllable, then all of Bendis' bland high school stereotypes.

If they're combining characters, keep 616 Jubes' personality and memories but "merge" her with another iteration to give her her damn powers back already.

[Starleafgirl]

(BTW if they do re-power her and get rid of the vamp thing - they are basically flipping Woodsey the bird.)

I don't see where you're getting that.

Brian Wood isn't responsible for turning Jubilee into a vampire. Furthermore, he's the only (or at least the first?) writer to write her as anything other than a vampire stereotype since she became a vampire. In fact, he's one of the few writers to pretty much ignore the vampirism aspect and treat her as "Jubilee with superpowers."

[Beezzi]

I don't see where you're getting that.

Brian Wood isn't responsible for turning Jubilee into a vampire. Furthermore, he's the only (or at least the first?) writer to write her as anything other than a vampire stereotype since she became a vampire. In fact, he's one of the few writers to pretty much ignore the vampirism aspect and treat her as "Jubilee with superpowers."

You misunderstood me - we're actually kinda talking about the same thing - I should've explained it better, instead of just being flippant.

I meant that Woodsey wanted to give her back her powers and maybe turn her mutant again, but Marvel's editors told him it was essential and vital for her character to stay powerless and in vamp form.

Now less than a year after he's gone, she might be getting her powers back? With no real backstory or build up? Just Poof and she magically a mutant again? Kinda how she lost them in the first place. One day she was a mutant - then there's decimation and she's no longer a mutant. Few years later -> No-powers vamp -> Battlefield Bogus -> Mutant again.

Turns out the whole vamp, no-powers thing was never really as important as Marvel claimed. If I were Woods, I'd have a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

(Btw the Woodsey thing is just an old left-over from his Gen-X days. It's a very, very old message board thang. That's what we use to affectionately call him. You guys don't want to know what we called Hama or Ellis after Ev's death...those were not affectionate...I tend to forget it can be interpreted the wrong way - I didn't mind Wood's spell on X-Men, like his time on Gen-X, it had some great character beats, but he's just not an action, oriented X-writer. Kinda like Claremont or Lobdell, they like a lot of dialogue and character development, but that doesn't gel well with the insanely low page count these days. )

[berserkerclaw]

They've already said that when the final incursion happens, it'll be like two pizzas smashing together (yes, sorry, it's Axel Alonso's metaphor, you're going to be hearing a lot about pizza until Secret Wars is over). Axel said that some toppings will be combined, some will drop off. I believe that statement applies not only to locations but to characters as well. So some characters are going away.

I forgot about that. Ok well I hope for the X-Men sake that no one's changed too much or goes away. I love these characters to much. Rest if Marvel go ahead..except for Winter Soldier and Spider-man lol

[Jubilee]

Honestly, I hope Shogo goes away.
Making her a teen mom was a stupid idea to begin with, and aside from the fact that babies make people go "awww" it really added nothing to her character.
All she did was cry and obsess over him being taken away from her. I always saw Jubilee as being the type that would be hell-bent on finding a good, safe home for a child that she rescued; since she knows all too well what it's like to be an orphan. Having her be like "Eventhough I'm just adjusting to being a vampire, I'm gonna adopt a kid! And raise him with the X-Men, because that's not dangerous at all! lol" seemed way too random.
So, yeah. I know many here love Shogo for his cuteness, but I'd have rather seen Wood actually follow up on just what Jubilee was doing with The Forgiven, instead of completely ignoring her story and throwing a baby at her.

As for post Secret Wars...
I'm hoping Jubilee stays at her current 17-19 age, and either remains a vampire and gets her fireworks back; or simply reverts to being a mutant. Thus far, vampirism on its own is incredibly dull and writers to nothing more than make her slash stuff while ignoring most of her other abilities.
I was Jubilee to be treated like Kitty Pryde was when she started to get older. It's time for Jubilee to get some mature storylines where she can actually get some quality character development and screentime, and do more than hang out as "the other member" or "the youngster" of a team.

But, this is Marvel we're talking about, so.... They'll either forget about her completely and 616 Jubes will remain the same, or they'll revert her back to the 15-year old fireworks version. Ugh..

[Beezzi]

Honestly, I hope Shogo goes away.
Making her a teen mom was a stupid idea to begin with, and aside from the fact that babies make people go "awww" it really added nothing to her character.
All she did was cry and obsess over him being taken away from her. I always saw Jubilee as being the type that would be hell-bent on finding a good, safe home for a child that she rescued; since she knows all too well what it's like to be an orphan. Having her be like "Eventhough I'm just adjusting to being a vampire, I'm gonna adopt a kid! And raise him with the X-Men, because that's not dangerous at all! lol" seemed way too random.
So, yeah. I know many here love Shogo for his cuteness, but I'd have rather seen Wood actually follow up on just what Jubilee was doing with The Forgiven, instead of completely ignoring her story and throwing a baby at her.

As for post Secret Wars...
I'm hoping Jubilee stays at her current 17-19 age, and either remains a vampire and gets her fireworks back; or simply reverts to being a mutant. Thus far, vampirism on its own is incredibly dull and writers to nothing more than make her slash stuff while ignoring most of her other abilities.
I was Jubilee to be treated like Kitty Pryde was when she started to get older. It's time for Jubilee to get some mature storylines where she can actually get some quality character development and screentime, and do more than hang out as "the other member" or "the youngster" of a team.

But, this is Marvel we're talking about, so.... They'll either forget about her completely and 616 Jubes will remain the same, or they'll revert her back to the 15-year old fireworks version. Ugh..

Shogo is cute, but that's not why I like the idea of him.

Kids force people to grow up and see the world in totally different light. You want Jubes to age and mature? Shogo is a good way to go about it. Being a mother isn't easy, and being a vampire mother is even harder. Rather than getting rid of Shogo, I'd prefer writers use their relationship as a way to explore how she deals with that responsibility.

Taking in Shogo is a totally Jubilee move. She known for making big waves, sometimes thinking with her heart first. She's a firecracker in power and in nature. It's always been the main difference, for me personally, between Kitty and her. Both are bright, independent women, but one is cautious and analytical and the other is all spark and vinegar. A times there's crossover, since they were trained by the same people, but in essence they are as opposed as night and day. Which is why they get along better now - as people age they're able to appreciate the things in others that they might not excel at.

I know some fans feel Shogo is holding her back, but that's not his fault - rather blame uninspired writing and the Marvel editors. The Wolverine Annual was awesome, because of her connection to the baby. We saw her go full mommy wolf! Taking Shogo away isn't going to get Jubes anymore limelight.

Furthermore teenage mothers don't have a lot of positive role models in the media today and Jubes can be that for them.

[Starleafgirl]

You misunderstood me - we're actually kinda talking about the same thing - I should've explained it better, instead of just being flippant.

I meant that Woodsey wanted to give her back her powers and maybe turn her mutant again, but Marvel's editors told him it was essential and vital for her character to stay powerless and in vamp form.

Now less than a year after he's gone, she might be getting her powers back? With no real backstory or build up? Just Poof and she magically a mutant again? Kinda how she lost them in the first place. One day she was a mutant - then there's decimation and she's no longer a mutant. Few years later -> No-powers vamp -> Battlefield Bogus -> Mutant again.

Turns out the whole vamp, no-powers thing was never really as important as Marvel claimed. If I were Woods, I'd have a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

Hmm, wait, I do remember something like that, now. Good point about them deciding to repower her (at the very least, X-Men '92 version of her) after forcing a non-mutant Jubes on Brian Wood, lol.

Brian Wood strikes me as the type of writer who likes to do his own thing without the creative restrictions of something like Marvel. Too bad he wasn't allowed to repower Jubilee, as her vampire powers haven't been put to great use most of the time in most books.

I think her vampire powers are interesting (super strength, turn to mist, claws, etc.) but just haven't been used to their full potential.

(Btw the Woodsey thing is just an old left-over from his Gen-X days. It's a very, very old message board thang. That's what we use to affectionately call him. You guys don't want to know what we called Hama or Ellis after Ev's death...those were not affectionate...I tend to forget it can be interpreted the wrong way - I didn't mind Wood's spell on X-Men, like his time on Gen-X, it had some great character beats, but he's just not an action, oriented X-writer. Kinda like Claremont or Lobdell, they like a lot of dialogue and character development, but that doesn't gel well with the insanely low page count these days. )

Ahhh, okay, sorry for the misunderstanding, then. I wish I'd been on Gen X boards back then! I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't appreciate what Hama and Ellis did, lol.

As a side note, books definitely need to get thicker or they need to price-drop that shiz.

Shogo is cute, but that's not why I like the idea of him.

Kids force people to grow up and see the world in totally different light. You want Jubes to age and mature? Shogo is a good way to go about it. Being a mother isn't easy, and being a vampire mother is even harder. Rather than getting rid of Shogo, I'd prefer writers use their relationship as a way to explore how she deals with that responsibility.

+ etc.

Furthermore teenage mothers don't have a lot of positive role models in the media today and Jubes can be that for them.

Good points! I agree with you.

[RLAAMJR.]

I love Jubilee taking care of Shogo. They're so cute together.