Ra's al ghul vs batman's rogues gallery.

[shades of eternity]

While originally posted by clerics of hell's brigade, I love this thread enough to keep it going

Ra's al Ghul vs Batman's Rogues Gallery.
Ra's and his League of Assassins has come to Gotham once more to finally wipe the city off the map. There's only one problem, though.

Batman's not there to stop him.

In fact, none of the Bat-Family or any of the super heroes and vigilantes that live in and around Gotham are there to stop his dasterdly plan.

No, only one group of people have the power to stop Ra's.



The villians.


That's right, Batman's villians (by hook or crook or open ended threat) must work together (plawt gawds mandate) to stop Ra's from destroying the city and her inhabitants.

And no, they can't stop him by destroying the city themselves first. In fact, if they manage to save Gotham each will rewarded with 50 million dollars.

So, I propose to you thusly:

Ra's al Ghul, Talia al Ghul, Nyssa Raatkond all their assassins that they've been shown to role with (including David Cain, Lady Shiva, Mad-Dog and the like)

vs

Anarky
Bane
Black Mask
Blockbuster
Calender Man
Catman
Catwoman
Clayface (Ultimate version)
Cluemaster
Deadshot
Firefly
Harley Quinn
Professor Hugo Strange
Hush
The Joker
KG Beast
Killer Croc
Killer Moth
The Mad Hatter
Man-Bat
Maxie Zeus
Mr. Freze
The Penguin
Posion Ivy
Prometheus
Red Hood
The Riddler
Simon Hurt
The Scarecrow
Solomon Grundy (the version Batman fights, not the Sueprman class foe)
Talley Man
Tweedledum
Tweedledee
Two-Face
The Ventriloquist
Victor Zsasz

And all their usual criminal crews.

Each side have one hour of prep before Ra's team arrives in Gotham via whatever means they can deploy. To win, Ra's and his crew must kill all the Rogues Gallery and destroy Gotham. For the villians to win, they must kill all of Ra's goons and the Demon's Head himself and not destroy Gotham completly in the process.

edit: no prep time for ras, but can get as many men as they can.

So, which team wins?

[shades of eternity]

originally posted by mailedbypostman1: Ra's doesn't get prep. The scenario was changed so the crooks get a day and Ra's comes in with his boys without use of virus bombs and stuff/

just for fun, here is a city map.



now place your players

edit: I see the bridges being blown, ivy in the botanical garden, and the riddler (and grundy) in gotham light and power.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Hey, thanks for the nod, Shade.

The League's best bet, without prep to viral weapon them all to death, is probably to send in David Cain and Shiva first to weed out the Rogues. 80% of the listed ones would be mulch to stealth like Cain has, after all. I could easily see him and Shiva alone killing a majority from stealth and the like.

[butterfingers158]

I'm not sure they could kill Clayface

[The MunchKING]

That's the one I would worry about too.

And the ten-eyed man! He's the most dangerous man IN that world!

[zhris]

originally posted by mailedbypostman1: Ra's doesn't get prep. The scenario was changed so the crooks get a day and Ra's comes in with his boys without use of virus bombs and stuff.

Is the reverse true as well? If not, it's feasible that Joker could inoculate the city, then set off Smilex bombs all over Gotham (Think Batman Begins, but with Joker Juice instead of Fear Gas) once the LoA arrives. That could not only thin out the LoA redshirts, but also herd most of them either underground, overground, or outside the city, where damage can be kept to a minimum. Then, assuming the reduced LoA assassins cancel out the generic Gotham Thugs, it becomes a Seek and Destroy mission for the Villains. For example, Cain could easily handle any one, maybe two Villains, but could he handle KGBeast, Croc, Clayface, and Bane all at the same time (speaking of which, wasn't Bane once Ubu?). It all comes down to the Villains' ability to work together; if they squabble amongst themselves they're doomed to be picked off one by one, but as a united front against LoA I could see them winning.

[Matt the Manly]

Is the reverse true as well? If not, it's feasible that Joker could inoculate the city, then set off Smilex bombs all over Gotham (Think Batman Begins, but with Joker Juice instead of Fear Gas) once the LoA arrives. That could not only thin out the LoA redshirts, but also herd most of them either underground, overground, or outside the city, where damage can be kept to a minimum.

The LoA guys could just wear gas masks
And the smoke will play into the "sneak up and KO villains" strategy these guys are bound to employ

Then, assuming the reduced LoA assassins cancel out the generic Gotham Thugs, it becomes a Seek and Destroy mission for the Villains. For example, Cain could easily handle any one, maybe two Villains, but could he handle KGBeast

KGBeast ? Easily

Croc,

Cain, not so easily
some of the others like Shiva and Slade, handily Take apart Croc, presuming this is Hush virus version

Clayface,

They would require equipment to take down Clay face without PIS

and Bane all at the same time (speaking of which, wasn't Bane once Ubu?).

Quite a few of these guys can take down Bane
Though Bane would presumably be on Team LOA since he has worked with them before

and you are assuming they are all going to be alone

Heck this team just saunters into Gotham
Ras al Ghul
Talia al Ghul
Lady Shiva
Deathstroke
Merlyn
Bronze Tiger
Cassandra freakin Cain
Mad Dog
David Cain
Bane(if you count him)

Whos going to stop them?

It all comes down to the Villains' ability to work together; if they squabble amongst themselves they're doomed to be picked off one by one, but as a united front against LoA I could see them winning.

Or they could just bring in all their troops pumped up on Man Bat serum Leviathan style while taking apart Gotham


I see the League winning. Even without the hour of prep

[Matt the Manly]

To be fair Cassandra Cain might not count. Which does change things a little

Still, the LOA to win

[Jonathan]

I would imagine Bane would be a pretty serious threat to him in his own right, as would Freeze and Ivy.

[shades of eternity]

yeah

Bane is best used as general. He knows Raj and can use it against him.

[shades of eternity]

Once the worst lunatics are dead and the others organized under the rest, they stand a fighting chance. (Joker, Zsasz, and Maxie Zeus)

The villains have to safeguard civilians and that's really not their forte. Oddly enough this might be penguin's best talent when he leads the civies to buildings that are being guarded by mooks.

they will have to send in a small strike team that infiltrates the demon head's headquarters and hope for the best.


Bane has to be Field leader in this one. He's the only guy with both the brains and brawns to do it as well as the leadership skills. Furthermore he knows Ras...and is probably the only guy who might be able to beat Ras.

in fact a particularly nasty, but simple trick, is to setup a series of fake batmans as decoys to get key members into traps.

Catman and Deadshot are his personal enforcers. Catman is about the only guy on the roster who could track a member of the league of shadows and Deadshot is about the only guy who might hit one. They stay together, they live.

Jason Todd would probably switch sides in most situations, and is only moderately likely he would listen to those three. However, if they do break into the bat cave. ed hood has to be in the batwing...it plays to all of his strengths and gives the villains an eye in the sky as well.

The Mad Hatter has mind control chips handed out, and given to floyd, he might be able to put them at range into key targets.

Poison ivy's usefulness is completely based on her power level and temperment. Ras' goal in most situation matches with hers and she's more likely to be a turncoat. Additionally her power level fluctuates to essentially being a mad gardener to a justice league member threat.

The Scarecrow, assuming he can follow orders, might be able to scare people into going down dead ends. however, he will need a bodyguard.

Killer Croc might be usable as muscle, but he's not going to ambush anybody in the legue of shadows. Scarecrow gets killer croc for a bodyguard but neither is likely to last long.

the Riddler's best chance is to taken to where the main controls are of the city's infrastructure and used as a coordinator, but his arrogance will get in the way of productivity. Better yet, put him in the batcave.

Grundy is at best muscle in the dcu unless he has some of those necromatic abilities in some incantations. He's useful as a speedbump and little else.

Hmm you know riddler with grundy as his bodyguard might just work.

The man-bat is in a similar manner. in most recent incantation, it's a beast and little use beyond being used as a weapon. hell to protect the riddler in the batcave, give him a meat spray that attracts bats, and have a caged manbat...that gets injected with venom once a button is pressed <eg>.

Clayface is wierd. He's hands down the most powerful rogue here (save possibly poison ivy or mr freeze), but he won't be able to infiltrate the league of shadows and his actions merely mean he needs to be "contained" rather then fought.

The Joker and Harley will not follow orders at all, so whatever they do, it will be big, but it could potentially mess up the rogues even more.
(ooh, ooh, give him captain clown).

mr Freeze can follow orders and is one of the bigger threats, but about the only way they can motivate him is to use his wife as a hostage...and that will not end well.

Firefly has a nasty suit at the batman level, but firebugging is at best a mook killer.

The Penguin may have some much needed equipment he "aquired" for the use and he's human resources.

Catwoman basically acts as intel. Her sneakiness works well for this. Maybe she acts as forward observer for Floyd as well.

Two-face gets convinced to join when riddler switches his coin :P.

Anarky would be Bane's prodigy and I'm really not sure if that would be a good or bad thing. We know Bane is surprisingly caring to those under his charge, but his view on life would really mess the poor kid up .

Prometheus is a beast without equal in hand to hand. He's the most likely member to school somebody like david cain or lady shiva. The problem is he's probably useless afterwards.

kgbeast, I'm starting to see him as another key player, used a lot like deadshot, but with his explosive skills, is probably used a lot for setting up traps...although he's definately no slouch in a fight.

the majority of the rogues after this point are cannon fodder at best.

[MidTierHero]

Villains win. There's way too much muscle and strategy on their side. Joker, Clayface, Catman, Prometheus, Bane, Blockbuster...

[Zagreus]

Villains win. There's way too much muscle and strategy on their side. Joker, Clayface, Catman, Prometheus, Bane, Blockbuster...

I'm leaning towards the villians as well. I think Ra's team will nearly take it, as the the villains will not be coordinated and fall apart due to infighting, the joker is nowhere to be seen. When all seems lost, and Ra's is about to claim his victory stroke, Joker w/ Harley will pull something that Ra's cannot predict out of his @$$ that will turn the tables, cackling all while, "Only I get to terrorize this town! Nobody breaks MY toys!"

Then he escapes, letting the other villains get the upper hand. That's how I see something like this going.

[Primetime Harder]

When all seems lost, and Ra's is about to claim his victory stroke, Joker w/ Harley will pull something that Ra's cannot predict out of his @$$ that will turn the tables, cackling all while, "Only I get to terrorize this town! Nobody breaks MY toys!"

Of course, he's equally likely to switch sides in the middle of the fight, just to see the look on everyone's faces.

[Daenarys Stormborn]

I was planning to comment on this early but it is so overwhelming. I would say the key elements here are how badly the villains will bicker in the onset (similar to Arkham War), and to what degree Talia employs what should be a fairly intimate knowledge of a bunch of Batman villains to prevent the league from being mind-controlled or gassed. In the event the League can preserve its numbers, the grunts I mean, I imagine it would be hard for villains to gather the necessary henchmen in time. This is assuming people like Black Mask and Simon do not come with the massive organizational backing/ resources they do during after the 1 hour prep.

The two Cains and Shiva start off with assassinating the planners. They need to target the Joker, Riddler, Hugo, Hurt, and any such planners. Once the planners are good and dead the league can mobilize without fear of being cut down in droves. Ivy and Clayface are pretty massive issues though.