Did Copperhead get cancelled too!!!! >:(

[capuga]

Just now on twitter:

Jay Faerber ‏@JayFaerber 46s47 seconds ago
Nothing to report. We're grinding away on the next arc, in between other projects.

patrick foster @patrickfoster
@JayFaerber Apologies if you've mentioned it elsewhere, but—any news on COPPERHEAD?

[Deniz Camp]

I understand your frustration, but before you rush to anger and bitterness consider the economics of making comics. Many of these books are not making their creators much; and even those that pay a decent wage do so over time, intermittently, or when factoring in IP exploitation.

The guy who does Copperhead is currently working on Dark & Bloody; he's getting a page rate, and a strong royalty incentive, from a company that knows how to get collected editions into bookstores. But, more than anything, he's getting paid, up front, guaranteed. He can plan his life around that.

That isn't possible with Copperhead. That isn't possible with A LOT of Image books. And people have to eat.

[daningotham]

I understand your frustration, but before you rush to anger and bitterness consider the economics of making comics. Many of these books are not making their creators much; and even those that pay a decent wage do so over time, intermittently, or when factoring in IP exploitation.

The guy who does Copperhead is currently working on Dark & Bloody; he's getting a page rate, and a strong royalty incentive, from a company that knows how to get collected editions into bookstores. But, more than anything, he's getting paid, up front, guaranteed. He can plan his life around that.

That isn't possible with Copperhead. That isn't possible with A LOT of Image books. And people have to eat.

I totally get it, and am not angry. But I don't think it will help their sales at all by taking months off in between issues. The fan base is going to go away and find something else to read. It's why I dropped a lot of independent titles as it seems to be a recurring theme a lot of the time. One thing about independent titles for creators is they have so much freedom. But sometimes is it too much freedom? The only independent titles I buy on a normal basis are ones that stick to a normal schedule. That's a fan's take on it. From a creator's take I totally hear what you are saying. It doesn't always pay the best, and you have to go where the money is. So then we end up here, with awesome titles that stop coming out. Or take huge breaks and when they do eventually come out again people have forgotten about them.

[Deniz Camp]

Totally. I understand being gunshy or reticent to support in the future due to unreliability and general loss of enthusiasm. I only mean to say not to take it personally, or to think it's the result of creators not caring, being lazy, being primadonnas, or whatever. More often than not it's the realities of economics more than anything else.

[daningotham]

Totally. I understand being gunshy or reticent to support in the future due to unreliability and general loss of enthusiasm. I only mean to say not to take it personally, or to think it's the result of creators not caring, being lazy, being primadonnas, or whatever. More often than not it's the realities of economics more than anything else.

Yeah, hopefully Copperhead will come out again someday. Had the same feel as Firefly, just hope it doesn't come to the same early ending fate.

[matt levin]

I'd like to add that over the years (sigh: the decades, already) I've become accustomed to series 'taking long breaks' between issues (Castle Waiting? Jack Staff? KANE!?) and while it's hard waiting, there's always a surfeit of other titles between times, AND, when a new issue of the long-awaited series reappears, it's cause for celebration, even, in cases of long hiatuses (hmm...'hiatisae'?), cause for rereading and celebration. I, at least, do not forget and give up on series I've really enjoyed. I fill my time with other titles, re-read in anticipation of the next new issue, and enjoy my 'long-lost' title once more.

[Drunk Viking]

I understand your frustration, but before you rush to anger and bitterness consider the economics of making comics. Many of these books are not making their creators much; and even those that pay a decent wage do so over time, intermittently, or when factoring in IP exploitation.

The guy who does Copperhead is currently working on Dark & Bloody; he's getting a page rate, and a strong royalty incentive, from a company that knows how to get collected editions into bookstores. But, more than anything, he's getting paid, up front, guaranteed. He can plan his life around that.

That isn't possible with Copperhead. That isn't possible with A LOT of Image books. And people have to eat.

Nearly everything I've read about creating comics implies that one of the main reasons creators go to Image to create their own comics is because they make a lot more money there than they would elsewhere. But it sounds like you're saying that Creator-owned comics from Image earn their creators a mere pittance. Am I misunderstanding you here?

[Dark-Flux]

You can potentially earn more with creator owned. But the risks are also greater, in that if sales drop below a certain point youd stop making a profit. Whereas with work for hire youd be getting a set page rate no matter the sales.

[Deniz Camp]

Nearly everything I've read about creating comics implies that one of the main reasons creators go to Image to create their own comics is because they make a lot more money there than they would elsewhere. But it sounds like you're saying that Creator-owned comics from Image earn their creators a mere pittance. Am I misunderstanding you here?

You are not misunderstanding me.

The majority of creator owned comics make their creators a pittance. A few of them are even created at a loss. Writers are the last people to get paid, and often aren't paid. Even the artists, if they're working backend, aren't making their page rates.

Scott Snyder makes more from Wytches than he does from Batman. No doubt, so does Jock. But that book is selling many, many more copies than something like Copperhead.

Creator owned stuff has the potential to make more than company owned stuff, but it's a long game. The short game really is all about what your name means in the market at the moment the book is coming out -- and Faeber had been out of comics for a while, and the artist didn't have much to his name.

On the other hand, they'll continue earning money off that trade paper back for as long as it's in print. That isn't true for a company owned book (or, rather, with royalties you'll earn a very small percentage). They'll earn money if it gets optioned for filim or television, and more besides if it gets made. But those are big 'ifs'.

[Drunk Viking]

I appreciate that detailed response, thanks.

[Drunk Viking]

Wait, hold on. Now that I think about it, in a way that's even worse. So basically he started out like many others on independent books hoping to cash in on high trade sales and/or selling the rights, and when he realized it's not making as much money as he was hoping for, his response is "Eh, screw it, why should I bother if it's not worth my time"?

I get that at the end of the day it's a job and it's about making money, which I have no problem with, but that's incredibly disheartening. That's exactly why people like myself are getting more and more jaded about picking up new independent series'. What's the point; they're likely to cancel it if the first few issues don't sell insanely high. But that's probably a segue into another conversation about collectability/demand/etc.

I'm sure I'm being overly harsh. But whether it's from being overworked or underpaid, series being canceled after a couple arcs or being delayed for over a year are annoying as hell.

[Scott Lantern]

Wait, hold on. Now that I think about it, in a way that's even worse. So basically he started out like many others on independent books hoping to cash in on high trade sales and/or selling the rights, and when he realized it's not making as much money as he was hoping for, his response is "Eh, screw it, why should I bother if it's not worth my time"?

I get that at the end of the day it's a job and it's about making money, which I have no problem with, but that's incredibly disheartening. That's exactly why people like myself are getting more and more jaded about picking up new independent series'. What's the point; they're likely to cancel it if the first few issues don't sell insanely high. But that's probably a segue into another conversation about collectability/demand/etc.

I'm sure I'm being overly harsh. But whether it's from being overworked or underpaid, series being canceled after a couple arcs or being delayed for over a year are annoying as hell.

No, I don't think it's like that at all. The reality is Copperhead isn't making the artist enough money to survive, so he took a job where he could have some steady income. He is still working on Copperhead in his free time, he didn't abandon it. Copperhead will return, but they wanted to ensure that all 5 issues would come out monthly and with Scott working on another book, so he can make money to live, the next arc will be awhile yet...

If you like the book, you need to be patient and respect that the artist needs to work on other things as well. He could have just walked away as well, but obviously the team is committed to continuing the book.

[Bor]

Wait, hold on. Now that I think about it, in a way that's even worse. So basically he started out like many others on independent books hoping to cash in on high trade sales and/or selling the rights, and when he realized it's not making as much money as he was hoping for, his response is "Eh, screw it, why should I bother if it's not worth my time"?

I get that at the end of the day it's a job and it's about making money, which I have no problem with, but that's incredibly disheartening. That's exactly why people like myself are getting more and more jaded about picking up new independent series'. What's the point; they're likely to cancel it if the first few issues don't sell insanely high. But that's probably a segue into another conversation about collectability/demand/etc.

I'm sure I'm being overly harsh. But whether it's from being overworked or underpaid, series being canceled after a couple arcs or being delayed for over a year are annoying as hell.

I really think that is you being overly harsh. These guys have bills to pay and if that means they have to take jobs from other places to be able to live then that is how it has to be. You really seem to be speculating a lot about motivations you have no idea about at all.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I really think that is you being overly harsh. These guys have bills to pay and if that means they have to take jobs from other places to be able to live then that is how it has to be. You really seem to be speculating a lot about motivations you have no idea about at all.

He may be cynical about their intentions, but his own reasoning for avoiding indies is decently sound. For instance, I don't buy Kurtis Wiebe titles b/c they can just stop being made at any point w/o any announcement (see: Peter Panzerfaust, Pisces).

If it's the creators' best interest to work elsewhere mid-run (especially w/o any announcement), then it's fair if I think it's in my own best interest to avoid investment.

Besides, I know I don't know the creators' bills or lives, etc, but even if they're selling a mere 8k/mo (that's...$12k/mo to pay everyone involved?), which I believe titles like Copperhead, Peter Panzerfaust, etc sell, that should be enough for a decent living. Especially if you a) write another title or b) do commission/side work. I always consider these abandoned titles to show lack of sincere love for the art/craft and title itself. If the creators want to make it happen, they will.

Shame, too. Pisces was amazing.

[SwampyCA]

Scott Snyder makes more from Wytches than he does from Batman.

Is this true for sure? I know #1 sold something crazy, like 80k, but #6 was down to 34k. Meanwhile Batman averaged like 120k for five years. I’m just thinking about single issue profits on Wytches v Batman. The trade profits would certainly favor creator owned.

I have always assumed Snyder was getting the highest page rate at the Big2 because of how well Batman was selling.

I just wish Scott and Rafael would get back to American Vampire which unfortunately only sells like 12k.

Wait, hold on. Now that I think about it, in a way that's even worse. So basically he started out like many others on independent books hoping to cash in on high trade sales and/or selling the rights, and when he realized it's not making as much money as he was hoping for, his response is "Eh, screw it, why should I bother if it's not worth my time"?

This sounds harsh to me.
I’m pretty sure people who choose to make comics understand it’s not a get rich quick scheme. Also my guess is instead of them thinking “it’s not worth my time” it’s more like “my family needs to eat. I need a paycheck”