Hickman & Brevoort Discuss "Secret Wars'" End & Ushering in the New Marvel Universe

[Iron Maiden]

That numbering system is alive and well in the Spider-titles such as Spider-Gwen and Web Warriors. Actual published on paper comics override anything said by editorial in online interviews - after all, if they truly meant it, those comics would not have been published with those Earth-numbers in them.

Someone posted in another thread that on his Tumblr Q&A that Tom B. says those comics are wrong. I'm wondering if those numbers will be removed in future editions

[primetime21]

This event left more questions than answers and just dragged on too long. Yet Brevoort wants to talk about 616 vs Prime. For instance... How about explaining what the hell happened that Reed and his family in being better than Doom at playing God, now allows a poisonous cloud to float around the earth killing and sterilizing mutants. (might as well call it the Hitler cloud) It didn't really wrap up anything but more or less just shoehorn certain things in in hopes that people will just turn a blind a eye and "just enjoy the story, it doesn't have to be logical or make any kind of sense". And the 8 month gap stuff is just laziness on the part of the editors and writers. How many times do they plan to keep going to that well? It just seems like a way to tell event stories and not have them have any repercussions, just on to the next event. It's like actual books don't matter anymore a d all they want to do are events that happen 8 months earlier or later. How can people be satisfied with this stuff?

[Loki]

I'm not. Never liked the 616 designation and I bet 99 percent of the readers don't even know how it started in back when there were Marvel UK comics. Alan Moore and Alan Davis were going to use 666 but used 616 instead.

I'm afraid you are among the 99% who don't know then, as (a) Alan Davis wasn't involved in coming up with the number (he might have been doing the art, but whether you believe it was Thorpe or Moore who came up with the term, Davis has made it clear he wasn't involved in the number choice), and (b) Moore never thought about using 666. 616 was a random choice on his part, nothing to do with any version of the Number of the Beast.

Another writer (David Thorpe) has also ben credited with starting it but he wanted to use 666 because he hated superhero comics.

Brevoort reported that Davis said Thorpe came up with the number to signify his hatred of superhero comics. But since the number didn't get used until more than a year after Thorpe left the comic, while Thorpe (who did use a reality designator for another reality) picked one that was alphanumeric, not simply numeric, I'm inclined to believe Moore's recollection is the more accurate.

[Loki]

If this is an all new universe, why are mutants still being subjected to the Terrigenesis? If all this was created in Reed's image, why would he recreate the cloud and make it more deadly than before?

Exactly. This is still 616, just recreated and with a few amendments. When Thanos wiped half the universe's population from existence using the Infinity Gauntlet, and then the Gauntlet was used to recreate them, nobody said "hey, really these are just new versions who just happen to look a lot like the dead people" - this is larger scale, but no different really.

Why not call this universe the 616? Maybe because there aren't currently any other universes? Calling it the 616 wouldn't make any sense at all.

If every road in the USA was suddenly demolished, but then someone magically began to recreate them exactly as they were before, but starting with Route 66, would people say "No, hey, that's not Route 66 because there are no smaller numbered routes any more" or would they say "It's identical to Route 66, and in the same location, going to the same places. Everyone knew it as Route 66, and we know all the other Routes will be reinstated soon, so the name might not might make numerical sense right this second, but it will soon enough, so let's just keep calling it Route 66."

[stillanerd]

Miles didn't hug his mom with "vague impulse." It was obvious he went from deeply quizzical at hearing here voice to being really excited that it was actually her. He then rushes to the window to see Ganke and his friends. I read that as he knows about his old universe...

This was reinforced in secret wars #9 because he wasn't integrated into the prime universe by reed... it was done by Molecule Man with an obvious wink-and-nod. It's not that she wasn't killed, Molecule Man restored her as a thanks for Miles being the only person to bring food. The extent of integration of his surrounding characters is still in question, but it's safe to assume Miles remembers the Ultimate Universe and battleworld. So everything about how/why he became Spiderman still stands.

With larger events of 616 still more or less being real, that means Peter possibly remembers the events of SPIDERMEN as well, which is why it's believable that Secret Wars concludes with him already in mentor role to Miles. (And even if Peter doesn’t remember Battleworld, Miles' story would be plausible due to the recent multierse spanning Spider event that obviously happened if Web Warriors is going to work) Miles interactions in guests spots in other books also hints at him knowing that this New York is new to him.

Miles history largely carries over (in a similar fashion to Rachel Grey)... the integration of his supporting cast is actually the only issue unresolved

Except, when Miles' mom asks him "What?" Miles' response is "I-I don't know," and then hugs her. That's what I mean when I said what he did was a vague impulse. In other words, he's hugging his mom because he's overjoyed to see her, but he doesn't remember why. Because on this new "Prime Earth," which now includes elements from the Ultimate Universe alongside Earth-616, Miles mom was never killed by Venom.

And yes, I know it was the Molecule Man doing a favor for Miles since Miles was the only person who gave the Molecule Man something to eat. But given the way everyone is reacting, including Miles, no one seems have any recollection of what occurred during Secret Wars, except for Black Panther, Doom, Reed, and the Molecule Man.

[Moriarty]

Well I can say I'm passionate about it.

me too. i wish Marvel would just be honest about things instead of giving us spin. we don't have a Fantastic Four ongoing because of movie rights. you'd think they would at least give us a Future Foundation book or something.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Except, when Miles' mom asks him "What?" Miles' response is "I-I don't know," and then hugs her. That's what I mean when I said what he did was a vague impulse. In other words, he's hugging his mom because he's overjoyed to see her, but he doesn't remember why. Because on this new "Prime Earth," which now includes elements from the Ultimate Universe alongside Earth-616, Miles mom was never killed by Venom.

And yes, I know it was the Molecule Man doing a favor for Miles since Miles was the only person who gave the Molecule Man something to eat. But given the way everyone is reacting, including Miles, no one seems have any recollection of what occurred during Secret Wars, except for Black Panther, Doom, Reed, and the Molecule Man.

Yeah and to add to that, would someone who knew that their mom and died and then randomly become resurrected again just shake it off the way he did and go on to hang out with his friends? Like, I think his history from the Ultimate Universe still happened since Maker still acknowledges it, but as you said, I don't think Miles has anymore memories of it.

[stillanerd]

Yeah and to add to that, would someone who knew that their mom and died and then randomly become resurrected again just shake it off the way he did and go on to hang out with his friends? Like, I think his history from the Ultimate Universe still happened since Maker still acknowledges it, but as you said, I don't think Miles has anymore memories of it.

Right. And it also seems as though the Maker (who was literally sliced and diced by the Molecule Man in Secret Wars #9) is in the same category as Old Man Logan, The Maestro, The Regent, Captain America 2099, Singularity (maybe), etc. in which they are survivors of Battleworld and universes which may or may no longer exist.

[Kurolegacy]

This event left more questions than answers and just dragged on too long. Yet Brevoort wants to talk about 616 vs Prime. For instance... How about explaining what the hell happened that Reed and his family in being better than Doom at playing God, now allows a poisonous cloud to float around the earth killing and sterilizing mutants. (might as well call it the Hitler cloud) It didn't really wrap up anything but more or less just shoehorn certain things in in hopes that people will just turn a blind a eye and "just enjoy the story, it doesn't have to be logical or make any kind of sense". And the 8 month gap stuff is just laziness on the part of the editors and writers. How many times do they plan to keep going to that well? It just seems like a way to tell event stories and not have them have any repercussions, just on to the next event. It's like actual books don't matter anymore a d all they want to do are events that happen 8 months earlier or later. How can people be satisfied with this stuff?

Honestly they got a bit too lazy in the lead up the Secret Wars, Secret Wars and post-Secret Wars by skipping around so much. I mean 8 months of story were lost before and after Secret Wars and during the event they skipped weeks worth of story at a crucial point having nothing fill in what happened. We still have no idea where Peter Parker, the Reeds or most of the Cabal ended up or how Carol ended up in the state she was in while with Sinister much less how the group got back together without being caught crossing the borders. They had plenty of tie-ins. The least they coulda done was devote some to that much if the main book wasn't going to.

And for the story being called Secret Wars, we seemed to spend most of the time on talking and little on the actual action going on. The cover of issue 1 had more going on for it than most of the event. Would it have killed them to at least show us the heroes the raft survivors had gathered going up against Doom's forces?

[BMartini]

I think that the FF will return in the pages of the Ultimates. It's inevitable that these two will have to meet down the line.

Thats exactly what I'm hoping for as well

[Centipede Damascus]

I think Marvel Editorial is fooling themselves if they think people are going to stop calling the Marvel Universe 616.

Honestly, "Prime Earth" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It smacks of DC's ridiculous multiverse reboots and retcons.

[Iron Maiden]

I think Marvel Editorial is fooling themselves if they think people are going to stop calling the Marvel Universe 616.

Honestly, "Prime Earth" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It smacks of DC's ridiculous multiverse reboots and retcons.

Not to me. The 616 designation never originated with Marvel per se. It's origin came from the Marvel UK line that existed years ago. And since the writer who thought it up was making a kind of insult I'd rather it go away permanently. I As far as I'm concerned, the Marvel Universe created by Stan and Jack always has been and now always shall be Marvel Prime.

[Sighphi]

Someone posted in another thread that on his Tumblr Q&A that Tom B. says those comics are wrong. I'm wondering if those numbers will be removed in future editions

I love how no one actually knows the Marvel continuity.
Only the high level editors.
Readers and even the writers are all lost.

[Iron Maiden]

I love how no one actually knows the Marvel continuity.
Only the high level editors.
Readers and even the writers are all lost.

They may not have been taking into account the conclusion to Secret Wars. Tom B is not the editor of that line and it was communicated back to them that the numbers will mean nothing.

[cyclops1983]

What happened to the Infinity Stones (Gems) we were supposed to receive with our copy of Secret Wars #8? That would've been a great tie-in item