The Sentry vs. Goku

[Hazard]

I already proved those shock waves were not universe level,

I'm not sure what definition you are using for universal level, but it's a thing they would have destroyed everything eventually.

Goku was not in the god form and there were no shock waves,

All this happens after Beerus has decided to start using his ability to nullify energy so it really doesn't mean anything other than Beerus using the ability he just showed he had.

Even before losing his God form, Goku and Beerus don't produce anymore shockwaves after Beerus shows off his power to nullify energy despite both of them using more power than before.

it's very clearly a god thing, not necessarily a power thing.

It's directly shown to be related to their power to the point of being cancelled by putting out an equal force.

Edit: Also, post ritual, even base Goku has God Ki. So the form really doesn't mean much. He's still using God Ki.

[rhyvurg]

And by looking at the actual events of the show, we can see that the shock waves were demonstrably not universal. And while Bills cancelled out the energy of the colliding ki attacks, there is no evidence he did anything similar as the fight continued, nor did Goku do whatever he did to stop making shock waves from punching.

[Hazard]

And by looking at the actual events of the show, we can see that the shock waves were demonstrably not universal

Again, what definition are you using here, since it was a given by everyone that those shockwaves were going to destroy everything.

And while Bills cancelled out the energy of the colliding ki attacks, there is no evidence he did anything similar as the fight continued, nor did Goku do whatever he did to stop making shock waves from punching.

Then your argument doesn't work since two so-called divine beings fighting did not produce the shockwaves.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Lol. Sounds like all kind of hijinxs are happening in super. Not interested in watching...sounds like God KI is weird like power cosmic in generating wonky effects. Bet god KI beats buus magic as well...

[rhyvurg]

Again, what definition are you using here, since it was a given by everyone that those shockwaves were going to destroy everything.

The definition of, the third shock wave passed over things and did not destroy them.

Then your argument doesn't work since two so-called divine beings fighting did not produce the shockwaves.

Yes, because neither of them used Goku's "energy cancelling" hijinks nor did Bills cancel out the energy like he did with the ki attacks.

[Hazard]

The definition of, the third shock wave passed over things and did not destroy them.

Because they grow stronger as they get further from the origin point and Goku had been trying to nullify them since early on.

Yes, because neither of them used Goku's "energy cancelling" hijinks nor did Bills cancel out the energy like he did with the ki attacks.

So you admit your theory doesn't work then?

[rhyvurg]

Because they grow stronger as they get further from the origin point and Goku had been trying to nullify them since early on.

Exactly, and the third wave did absolutely nothing to anything near it's point of origin, not even glass or puny humans. Which means it would have to travel a huge distance to be able to destroy something like a planet, much less a star. Meaning it's not universal, because it would leave a lot behind.

So you admit your theory doesn't work then?

Just what about that contradicts my theory?

[Hazard]

Exactly, and the third wave did absolutely nothing to anything near it's point of origin, not even glass or puny humans. Which means it would have to travel a huge distance to be able to destroy something like a planet, much less a star. Meaning it's not universal, because it would leave a lot behind.

Because Goku nullified the third wave entirely.

Then the next one created a super high density energy instead that Beerus nullified. Old Kai outright notes the third clash isn't over.

Just what about that contradicts my theory?

According to you, the shockwaves are directly tied to two god people fighting. Two god people fighting did not create shockwaves during the entire first part of the fight between SSJGod and Beerus nor did they create them after Beerus and SSJGod Goku fought post Beerus using his nullification ability.

The problem with your argument is that you take everything shown in the anime and throw it away in favor of a completely new explanation that has never been mentioned.

[abmccray]

An explanation for the wonkiness of the punches could be that Goku was trying to nullify the effects from the start (he said that he was doing it all along), and them not hurting the nearby stuff could have been a side effect of Goku's attempts at nullification, so that, by the third time, it was completely shockwave-free. That also combines with showing how Champa + Beerus punch field just destroys things immediately around them and spreads out.

[rhyvurg]

Because Goku nullified the third wave entirely.

Then the next one created a super high density energy instead that Beerus nullified. Old Kai outright notes the third clash isn't over.

I wasn't talking about the third punch. Bills didn't stop the wave until well after it had already passed over himself, Goku, and large parts of the Earth. All things it was supposedly going to destroy, but didn't.

According to you, the shockwaves are directly tied to two god people fighting. Two god people fighting did not create shockwaves during the entire first part of the fight between SSJGod and Beerus nor did they create them after Beerus and SSJGod Goku fought post Beerus using his nullification ability.

The problem with your argument is that you take everything shown in the anime and throw it away in favor of a completely new explanation that has never been mentioned.

Yes, because the waves were caused by them punching each other in the fist (no idea why that's a thing so much in DBZ). Later in episode 14, when that exact thing happened again but only one participant was a god, there was no shock wave. Clearly god ki is the variable at work.

[Sharpandpointies]

(no idea why that's a thing so much in DBZ)

You as well?

Gawd, I thought it was only me.... ^_^

[Hazard]

I wasn't talking about the third punch. Bills didn't stop the wave until well after it had already passed over himself, Goku, and large parts of the Earth. All things it was supposedly going to destroy, but didn't.

And it's clearly stated the third clash isn't over hence why the universe is still there.

Yes, because the waves were caused by them punching each other in the fist (no idea why that's a thing so much in DBZ). Later in episode 14, when that exact thing happened again but only one participant was a god, there was no shock wave. Clearly god ki is the variable at work.

And we see them punching each other plenty of times without waves to the point of a character even asking why there aren't anymore waves, all while Goku is still in God mode.

Also, it also happens when their energy blasts meet so that doesn't work either.

Your explanation isn't.

Edit: Hell, the actual narration notes SSJ Goku and Beerus are punching each other with universal level power which is in keeping with every other statement we had in the fight.

Edit 2: And it's not like SSJ Goku post ritual doesn't have God Ki so that's another problem with your theory.

[rhyvurg]

And it's clearly stated the third clash isn't over hence why the universe is still there.

The third wave passed over things it was supposed to be able to destroy, but didn't. When events contradict statements, events win.

And we see them punching each other plenty of times without waves to the point of a character even asking why there aren't anymore waves, all while Goku is still in God mode.

Also, it also happens when their energy blasts meet so that doesn't work either.

Your explanation isn't.

Edit: Hell, the actual narration notes SSJ Goku and Beerus are punching each other with universal level power which is in keeping with every other statement we had in the fight.

Edit 2: And it's not like SSJ Goku post ritual doesn't have God Ki so that's another problem with your theory.

Yes but not punching each other in the fist, the action that caused the waves in the first place. Goku might have had god ki (maybe) but was not in the god form. Toriyama wrote what he wrote, even if he's not aware of it. Did the writer of Final Crisis intend to give Superman a feat for infinite strength and durability? Probably not. Did the writer of Death of the New Gods intend to give him a flight speed of 1.2 million times the speed of light, minimum? Again, probably not. But that's still what they put on paper.

[Hazard]

The third wave passed over things it was supposed to be able to destroy, but didn't. When events contradict statements, events win.

Again, because the third clash wasn't over. It's outright noted in-series.

Yes but not punching each other in the fist, the action that caused the waves in the first place.

As proved by the third clash you are so fond of getting wrong, that's immaterial.

[rhyvurg]

Again, because the third clash wasn't over. It's outright noted in-series.

The first two were destroying things on impact, the third was supposed to be the final. As in, destroying everything on impact, including Goku and Bills. That didn't happen.

As proved by the third clash you are so fond of getting wrong, that's immaterial.

How is it not? Under almost the same circumstances, the shock wave didn't happen. The only difference was the god form. What other possible conclusion could there be?