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  1. #4021
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Material Flux View Post
    If a majority of viewers enjoyed the direction it was going, they wouldn't have pivoted so hard. This show is probably one of the best examples of a show changing directions and gaining popularity and success as a result; I've seen articles online saying the same.
    I feel like season 2 (and to an extent season 3) balanced the tones better and that's when Legends started getting more popular.
    Even the show itself makes fun of this when the characters say they hate crossovers...
    And that annoys me. Like, it really felt bad when it happened during Crisis and almost like they were belittling the whole thing. Like they're somehow above/better than it.
    This is not a Legends specific issue, the writers generally didn't care much about the shared universe aside from crossovers once it branched out from being just Arrow and Flash. Batwoman and Black Lightning had some damn stupid storylines that completely disregarded the wider Arrowverse.
    I don't think anything major in Batwoman contradicts the wider Arrowverse that much.

  2. #4022
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Material Flux View Post
    If a majority of viewers enjoyed the direction it was going, they wouldn't have pivoted so hard. This show is probably one of the best examples of a show changing directions and gaining popularity and success as a result; I've seen articles online saying the same.
    Except I believe the rating were better when it was more serious than it is now.

    Legends has always been doing it's own thing due to the premise of the show. I would even say they handle being part of a shared universe better than many of the rest of them. Even the show itself makes fun of this when the characters say they hate crossovers.
    But they did do crossovers when it was more serious and the rating were better. As for handling a shared universe better, I think you would have a hard time defending that.
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  3. #4023
    Spectacular Member Material Flux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I feel like season 2 (and to an extent season 3) balanced the tones better and that's when Legends started getting more popular.
    I think Season 2 was still on the edge and Season 3 was when the show really came into it's own, which was when a lot of the humour and meta commentary that currently carries the show came into being. The Beebo thing certainly proved popular.

    And that annoys me. Like, it really felt bad when it happened during Crisis and almost like they were belittling the whole thing. Like they're somehow above/better than it.
    That was just the show making a joke that Legends is really off doing it's own thing compared to the other shows.

    I don't think anything major in Batwoman contradicts the wider Arrowverse that much.
    Not contradicts per say, but they wrote plots that don't make much sense when you recall that they are in the Arrowverse. Like Ryan's kryptonite poisoning or how the alternate Beth died. This isn't major stuff, but it annoyed me because of how easily it could have been solved. I felt the writers should have come up with potlines without that issue.

  4. #4024
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Material Flux View Post
    I think Season 2 was still on the edge and Season 3 was when the show really came into it's own, which was when a lot of the humour and meta commentary that currently carries the show came into being. The Beebo thing certainly proved popular.
    Beebo was great that first time because it was funny without becoming farcical.
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  5. #4025
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    Ooookay, at times the episode was a bit cringy, but I was really blown away by Behrad's heartfelt moment. Positively blown away, that is.

  6. #4026
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Material Flux View Post
    I think Season 2 was still on the edge and Season 3 was when the show really came into it's own, which was when a lot of the humour and meta commentary that currently carries the show came into being. The Beebo thing certainly proved popular.
    Comparative to season 4/5 though...
    That was just the show making a joke that Legends is really off doing it's own thing compared to the other shows.
    It felt mean-spirited unless you care more about Legends than the other shows.
    Not contradicts per say, but they wrote plots that don't make much sense when you recall that they are in the Arrowverse. Like Ryan's kryptonite poisoning or how the alternate Beth died. This isn't major stuff, but it annoyed me because of how easily it could have been solved. I felt the writers should have come up with potlines without that issue.
    Ryan had no contact with the DEO or Supergirl to be able to help with her Kryptonite poisoning...and given we never saw any other doppelgangers on Supergirl, maybe they did go the way of Beth.

  7. #4027
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    There are many of us that think the comedy is what makes this show good. Do we need another serious CW superhero show? I watch for the comedy and the characters, not some action adventure. Though when they do action, it is often a lot of fun.
    One of the reasons I like it when it first turned towards comedy was that it deviated from the melodramatic soap opera masquerading as serious drama of the other shows.

    Joe West: Barry, I've known you since you were a child. I know you are better than your underconfidence. You can do this, Barry. We have this conversation 22 times per season for every season the show has been on the air. Next time, I'm just copying and pasting this for you Barry.

    Same with the marital problems of CW characters, and friendships, and trust issues, and...

    It almost makes me prefer older shows where people could just have an adventure without being basket cases.

    So, up to a point, the comedy is welcome.
    Power with Girl is better.

  8. #4028
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    One of the reasons I like it when it first turned towards comedy was that it deviated from the melodramatic soap opera masquerading as serious drama of the other shows.

    Joe West: Barry, I've known you since you were a child. I know you are better than your underconfidence. You can do this, Barry. We have this conversation 22 times per season for every season the show has been on the air. Next time, I'm just copying and pasting this for you Barry.

    Same with the marital problems of CW characters, and friendships, and trust issues, and...

    It almost makes me prefer older shows where people could just have an adventure without being basket cases.

    So, up to a point, the comedy is welcome.
    I understand the appeal of a break from the constant melodrama but when the characters barely take themselves or events seriously...and barely act like real Superheroes.

  9. #4029
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I understand the appeal of a break from the constant melodrama but when the characters barely take themselves or events seriously...and barely act like real Superheroes.
    Oh I know. They've gone far beyond "up to a point". They constantly break the 4th wall which is one of the biggest possible turnoffs for me. I'm just assuming the show is winding down. So, might as well see it through.

    Edit: To be clear, I love the Adam West Batman and the George Reeves Superman. But this is different. It's a show that started as a drama. I didn't mind some comedy. But it's become something it was not meant to be.
    Last edited by Powerboy; 01-23-2022 at 08:38 PM.
    Power with Girl is better.

  10. #4030
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    One of the reasons I like it when it first turned towards comedy was that it deviated from the melodramatic soap opera masquerading as serious drama of the other shows.

    Joe West: Barry, I've known you since you were a child. I know you are better than your underconfidence. You can do this, Barry. We have this conversation 22 times per season for every season the show has been on the air. Next time, I'm just copying and pasting this for you Barry.

    Same with the marital problems of CW characters, and friendships, and trust issues, and...

    It almost makes me prefer older shows where people could just have an adventure without being basket cases.

    So, up to a point, the comedy is welcome.
    The funny thing is, despite LoT lurch toward the craziness, it still has the melodrama. It just doesn't fit nearly as well as it would have if the show was still on the serious side. In fact, it's kind of jarring when it pops up.

    BTW, I'm not that crazy about that stuff, either, but it isn't remotely a CW thing. Unfortunately, the vast majority of shows are infected with it.
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  11. #4031
    Spectacular Member Material Flux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It felt mean-spirited unless you care more about Legends than the other shows.
    I personally didn't see it that way. The Legends are kinda like that weird cousin who only comes around on Christmas sometimes. Also recall that they lost a team member during a crossover. I can't blame them for not being keen on them after that.

    Ryan had no contact with the DEO or Supergirl to be able to help with her Kryptonite poisoning...
    You would think that Luke or Mary would have their numbers.

    and given we never saw any other doppelgangers on Supergirl, maybe they did go the way of Beth.
    I was talking about the fact that there was all that hullaballoo about how to evacuate Beth from Gotham when all they needed was a quick phone call to Barry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I understand the appeal of a break from the constant melodrama but when the characters barely take themselves or events seriously...and barely act like real Superheroes.
    I would say that Legends have never been a superhero show, at least not in the way that the rest of the Arrowverse shows are.

    The whole premise of the show is that they were gathered together because their careers as heroes and villains were so inconsequential to the timeline that they could be removed without issue. Season 1 tried to fit into the usual Arrowverse mold, but it did so badly that the show had to pivot completely. After that the show went out to do it's own thing.

  12. #4032
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    The show now is basically inhabited by characters that I don't have a clue who they are except for Sara and Ava and the historian guy, the others I really don't care about and so have stopped watching...

  13. #4033
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    The funny thing is, despite LoT lurch toward the craziness, it still has the melodrama. It just doesn't fit nearly as well as it would have if the show was still on the serious side. In fact, it's kind of jarring when it pops up.

    BTW, I'm not that crazy about that stuff, either, but it isn't remotely a CW thing. Unfortunately, the vast majority of shows are infected with it.
    Honestly, that was in the back of my mind that LoT still has the melodrama which doesn't really fit with the comedy. Not that there can't be drama and real feelings in a comedy but not when the comedy goes to the current level of LoT campiness.

    The only shows I've ever seen where I thought that mixture of sheer campiness combined with genuine drama actually worked was back in the '90s with Hercules and Xena and I can't really explain why it worked.

    And, too true that it's not just a CW thing. I think the technical term is Deconstructionism, where every story has to involve the characters being broken down and questioning everything they are, which is fine until it feels like it's being done constantly just because.
    Power with Girl is better.

  14. #4034
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Material Flux View Post
    I personally didn't see it that way. The Legends are kinda like that weird cousin who only comes around on Christmas sometimes. Also recall that they lost a team member during a crossover. I can't blame them for not being keen on them after that.
    I get it, but the way they conveyed it just came off as very dismissive to me.
    You would think that Luke or Mary would have their numbers.
    I think Kate was the only one in close contact with Kara, and with her gone...
    I was talking about the fact that there was all that hullaballoo about how to evacuate Beth from Gotham when all they needed was a quick phone call to Barry.
    We can't all have Ollie on speed-dial like Ollie and Jefferson Pierce .

    I think that was around the time Barry's speed was fluctuating so he might not have been able to help as much.
    I would say that Legends have never been a superhero show, at least not in the way that the rest of the Arrowverse shows are.

    The whole premise of the show is that they were gathered together because their careers as heroes and villains were so inconsequential to the timeline that they could be removed without issue. Season 1 tried to fit into the usual Arrowverse mold, but it did so badly that the show had to pivot completely. After that the show went out to do it's own thing.
    I would say seasons 1-3 it was still a Superhero show because they still used their costumes/powers more, even if it became less and less over time (especially for budget reasons).

    Now they barely use their powers, barely have powers, and only two characters actually have costumes (that they barely wear).

  15. #4035
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    Nice surprise to see the Reverse Flash with no speed ability.

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