Tomorrow comes: Legends of Tomorrow

[Immortal Weapon]

This might come off as patronizing, but I genuinely feel sorry for the various posters that come on this thread or others to tell us that LEGENDS is not good. I respect that everyone has the right to an opinion and maybe other people have a frame of reference that doesn't allow them to enjoy the show. But it's just too bad that they can't.

The lastest episode was one of the most brilliant pieces of television and is wonderfully entertaining. I got so much joy from it and I wish that everyone could experience the same satisfaction.

Other than that I can't really respond to the negative commentors. It's not worth giving them attention.

Some times the zaniness of the show come at the expanse of the characters. Ray is suppose to be the smartest guy on the team and half the time he's too dumb to live. Nate is hurt by being a redundant character and this season feels like the writers forgot he has powers. I personally cannot stand Gary. I don't find characters with his level of ineptitude charming at all. The tone of show is why I been so against Constantine being apart of it. They will ruin him if they make him a regular.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

This might come off as patronizing, but I genuinely feel sorry for the various posters that come on this thread or others to tell us that LEGENDS is not good. I respect that everyone has the right to an opinion and maybe other people have a frame of reference that doesn't allow them to enjoy the show. But it's just too bad that they can't.

The lastest episode was one of the most brilliant pieces of television and is wonderfully entertaining. I got so much joy from it and I wish that everyone could experience the same satisfaction.

Other than that I can't really respond to the negative commentors. It's not worth giving them attention.

I must have missed the explanation, but how did Gideon have a body in the S.O.S?

[juan678]

[Kirby101]

I must have missed the explanation, but how did Gideon have a body in the S.O.S?

It was an alternative timeline, any one of us could come up with a scifi or magicy explanation, so it wasn't necessary. The Charlie's Angels spoof worked fine without over exposition.

[Kirby101]

I think there is plenty of character development with them. It's just within a fun context. Does a show have to have the angst of Arrow or dread of Flash for characters to grow.

Even this episode, which was no end of fun (Puppets of Tomorrow!!) John's end scenes were serious and heartbreaking as he realized he could not save Dez.

[Jim Kelly]

The characters in Legends are really well developed. In fact, that was at the heart of the last episode--how important each character is to their reality and how when you take any of them away the timeline goes to hell in a handbag. For all the screwy scenarios, you can work back to how these divergent timelines occurred. I can't say the same for the third part of Elseworlds. Not that it had to make sense, but Doctor D just seemed to go crazy with non-sensical fantasies that had no basis in the reality of the shows--it was still a good episode, but not as clearly thought out as "Legends of To-Meow-Meow" that pulled from all the developments in the previous episodes to deliver its heady concoction.

I don't want to speak for the negative commentors--like I said, I don't want to give them attention--but there's probably a legitimate argument to be made that the characters aren't how everyone wants them to be. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of character development on the show, just that it doesn't satisfy everyone. I can go along with that. In order to make all the characters work together in this group, some stuff from the comic books has to go. But I long ago realized this with all the CW shows and I don't really watch them to see the comic books on screen. I have no expectation that they will be the same.

[The Darknight Detective]

For me Legends is a lot like the Giffen DeMatteis run on Justice League fun and gave a nice jolt of life into the property but had a sad after effect that the premier team of the DC Universe got turned into a joke made up mostly of characters ranging from B to D listers for a decade and in meta commentary Ted Kord who character became defined by the run died at one point trying to get people to take him serious.

Legends started off as this series which took heroes others in the Arrowverse underestimated and was turning them into the heroes they could be while having some fun with premise of being a superhero time travel show. Now it seems the Zaniness is more important than growing the characters into the heroes they could be all through season one Ray was taking steps to grow now he seems content with getting into shenanigans with Nate or Mick. If Barry and Ollie ever did form the League characters like Atom, White Canary, Steel, Vixen, the Hawks, Firestorm, and Zari should be top recruits after the obvious Vibe, Killer Frost, Batwoman now, and modern Vixen but Legends feels like Ted Kord syndrome where they'd be like ok maybe Sara and possibly look up Firestorm and Hawks but be "What about Ragman?" with the rest type thing over looking at them because the characters aren't taken serious. Because of that the show becomes trusting to me and instead enjoying the zaniness I come to resent it.

That's the problem with the comedic turn for me, too. If they were brand-new characters, fine and dandy, but they're not. Now I can still enjoy it for what it is just like I did with the Adam West Batman, but, IMO, it isn't what I really want.

[Captain Smith]

I am in accord with the folks who think that it has become a clown college. John has put some gravitas in the show but that's about it. Mona (is that her name?) is the Jar-Jar of the show. What an idiotic character!

I doubt I will watch the show in detail anymore. If it all, I will watch it on fast forward to catch parts about John.

The show doesn't have to be entirely grim but it's just plain stupid.

[Jim Kelly]

Of the main cast, aren't the only truly DC characters left on the show Ray Palmer, Mick Rory, Nathan Heywood and John Constantine? Ray never was like the comic book Atom, even when he was on ARROW--in fact, I'd say current Ray is a little more like comic book Ray and not as much like Ted Kord as he used to be (plus I like Brandon Routh). Mick Rory is Heatwave if he had gone through all the time travel experiences that Mick's had. I never read much of Citizen Steel in the comics, but I'll guess that Nate is nothing like him and I'm okay with that. John Constantine is exactly like the comic book Constantine (moreso than Keanu Reeves), but he's been plucked from his loner existence and put on a time ship where he has to get along with everyone else or face the consequences.

With Constantine, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. The fans demanded Matt Ryan's Constantine come back and LEGENDS was the only show where he could get an ongoing role. Yet because Ryan has so well defined the character, he stands out in contrast with the rest of the team. However, I think they've done a pretty good job of addressing that in-story--and John's difficulties playing well with others has been a central theme for this season.

Of course, the other problem for LEGENDS OF TOMORROW is budgetary. If more people watched, it would get better ratings, CW would give the show more money, they could do more special effects and the characters could do the super-hero stuff like in the comics more often. But not enough people watch, so the producers have to work with what they get and they concentrate on entertaining stories that don't depend as much on special effects. But it's still one of the more heavy CW shows for CGI work.

[Immortal Weapon]

The characters in Legends are really well developed. In fact, that was at the heart of the last episode--how important each character is to their reality and how when you take any of them away the timeline goes to hell in a handbag. For all the screwy scenarios, you can work back to how these divergent timelines occurred. I can't say the same for the third part of Elseworlds. Not that it had to make sense, but Doctor D just seemed to go crazy with non-sensical fantasies that had no basis in the reality of the shows--it was still a good episode, but not as clearly thought out as "Legends of To-Meow-Meow" that pulled from all the developments in the previous episodes to deliver its heady concoction.

I don't want to speak for the negative commentors--like I said, I don't want to give them attention--but there's probably a legitimate argument to be made that the characters aren't how everyone wants them to be. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of character development on the show, just that it doesn't satisfy everyone. I can go along with that. In order to make all the characters work together in this group, some stuff from the comic books has to go. But I long ago realized this with all the CW shows and I don't really watch them to see the comic books on screen. I have no expectation that they will be the same.

I feel the development is undermine but how often the characters make the same mistakes. How many times is Ray gonna trust a snake because they fed him a sob story? How often is Zari gonna let her personal feelings get in the way of letting history play out properly? Why do Gary and Mona exist? It feels like this show is written like a sitcom far too much.

[Kirby101]

I feel the development is undermine but how often the characters make the same mistakes. How many times is Ray gonna trust a snake because they fed him a sob story? How often is Zari gonna let her personal feelings get in the way of letting history play out properly? Why do Gary and Mona exist? It feels like this show is written like a sitcom far too much.

The same could be said about the cast of Arrow and Flash. Same mistakes over and over.

[Jim Kelly]

It's really hard to say with Mona, because there was only one episode where she played an important part--and that was to bring Nora and Ava together--and now it'll be almost five months before we pick up her story again. I think if this was all there was to her, then I'd get tired of her. But I figure she was just being set up for a major change. Her injury, if she survives, will probably give her some kind of curse that makes her a monster, too. So playing up her bubbly personality now was probably to give a contrast for when she turns dark later.

[Scott Taylor]

I think there is plenty of character development with them. It's just within a fun context. Does a show have to have the angst of Arrow or dread of Flash for characters to grow.

Even this episode, which was no end of fun (Puppets of Tomorrow!!) John's end scenes were serious and heartbreaking as he realized he could not save Dez.

Yep, I felt they struck a balance. People are just emphasizing the fun aspects because they've gotten over the top. There are still plots and character development going on.

[Frontier]

Personally I kind of just miss when they used characters and concepts from the comics more to be honest.

At this point it almost feels like a DC show in-name-only.

[signalman112]

For the most part I agree with Jim Kelly.
I love the zany, anything goes, Silver Age like stories they are telling.

Love seeing a live version of Gideon. HUBBA-HUBBA!
Seems to me Ray Palmer in the opening scenes was paying homage to the Adam Cray ATOM that appeared in the 90's Suicide Squad series.

AdamCray.jpg