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  1. #106
    Veteran Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    I'm not going to reply to in detail. Anyone who has a problem with what I said can feel free to send me a PM. I'll happily discuss it if they feel I've overstepped my boundries. The mods know where to find me.

    Even after your last reply, I believe I kept my tone pretty neutral towards you and kept most of my comments addressed to everyone in general purposely to avoid this confrontation. If you feel I've insulted you personally or 'flamed' you for liking any book. I appologise that was not my intention. We all get to dislike what we want.

    Where did I 'flame' any poster personally? The word 'flame has a very specific and nasty connotation. My first comment on this topic wasn't even addressed to anyone specific, but rather a remark on the book. And had nothing to do with the O5. Any one who feels I personally flamed you please pm me.

    Your tone is totally out of porportion to the situation and it's now completely just a personal attack. Why? Because I dared state that the O5 are boring? Nothing other posters haven't said over the last few years. It's pretty common. Anything relating to the 'Complex' thread (except the last bit) is stuff I've said numerous times on the thread and no one has ever had such a 'extreme' reaction. Not even the most die-hard Complex shippers.

    I think it's best if we disinegage. I find this converstion had turned incredibly unpleasant.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 01-23-2016 at 07:57 AM.

  2. #107
    Fantastic Member Beorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    I'm not going to reply to in detail. Anyone who has a problem with what I said can feel free to send me a PM. I'll happily discuss it if they feel I've overstepped my boundries. The mods know where to find me.

    Even after your last reply, I believe I kept my tone pretty neutral towards you and kept most of my comments addressed to everyone in general purposely to avoid this confrontation. If you feel I've insulted you personally or 'flamed' you for liking any book. I appologise that was not my intention. We all get to dislike what we want.

    Where did I 'flame' any poster personally? The word 'flame has a very specific and nasty connotation. My first comment on this topic wasn't even addressed to anyone specific, but rather a remark on the book. And had nothing to do with the O5. Any one who feels I personally flamed you please pm me.

    Your tone is totally out of porportion to the situation and it's now completely just a personal attack. Why? Because I dared state that the O5 are boring? Nothing other posters haven't said over the last few years. It's pretty common. Anything relating to the 'Complex' thread (except the last bit) is stuff I've said numerous times on the thread and no one has ever had such a 'extreme' reaction. Not even the most die-hard Complex shippers.

    I think it's best if we disinegage. I find this converstion had turned incredibly unpleasant.
    And yes, I'm freaking serious that people should stop buying mediocre books - which nearly everyone freely admits are mediocre. When people support a lead book that isn't up to snuff, that books stays in the lineup for ages and brings down the whole line. Btw this isn't a new idea - it's why the concept of "lead titles" exist. The main books sets the tone for the rest of the franchise. So a mediocre lead....
    Your arguments sum up as ''Stop liking what I don't!''

  3. #108
    Veteran Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorg View Post
    Your arguments sum up as ''Stop liking what I don't!''
    My comments aren't unique, new or anything not said by a lot of other posters numerous times.

    My point was...with so many posters saying they find the book average at most (check the others comments - that comment was clearly not addressed to anyone who loves this book) and the rest was about the way a comic line works in general.

    You got a lot from that one phrase - not all my "arguments" and does not equal your comment.

    So what's the reverse argument? Because with everyone chipping in, I have yet to hear it. Keep supporting mediocre books (again check the comments - admitted by more than one poster, including those who piled on), so that they keep getting published, even though they're not what we expect as X-readers? I'm sorry, that is an attitude I just don't understand. The faster we phase out lead titles that under preform as leads, the faster we might get better storytelling under a new writer. Lemire himself admits team books are not his speciality. Many of us had a problem with Bendis' run dragging on for two years, because the storytelling was not that mind blowing, but the book just rolled on down the same road month after month.

    Last poll we did in which most CBR regulars took part at the time, only 11 people (last time I checked) out of an overwhelming majority agreed that the last few years were great. The link is in the Complex thread. So I'm not making this up. Later in Lemire's run, maybe at issue #10, I'll do the same poll for reference.

    I'll say one thing for this book. If it was a second tier title, this would not be as damning. It's at least totally missed placed in the line up. Even though, I never thought Amazing lived up to it's name - it wasn't the main book. Titles further down the pipeline, are allowed to meander a bit. It's a perk of not being the lead, but also why it's not the lead.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 01-23-2016 at 08:52 AM.

  4. #109
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    I felt the same way under Nicieza Lobdell except that it seemed like the writers worked on the books.

  5. #110
    Veteran Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    I felt the same way under Nicieza Lobdell.
    Fine with me. I've heard those arguments and I at least understand were older readers came from. I have less severe problems with their runs, but I do get how the loss of CC stung a lot of people. He was a great writer and being drummed out of Marvel that way was totally uncalled for. I would've loved a truck load of Excalibur's from him.

    But X-Men and Uncanny sold like hotcakes (and yes I know about the inflated sales - compared to everything else they still out titles), drew in an insane amount of new readers and the majority of readers were happy. (I was part of the community at time and pre-CBR CFan readers were OK with the two lead books). The inverse of what we have here. (I don't think we can compare Lemire's survival/mist/Inhumans arc Ex-men with "Days of Future Past". ;-) )

    Lemire can stay on OML - his Hawkeye is a totally fine solo book and I expect his OML will be as well. (I did note earlier that he was a good writer, posters seems to have missed that.)
    Last edited by Beezzi; 01-23-2016 at 09:15 AM.

  6. #111
    Fantastic Member Beorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    Keep supporting mediocre books (again check the comments - admitted by more than one poster, including those who piled on), so that they keep getting published, even though they're not what we expect as X-readers? I'm sorry, that is an attitude I just don't understand. The faster we phase out lead titles that under preform as leads, the faster we might get better storytelling under a new writer. Lemire himself admits team books are not his speciality. Many of us had a problem with Bendis' run dragging on for two years, because the storytelling was not that mind blowing, but the book just rolled on down the same road month after month.

    Last poll we did in which most CBR regulars took part at the time, only 11 people (last time I checked) out of an overwhelming majority agreed that the last few years were great. The link is in the Complex thread. So I'm not making this up. Later in Lemire's run, maybe at issue #10, I'll do the same poll for reference.

    I'll say one thing for this book. If it was a second tier title, this would not be as damning. It's at least totally missed placed in the line up. Even though, I never thought Amazing lived up to it's name - it wasn't the main book. Titles further down the pipeline, are allowed to meander a bit. It's a perk of not being the lead, but also why it's not the lead.
    That's subjective. Not a fact. I very much enjoy them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    (again check the comments - admitted by more than one poster, including those who piled on)
    Last poll we did in which most CBR regulars took part at the time, only 11 people (last time I checked) out of an overwhelming majority agreed that the last few years were great.
    Their opinions don't reflect my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    Many of us had a problem with Bendis' run dragging on for two years, because the storytelling was not that mind blowing, but the book just rolled on down the same road month after month.
    The monthly release is bad hence I'm an avid trade reader. I really liked Bendis' run by reading the trades.
    Last edited by Beorg; 01-23-2016 at 09:29 AM.

  7. #112
    Fantastic Member Beorg's Avatar
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    -double post sorry-

  8. #113
    Veteran Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorg View Post
    That's subjective. Not a fact. I very much enjoy them.

    Their opinions don't reflect my own.

    The monthly release is bad hence I'm an avid trade reader. I really liked Bendis' run by reading the trades.
    Did I state in my post the reflected your views? I actual stated which group as was referring to this time...twice...to avoid this. Your original statement to me seemed on my general feeling towards the Ex-Men and not towards your views personally. That's what I was commenting on.

    As for your comment on trades? Unfortunately, single released comic books aren't meant to be read as trades solely. Great, if you prefer to read them that way, some people over the last years have said it improved the run.

    But majority of the readership still reads issue by issue or Marvel would've switch over by now and not been pushing the per issue digital market. Bendis' run was aimed at this market and the majority of the board agreed that Uncanny moved at a snails pace and that the "Testament" arc was one of the most disappointing things in the history of the human race*.


    *That last bit's a joke. Hyperbole for effect.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 01-23-2016 at 10:00 AM.

  9. #114
    Veteran Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Double post as well...I think the conversation is melting down the board it's so circular.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 01-23-2016 at 09:48 AM.

  10. #115
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Very circular. Some like it, others hate it. Lots are "meh" about it. It's all good. No reason for anyone to get mad. Let's move on and talk about the actual book itself now.

    Personally I'm glad to see Forge back. Loved his interaction with Cable in the Hopeless 'Cable & X-Force' series, so that series made me more of a Forge fan. Look forward to seeing more of him.

  11. #116
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    Actually Beezi Lemire is doing a better job than bendis. First he actually had a plot, larger quest that needs to be solved and the characterization is varied and different. That doesn't include the use of actual villains that have a better motivation than I don't like Scott. So yeah its better and that's why I look at Lemire's writing as average with some improvements.

  12. #117
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    I love this book. Sucks the X-Men are getting the shaft for stupid reasons, but I absolutely loved grumpy old Logan being back, as opposed to who he is prior to his death. Still waiting to see how he reacts to his kids(laura, Daken), and Creed's current mindstate.

  13. #118
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm liking Old Man Logan too. Feels like Wolverine is back. The cranky, cantankerous, unpredictable Wolverine of old as opposed to "Headmaster Logan" who was a member of like five super teams, was everyone's best friend, and who conveniently forgot everything he knew about the Phoenix Force during AvX and sided with the Avengers over his family. Other than Remender's Uncanny X-Force and the first arc of Jason Aaron's Wolverine: Weapon X series, I haven't liked anything Marvel has done with Wolverine in the past ten years or so.

    My favorite Wolverine era was the 80s, when he really broke out. He was cranky, cantankerous and unpredicable then...to the point where the other heroes were always wary of him and didn't quite trust him. OML kind of has that same vibe going. He doesn't trust himself even because of what happened in his timeline. I'm not crazy about how quickly he cozied up to Teen Jean, but I guess I can understand it. If my wife or some woman I loved died, and then came back as a young woman I would automatically be drawn to her. Not sure where Lemire will go with this, and in parts it has seemed a tad creepy, but putting myself in Logan's shoes I'm not sure how I'd behave in that situation. So we'll see where it goes from here.

    Also looking forward to the OML solo series by Lemire, as it seems like Logan is just going on a murder spree across the Marvel U trying to kill people who are bad in his timeline. This certainly won't win him any brownie points with the Avengers, and I look forward to his confrontation with Old Man Rogers (right before he gets de-aged and becomes Captain America again apparently). That should be fun.

    I'm also interested to find out who else is joining this cast in EXM, as Lemire did say there was another character showing up. I'm hoping for Jubilee personally.

  14. #119
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    My comments aren't unique, new or anything not said by a lot of other posters numerous times.

    My point was...with so many posters saying they find the book average at most (check the others comments - that comment was clearly not addressed to anyone who loves this book) and the rest was about the way a comic line works in general.

    You got a lot from that one phrase - not all my "arguments" and does not equal your comment.

    So what's the reverse argument? Because with everyone chipping in, I have yet to hear it. Keep supporting mediocre books (again check the comments - admitted by more than one poster, including those who piled on), so that they keep getting published, even though they're not what we expect as X-readers? I'm sorry, that is an attitude I just don't understand. The faster we phase out lead titles that under preform as leads, the faster we might get better storytelling under a new writer. Lemire himself admits team books are not his speciality. Many of us had a problem with Bendis' run dragging on for two years, because the storytelling was not that mind blowing, but the book just rolled on down the same road month after month.

    Last poll we did in which most CBR regulars took part at the time, only 11 people (last time I checked) out of an overwhelming majority agreed that the last few years were great. The link is in the Complex thread. So I'm not making this up. Later in Lemire's run, maybe at issue #10, I'll do the same poll for reference.

    I'll say one thing for this book. If it was a second tier title, this would not be as damning. It's at least totally missed placed in the line up. Even though, I never thought Amazing lived up to it's name - it wasn't the main book. Titles further down the pipeline, are allowed to meander a bit. It's a perk of not being the lead, but also why it's not the lead.
    Well, to be sincere, those posts ended up sounding like if you were saying that anyone who like Extraordinary is a Dis-Marvel's boot-licker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    My comments aren't unique, new or anything not said by a lot of other posters numerous times.

    My point was...with so many posters saying they find the book average at most (check the others comments - that comment was clearly not addressed to anyone who loves this book) and the rest was about the way a comic line works in general.

    You got a lot from that one phrase - not all my "arguments" and does not equal your comment.

    So what's the reverse argument? Because with everyone chipping in, I have yet to hear it. Keep supporting mediocre books (again check the comments - admitted by more than one poster, including those who piled on), so that they keep getting published, even though they're not what we expect as X-readers? I'm sorry, that is an attitude I just don't understand. The faster we phase out lead titles that under preform as leads, the faster we might get better storytelling under a new writer. Lemire himself admits team books are not his speciality. Many of us had a problem with Bendis' run dragging on for two years, because the storytelling was not that mind blowing, but the book just rolled on down the same road month after month.

    Last poll we did in which most CBR regulars took part at the time, only 11 people (last time I checked) out of an overwhelming majority agreed that the last few years were great. The link is in the Complex thread. So I'm not making this up. Later in Lemire's run, maybe at issue #10, I'll do the same poll for reference.

    I'll say one thing for this book. If it was a second tier title, this would not be as damning. It's at least totally missed placed in the line up. Even though, I never thought Amazing lived up to it's name - it wasn't the main book. Titles further down the pipeline, are allowed to meander a bit. It's a perk of not being the lead, but also why it's not the lead.
    It's just me or did you forgot how the things work since at least Disney bought Star Wars ?.
    We are not fighting against bad writing or some X-office's horrible ideas; we are against Disney's corporate pettiness because FOX still owns the movie rights of the X-men, the FF, and the Original Trilogy of Star Wars.

  15. #120
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    people do whatever they want, but if x-men drop and get cancelled, marvel will hardly bring it back soon. See FF?

    this books hasn't been so good, lemire really lacks on team books. maybe he should get a smaller team, he writes magik very well

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