Tomorrow comes: Legends of Tomorrow

[signalman112]

Like the giant Atom-Robot fight.
Anyone else think that the Giant Robot sort of look like MR. ATOM, A Captain Marvel villain?

[cadet]

Cassandra Savage switched sides awfully quickly.

I would think an immortal like Savage must have fathered a large number of children over the years.

Can they please kill Kendra off and reincarnate her as someone who doesn't make such stupid decisions?

The robot fight was good for a TV budget

[Jim Kelly]

I also thought of Mr. Atom when Ray fought the giant robot.

It would've been so much better if Sara could have been sent to kill Savage, I think she would have got the job done and had some great action scenes while doing it. But I gather that there are certain rules for how Savage can be killed and make it stick. I don't remember what those rules are, but I'm guessing Savage has to be killed by one or both of the Hawks and with one of those objects from when he first killed them.

I don't know about this other rule that the Hawks can't reincarnate until both of them have died, but surely with the future Carter, Kendra meeting him is like when she met her past self. At some point, Kendra is going to die again and then both she and Carter will be reincarnated. So 150 years in the future, the present Kendra must be dead by then. However, I don't know how it works with time travel. If present Kendra had died in 2166, does her timeline end in 2166 or in 2016?

I'm guessing future Carter's mind would have suffered a lot if Kendra had killed Savage, but so what? I doubt that every past life has been so great for either of them. This is yet one more Carter and when he dies, he'll come back in still another body. But if she doesn't kill Savage then both of them are doomed. The choice is hard but rather obvious, I should think.

[Frontier]

It would've been so much better if Sara could have been sent to kill Savage, I think she would have got the job done and had some great action scenes while doing it. But I gather that there are certain rules for how Savage can be killed and make it stick. I don't remember what those rules are, but I'm guessing Savage has to be killed by one or both of the Hawks and with one of those objects from when he first killed them.

That's exactly how it's been established on the show. Only the Hawks can kill Savage, and they have to use items connected to their past live to do it, and it has to be exactly connected to them. That's why Hawkman couldn't kill Savage with Chay-Ara's dagger.

I don't know about this other rule that the Hawks can't reincarnate until both of them have died, but surely with the future Carter, Kendra meeting him is like when she met her past self. At some point, Kendra is going to die again and then both she and Carter will be reincarnated. So 150 years in the future, the present Kendra must be dead by then. However, I don't know how it works with time travel. If present Kendra had died in 2166, does her timeline end in 2166 or in 2016?

I'm not sure if it's been outright stated in the show itself, but Guggenheim tweeted after Carter died in episode 2 that the Hawks only reincarnate after they've both died.

[kalorama]

Cassandra Savage switched sides awfully quickly.

I would think an immortal like Savage must have fathered a large number of children over the years.

Can they please kill Kendra off and reincarnate her as someone who doesn't make such stupid decisions?

The robot fight was good for a TV budget

Cassandra switched sides because Snart confirmed what she probably already knew in her heart but refused to let herself acknowledge . . . that her father was a genocidal madman. She'd never have flipped that quickly if she hadn't already been suppressing a mountain of doubt.

Savage probably has fathered a bunch of children over the years. But since, presumably, they aren't immortal like he is, by the time 2166 rolls around most of them are probably dead.

I think people are being a bit hard on Kendra. This is hardly the first time we've seen a hero choose love over duty. And remember, although the mission was, ostensibly, to "save the future" by killing Savage the real impetus for the whole thing was Rip's desire to save his family. So faced with a choice of letting her love die to save Rip's, she chose her own interests. Which, when you come right down to it, is no different than what Rip has been doing from day one.

The robot fight was pretty damn impressive for a TV budget. Going by the symbol on it's head and chest, I assume that it was built, in part, using technology based on Ray's Atom design, obtained when Savage got hold of one of the suit's components in an earlier episode (an advancement on the design of the robot police from the Per Degaton episode).

[Tofali]

I was really impressed with how Kendra wielded that mace. It is 1st fight scene that i have actually loved of the character. I re-watched it a couple of times

[The Darknight Detective]

Cassandra switched sides because Snart confirmed what she probably already knew in her heart but refused to let herself acknowledge . . . that her father was a genocidal madman. She'd never have flipped that quickly if she hadn't already been suppressing a mountain of doubt.

Savage probably has fathered a bunch of children over the years. But since, presumably, they aren't immortal like he is, by the time 2166 rolls around most of them are probably dead.

I think people are being a bit hard on Kendra. This is hardly the first time we've seen a hero choose love over duty. And remember, although the mission was, ostensibly, to "save the future" by killing Savage the real impetus for the whole thing was Rip's desire to save his family. So faced with a choice of letting her love die to save Rip's, she chose her own interests. Which, when you come right down to it, is no different than what Rip has been doing from day one.

The robot fight was pretty damn impressive for a TV budget. Going by the symbol on it's head and chest, I assume that it was built, in part, using technology based on Ray's Atom design, obtained when Savage got hold of one of the suit's components in an earlier episode (an advancement on the design of the robot police from the Per Degaton episode).

I agree on all counts. Very impressive episode all around.

[Jim Kelly]

I'm not usually one for wanting to see someone's head bashed in, but I was getting really pumped up when Kendra was swinging that mace and hoping she would beat the living daylights out of Vandal Savage. But maybe just because I can't stand the guy and it would put a quick end to our long national nightmare.

Casandra's zeal for revenge on her father fits with the passion of the newly converted. People won over to a cause seem to embrace it with a maddened fervour--maybe to overcompensate for their past sins.

I had to laugh when Ray said he was going to reverse the polarity. Another DOCTOR WHO reference.

[Sain]

Seeing Firestorm would have been great in this episode...but we see where the budget went this time around lol.

Savage's daughter is very nicely cold, makes sense giving what is brewing between her and the captain. I think her little 'show how strong I am by showing a multi vs 1 training scene' was cliché, so it came off extra cheesy to me, fights in all three of these shows are pretty tired to me as of late, with the exception of good moments here or there. For instance when Hawk went mace mode, there was a little window where right before she downed Savage for the first time the choreo was dope. A few scenes before it though, it was weak.

The CG robot fight was cool, and it was pretty solid for a TV show....but we know exactly why it was set at night, lol. Daytime would not help mask the limitations of the medium, but to their credit the lights of the atom suit obviously are super cool to look at during the dark than the day, same for the bot. Btw, that robo had the ill Tron Adidases.

Someone tell me if I'm missing something, would Hawkman's memories be gone or would he be vegetative? To me it just seemed like, him not remembering her was the worst that would happen. If so....that is what she chose over Rips family? Oh and lets rewind before that, lets go back to when she was guilding the mace. She had that false confidence before, why she is so sure she can beat Savage when she is still a fish out of water when it comes to fighting is beyond me. She is growing in combat, but it isn't always necessarily believable either. So I went through three steps of disgust with her in this episode lol, the 'I can beat savage' was the roll my eyes stage. The refrain from killing Savage was the I lost some respect for you stage. The 'we need to talk' placed her in the danger zone stage.

To address Hawk's actress's being on this show and her look, she is a noticeably bad actress, yes. Ever since the Flash tbh, I don't really dislike her for it, but it has always made her character weak to me. She is beautiful, stunning actually and even with her big teeth! They are no fault of her own, and if we notice it I am damn sure she has so we don't need to add to what is possibly one of her insecurities. That is all.

[Hypestyle]

I hope for more guest heroes in season 2. There's no excuse to go throughout the DC Universe, outside of whoever is "guaranteed" to be in the Justice League. It's too bad that Captain Marvel can't be a part of this.

[Jim Kelly]

Stein might have been out of commission, preventing Firestorm from going into action again, but I thought it was quite clever that the tables were reversed with Jax advising Ray what to do, much like Stein advising Jax. It made for some interesting character development.

[Basara]

I'm not sure if it's been outright stated in the show itself, but Guggenheim tweeted after Carter died in episode 2 that the Hawks only reincarnate after they've both died.

Guys, This is 150 years in the future. Even if Kendra lives to be an old woman after this time travel adventure, she will still eventually die. Thus: Welcome back Carter.

Are we missing the obvious here? Savage kept Carter alive instead of killing him. Does he have an ally amongst the Time Masters, or worse, is he a future member of the Time Masters Council? Why else would Savage keep Carter alive and close to him at this exact junction of time instead of killing him for the life energy that feeds his immortality? Is it because he knew the precise time Rip and the others would bring Kendra to him?

Or is this OOC for Savage, a bad plot device to give Kendra a moral dilemma at just the right point of the story? I'm hoping for Time Master ally (allies?) over bad writing.

Well, as Legend of Korra proved in seasons 2 and 4, if you're having a less than stellar season, the way to get the fans excited for your show again is to have a fight with giants at the end of the season. Damn, if this tactic doesn't work so well. I loved it. Way to go RAY!

[Kensei]

Like I said earlier I loved the giant robot fight too, but if they hadn't been going for spectacle wouldn't it have been more likely for Ray to shrink down as he always does and go inside the robot and sabotage it that way? Now there will probably be future situations that could be solved by him going giant and he won't do it.

[Frontier]

Like I said earlier I loved the giant robot fight too, but if they hadn't been going for spectacle wouldn't it have been more likely for Ray to shrink down as he always does and go inside the robot and sabotage it that way? Now there will probably be future situations that could be solved by him going giant and he won't do it.

Well, it appeared to take a lot to set it up and he needs to be near the Waverider to make it work, so I think they can come up with believable situations where he won't be able to grow giant even if it would obviously help against a big threat.

[Jim Kelly]

Like I said earlier I loved the giant robot fight too, but if they hadn't been going for spectacle wouldn't it have been more likely for Ray to shrink down as he always does and go inside the robot and sabotage it that way? Now there will probably be future situations that could be solved by him going giant and he won't do it.

I imagine this is what he does most of the time. I think the episode before it looked like he was killing some henchmen by going through them, but I saw it as him going into their CNS and incapacitating them.

But this FANTASTIC VOYAGE type story would be better used in an episode that would give it the full treatment. As in that B&B story where Ray went inside Batman's body, or that Avengers story with Ant-Man and Vision, or that 12th Doctor and Clara story--or a Green Lantern story I remember reading in 1967 where GL went inside the body of a giant, enemy alien (he also made himself giant-size to wrestle with the alien).