Tomorrow comes: Legends of Tomorrow

[Toreador]

That logic doesn't work when you have a weapon that can keep him frozen solid indefinitely until Kendra is ready to stab him to death with the magic plot device knife that only she can use. And the issue of not removing him from the timeline didn't matter last week when Carter was going to kill him but the plot device knife didn't work for him, it also didn't matter when Rip was going to kill him 4000 years in the past before he could do anything like influence every major leader and event in history.

It's probable that Rip's trip back the Egypt was soon after his wife and son was killed and wasn't thinking too clearly (and might have had a moment of clarity when he held the knife at Savage's throat and hesitated thinking what would happen if he erased Savage from history). The freezing is a good idea but Snart had already left and Rip might have been worried that more of Savage's cult will arrive soon and their back-up had left with Carter's body.

[90'sCartoonMan]

So Leonard Snart was a kid in the 70's? Does that mean he was born in the 60's? And Barry was born in 1990 or thereabouts. Wow, I didn't think there was such a huge age difference between them (although I guess it's probably not far from the actors themselves). At least they established that Lisa hadn't even been born yet, so she's closer to Cisco's age. I liked this side story we got with the Snart family, I hope they do go more into the idea that some things in history can't be changed. Although it's interesting to note, when Snart made that comment about history screwing with him, I remembered that his life actually had been changed by Eobard Thawne. If he hadn't gone back in time to kill Barry's mother and then needed to create the Flash sooner, Cisco wouldn't have made the cold gun when he, did and it wouldn't have fallen into Snart's hands at that moment in time (did Leonard Snart even become Captain Cold in the original timeline?).

It's good to see more of Rip in this episode and what drives him. Pairing him with Sara made sense because she's battling her own bloodlust. I also liked Stein guiding Atom's fantastic voyage inside Kendra, and Ray reiterates why he became the Atom in the first place.

Personally, I'd prefer they leave it ambiguous as to whether Superman and Batman met tragic ends, especially since Vandal Savage never comes into power until after they'd have died of natural causes anyway.

Superman may not be dead of natural causes by then, and we don't know for sure if that's actually Bruce Wayne as Batman, could be someone else. I liked that they slipped in the reference.

[Doctor Know]

^ Well the actor for Captain Cold is 43 years old. I know he doesn't look it, but he is.

[Frontier]

So Leonard Snart was a kid in the 70's? Does that mean he was born in the 60's? And Barry was born in 1990 or thereabouts. Wow, I didn't think there was such a huge age difference between them (although I guess it's probably not far from the actors themselves). At least they established that Lisa hadn't even been born yet, so she's closer to Cisco's age. I liked this side story we got with the Snart family, I hope they do go more into the idea that some things in history can't be changed. Although it's interesting to note, when Snart made that comment about history screwing with him, I remembered that his life actually had been changed by Eobard Thawne. If he hadn't gone back in time to kill Barry's mother and then needed to create the Flash sooner, Cisco wouldn't have made the cold gun when he, did and it wouldn't have fallen into Snart's hands at that moment in time (did Leonard Snart even become Captain Cold in the original timeline?).

Cold used to call Barry "kid" when they first fought, so I assume there was a sizable age gap between them. Then again, apparently everybody thinks Barry is younger then he actually is, going back to Arrow .

I did wonder before back in season one exactly what might have been the same regardless of Thawne's involvement. I think the Rogues becoming The Rogues probably still would've happened, because you can't have The Flash without his Rogues Gallery, but Thawne never really seemed to elaborate on how Snart related to Barry before the timeline changed. It could be that, if the cold gun was never designed, Snart became Captain Cold through the Particle Accelerator.

Though, as Wells, he once called Captain Cold Barry's "nemesis" for their second encounter, so that might have been a reference to either Snart being the first villain to really beat The Flash or what Cold was to Flash in the original timeline.

I'm still kinda surprised that Captain Cold and the Rogues apparently weren't enough of a big deal that removing them would do nothing to the timeline. I wonder if something in their adventures will inspire Snart to really form the Rogues like they are in the comics, and that's what makes him and Heat Wave a Legend?

[Matt]

The writing needs some work, even though I can see why the writers have chosen this direction.
Obviously, someone like Savage would need a lot of money to finance his efforts (as we found out last ep) and Hunter is correct that if you disrupt his finances then you'd at least delay his efforts.
We saw that Hunter can get his hands on a lot of wealth relatively easily ($60 million in coins? Nice.).
So set up a secret trust fund/foundation with that wealth working to cripple whatever financial dealings Savage and his cronies may attempt. Have Gideon scan stock markets and such to automatically do hostile takeovers of companies, controlling shares in organisations that launder his assets, etc. For future tech AI, this should be simplicity itself.

And while head on attacks that have essentially no prep put into them are great for the viewers, this is a tactic that has the least possible chance of actually succeeding. Even Barry Allen, a rank amateur at time travel, used that ability more effectively to defeat Savage than Hunter currently is. Hunter implies he saw Superman die. Great. So pick up him in the Waverider a couple of moments before this happens, explain the situation and suddenly and you have the most powerful being on the planet on your side to save the day ... and Superman IS someone who would willingly die to keep the timeline intact. Once the job is done, he would do his duty and die in the destined manner.

But then ... Hunter really is showing little in the ol' brains department so far. Lying to the people who he needs to trust him. Pissing off his own employers and so on. You're so desperate to kill Savage that you don't care about the timeline (as we saw)? So you attack a born warrior with a melee weapon instead of sniping him from kilometres away? Or killing Savages parents? Or smothering him in his crib? Or forcing him to have a lethal accident when he's an acne plagued teenager? Or simply ramming that pyramid with the Waverider, scorching the Earth for incalculable distances around?

[Matt]

I'm all for suspending disbelief, but this episode wrapped up very clumsily. They defeated Vandal Savage. And then they just left him there so they can defeat him again another day?! Just because he's immortal doesn't mean they couldn't at least restrain or contain him until Kendra was well enough to kill him herself. Seriously, it's just a major WTF.

Or dismembered his corpse and kept it, in seperate containers, aboard the Waverider before dumping said pieces in the Sun?
Because that would be an easy solution and they have to drag out the conflict for a few more seasons yet...

[Guy1]

Or dismembered his corpse and kept it, in seperate containers, aboard the Waverider before dumping said pieces in the Sun?
Because that would be an easy solution and they have to drag out the conflict for a few more seasons yet...

Yo.
Keep Cold there.
Have Cold freeze his dead body.
Break body into chunks.
Put them in boxes.
Freeze boxes.
Put boxes in the ship.
Take the ship into the timevoid.
Chuck the boxes out into the timevoid.
Have fun regenerating from that and living an immortal life in an empty void, Savage!

Too evil?

[Guy1]

The writing needs some work, even though I can see why the writers have chosen this direction.
Obviously, someone like Savage would need a lot of money to finance his efforts (as we found out last ep) and Hunter is correct that if you disrupt his finances then you'd at least delay his efforts.
We saw that Hunter can get his hands on a lot of wealth relatively easily ($60 million in coins? Nice.).
So set up a secret trust fund/foundation with that wealth working to cripple whatever financial dealings Savage and his cronies may attempt. Have Gideon scan stock markets and such to automatically do hostile takeovers of companies, controlling shares in organisations that launder his assets, etc. For future tech AI, this should be simplicity itself.

And while head on attacks that have essentially no prep put into them are great for the viewers, this is a tactic that has the least possible chance of actually succeeding. Even Barry Allen, a rank amateur at time travel, used that ability more effectively to defeat Savage than Hunter currently is. Hunter implies he saw Superman die. Great. So pick up him in the Waverider a couple of moments before this happens, explain the situation and suddenly and you have the most powerful being on the planet on your side to save the day ... and Superman IS someone who would willingly die to keep the timeline intact. Once the job is done, he would do his duty and die in the destined manner.

But then ... Hunter really is showing little in the ol' brains department so far. Lying to the people who he needs to trust him. Pissing off his own employers and so on. You're so desperate to kill Savage that you don't care about the timeline (as we saw)? So you attack a born warrior with a melee weapon instead of sniping him from kilometres away? Or killing Savages parents? Or smothering him in his crib? Or forcing him to have a lethal accident when he's an acne plagued teenager? Or simply ramming that pyramid with the Waverider, scorching the Earth for incalculable distances around?

Man, you should be writing this show.

[Matt]

One more thing I'm not quite getting is Hunter's sudden and burning need to have a team around him so he can deal with Savage.
Why?
We see Hunter defeat Savage twice. In the same episode.
The first time he hesitated when Savage was helpless then was restrained by guards. The second ended with Hunter defeating Savage on-on-one (more or less) and slicing his throat open.

Which, now that I think on it, only highlights the terrible fighting skills the two Hawks must have. Hunter seems to have no notable physical skills and a build that suggests he does little actual combat and he can defeat Savage in melee. Hawkman is killed and Hawkgirl swiftly defeated.

Edit: Really, the only team he needs is Hawkgirl to stick that knife in once Savage is prone (which we've seen Hunter do). What are the others around for? To make sure the Hawks don't get themselves killed again?
And even then, Hawkgirl is only necessary is you want to end Savage permanently instead of permanenly incapacitating him. Like the above chopping-him-up-and-dumping-him-somewhere-where-immortality-isn't-a-help-but-a-curse solutions.

[Doctor Know]

^ Probably selected a team to run interference and take the punches in the big battle scenes. Rip is really bad at this time master/time lord/ time agent thing. He's lucky he has a team, they've pulled his ass and each other out of the fire several times already and we're only on episode 3.

Honestly Captain Cold and White Canary should lead the team, but if they did the show would be over by now. Haha.

[Howard Allan]

Still hoping to see Booster Gold and Blue Beetle sometime during the series.

[adkal]

Still miffed that they're saying it's 1975 when it's clearly 1977

(I know, I know, 'alternate earths' and all that )

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Yeah, the Savage as a threat thing is hard to swallow when Rip defeated him and then they just left the body there. If they had given even a half-asses explanation that, if not killed by Kendra, he'd reappear somewhere else in the world when he died, then how tough beating him is would make sense.

[Matt]

If worse comes to worse, they could deal with Savage (at least for some time) by going down the old Jim Corrigan path - shove him in a barrel of cement and then dump him in the ocean. He'd be effectively unfindable by his cronies, he has no leverage to dig himself out of the cement while the pressure would be constantly killing him over and over and over...

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Still dunno how to feel about this, wayyyyyyyy to many plot points going on, one one of three was interesting and that was the Cold stuff. I feel like they need to get the entire team working together at once because frankly I am getting bored. Savage is a very lame threat, the actor is soooo bad.