She Has No head: Revisiting "No, It's Not Equal"

[CBR News]

Kelly Thompson revisits a 2012 column which broke down the ways women are not given equal visual presentation in comics. Has anything changed?


Full article here.

[JediMindTrick]

I agree that Marvel has made some significant improvements with Captain Marvel and Psylocke. Gamora as well as she no longer sports a thong suit that covers virtually nothing.

[Pinsir]

Marvel really has changed the most, but both companies are better.

[ed2962]

I'm always amused that the cover to the X-rated parody of Birds Of Prey is less suggestive that some of the real cover book covers.

[ed2962]

Marvel really has changed the most, but both companies are better.

Change is more noticeable with Marvel cuz at the time of the DC nu52 they were actually kind of behind in terms of representation in lead titles. Setting quality aside, DC had a handful female led titles, a few led by black males, and one LGBT led title. I hope I'm not getting my dates wrong, but Marvel had one black male lead and one female lead and no gay leads. And while I think Marvel was as bad with the boob-tacular art, they didn't have the PR disaster that DC had with Kori/Selena.

But yes, I think both companies are trying a little harder now...

[ScottSummers]

Interestingly, I don't see many of these observations holding up between the late 1960s to mid late 1980s because much of the comics code neutered them from really showing sexuality in a meaningful way. Look at, for example Storm's Punk, Rogues tunics, Jean's full body suits. And Romita drew much womanier (or not stick thin) women, and more variation. Look at Kitty who he drew legitimately like a 20 year old, compared to Storm. Many of the women wore conservative outfits for a while. Of course it was misogynistic in a different way. But the visuals just were not there.

But then the 1990s come along and there's a huge latitude given to what comics can show because the audience aged up. It went from mostly 10 year old, to mostly 15-24 year olds. Horny puberty teenagers, basically.

I think a lot of cynicism too affects it. People want shocking. I think in a way that might not be that different. Every era probably only has a few good runs and graphic novels that depict people in a realistic and relatable fashion. I think one issue with this article is maybe the expectation is most fiction will be cliché, stereotype and shock-value only entertainment pushed for a quick buck. If you really look at comics they always go back to that one really great idea they had, a lot. Perhaps even the having hundreds of titles cause people to hire poor quality writers.

But the comic code did oddly prevent some of what's being discussed in the article.

[ed2962]

Interestingly, I don't see many of these observations holding up between the late 1960s to mid late 1980s because much of the comics code neutered them from really showing sexuality in a meaningful way. Look at, for example Storm's Punk, Rogues tunics, Jean's full body suits. And Romita drew much womanier (or not stick thin) women, and more variation. Look at Kitty who he drew legitimately like a 20 year old, compared to Storm. Many of the women wore conservative outfits for a while. Of course it was misogynistic in a different way. But the visuals just were not there.

But then the 1990s come along and there's a huge latitude given to what comics can show because the audience aged up. It went from mostly 10 year old, to mostly 15-24 year olds. Horny puberty teenagers, basically.

I think a lot of cynicism too affects it. People want shocking. I think in a way that might not be that different. Every era probably only has a few good runs and graphic novels that depict people in a realistic and relatable fashion. I think one issue with this article is maybe the expectation is most fiction will be cliché, stereotype and shock-value only entertainment pushed for a quick buck. If you really look at comics they always go back to that one really great idea they had, a lot. Perhaps even the having hundreds of titles cause people to hire poor quality writers.

But the comic code did oddly prevent some of what's being discussed in the article.

This is a valid point. Sex appeal had always been a part of comics, but with the comics code they were forced to keep it tasteful.

[Lax]

Sexism in videogames. Different medium similar top.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmN2HZ0qGI8

Heh.

Enjoy it while it lasts fellas, they're coming for you. lol.

[Endless_Legend]

Heh.

Enjoy it while it lasts fellas, they're coming for you. lol.

I can't stand the phrase "White Knight". I've seen both MRA's and feminists use it to silence men who might otherwise be equality-allies into silence. It's a nasty phrase and has no place in honest, real discussion.

[Lax]

I can't stand the phrase "White Knight". I've seen both MRA's and feminists use it to silence men who might otherwise be equality-allies into silence. It's a nasty phrase and has no place in honest, real discussion.

It goes both ways, guys who love their slice of cheesecake are "misogynist" and likewise shamed into silence.

No one is innocent, words become little more than weapons on an intellectual battlefield.

[Mikekerr3]

It goes both ways, guys who love their slice of cheesecake are "misogynist" and likewise shamed into silence.

No one is innocent, words become little more than weapons on an intellectual battlefield.

They have always been weapons on an intellectual battlefield, Do you think "Cheesecake" is a value neutral term?
Your objection seems to be that the ones who have long received attacks and slights are calling people on it now.

[Alan2099]

Just to throw it out there...what if there's a guy who saw Aquaman on Smallville or JLU cartoon and thought, "Oh, that guy's kinda interesting. Maybe I'll go to one of those comic book stores and find out what these superheroes are all about," and every third JLA/Aquaman cover looked like this



That guy might go, "Oh, actual comic books aren't for guys. They're for horny folks who like semi-porny men."

Maybe that's why Namor has always had such trouble holding down a series.

[Mbast1]

Your objection seems to be that the ones who have long received attacks and slights are calling people on it now.

That's the case, IMO, on a lot of this. Ever see someone called a racist for pointing out that someone else is being racist. If you haven't, give it time...

[Pól Rua]

Something that i never understood is why Hulk never used a shirt that was as stretchy as his pants ?, or why cyclops has the muscles of the same size that spider-man, given that he doesnt have super-strength ?.

Because it's a comic book and it's not real.

They really kind of are soldiers, though. Or a kind of cop. They go into combat regularly, regardless. They should dress like it.

Nope. They're Superheroes, in a visual medium. In a genre largely aimed at children.
They should be, for the most part, designed with an eye for what's colourful and exciting. Certainly, some should got for a more tactical motif if that's the vibe the character's going for, but in the end, they're fictional people with magical powers who have adventures. And hell, the superhero genre draws from such a wide range of influences from science fiction to mythology, crime, fantasy... why place artificial restrictions on them?
The original superhero outfits were based on those of circus performers, because they highlighted colour, adventure and excitement (plus, they were easy to draw). I see no problem with characters whose looks are based on military uniforms, who look like horror movie monsters, futuristic warriors, professional wrestlers, weird aliens or monsters, characters from history or fantasy... it should all be open.
Practicality can be a concern, of course, but it shouldn't be the ONLY concern.

Yea, that works for some but not for me. For me when a character does something in title A then it is the same character in title B. There is no universe jump across titles, the Tigra who was useless when assaulted by the Hood is the same Tigra who was in Avengers Academy. Same person. I wasn't too happy with her anyway given her actions in cw and was rather amused at the way Tony Stark tossed her aside, but I expected more from her than screaming. Then again putting her and Quicksilver in charge of a bunch of kids after what Quicksilver did to his sister... Poor kids.
Now Bendis has set his sights on destroying Dazzler. Not something I'm looking forward to.

The thing is...

None of these things happened. They're ALL fiction. You can pick and choose which ones you want to be 'real'. For some people, they can't do that, and it's sad, because you end up getting really upset over things that... you know, aren't real. Just ignore them and go about your day. You'll feel much better for it.

[Endless_Legend]

Nope. They're Superheroes, in a visual medium. In a genre largely aimed at children.

Wrong. We've already discussed this at great length. The genre is not largely aimed at children. All the hypersexualized and hyperviolent imagery is testament to that. (unless you somehow think that is child-appropriate).

The fact that both DC and Marvel specifically have seperate comic lines for children should also have clued you in to this.