Tomorrow comes: Legends of Tomorrow

[Frontier]

I do kind of have to wonder if Gumball was one of the Dominators who attacked the Earth last crossover...

Is there any major character in the Arrowverse who's mom isn't a very attractive woman ?

Y'know, getting to meet Ray's mom and see him reference his brother again, I wonder if we'll ever see them go into detail about Ray's dad? He was conspicuously not mentioned at all here.

You don't often get to see Mick admit to screwing up and actually feeling bad about it, but the expression on his face when he realized Stein was just trying to see the birth of his grandchild spoke wonders.

I liked the touch of naming the grandson "Ronnie," especially since the impact Ronnie had on Professor Stein has generally been left unsaid ever since Jax came onboard, though it does make me wonder if the child being named after him means Ronnie was pretty close to Lilly prior to his death.

I also wonder if it's a coincidence they named Stein's grandchild after the original Firestorm when it looks like Stein will have to leave and Jax will need a new partner? Not that I expect the team's attempts to break up Firestom is going to end well...

We hardly ever see the all the Legends in their Superhero costumes in one episode, so it was nice to see them all sporting them at the end there with little Ray (I think this is the first time we've seen Amaya in her Vixen costume all season).

Zari doesn't strike me as the type for costumes so it was nice to at least see her in the classic Isis look for one brief moment .

Zari possibly being nicknamed "Zee" reminds me how some people thought she was Zatanna on the "Crisis on Earth-X" poster...

I am also a little surprised at the way the show made a bit effort to show Ray as a "loser" as a kid considering when we met him in Arrow he was a multimillion or billionaire, pretty jacked (doing the same type of excercises Ollie does) and formerly happily married to his wife of (presumably) many years. Wonder when and if they'll ever mention his wife again and explore his story as such. He's aside from stein the only one on the team who ever got married, that we know of.

Anna was Ray's fiance. I don't think they were married before that Deathstroke soldier killed her.

[Jim Kelly]

So it was two truths and a lie, right? Was "Zee" the lie?

It doesn't make much sense that Lily would name her son after Ronnie Raymond--unless he was important to her. Maybe there was another Ronald in her life, so the name pays tribute to more than one person.

I think Gumball is being set up for a future appearance. Which would probably mean he wasn't in the Invasion. Maybe stayed out of it intentionally because of his experience with young Ray. Could be a whole group of anti-Dominators led by Gumball.

I liked Maisie Richardson-Sellers last season, but I think she's even better this season. She really plays that whistfulness well.

[Jekyll]

As a HUGE Ray Palmer and Brandon Routh fan.......BEST EPISODE OF LEGENDS EVER!

[Frontier]

So it was two truths and a lie, right? Was "Zee" the lie?

Ray seemed to just assume the "have never seen a musical" was the lie, but I don't think Zari ever confirmed one way or the other.

It doesn't make much sense that Lily would name her son after Ronnie Raymond--unless he was important to her. Maybe there was another Ronald in her life, so the name pays tribute to more than one person.

That's why I have to assume she knew Ronnie in the timeline where she exists.

[feenix219]

Ray seemed to just assume the "have never seen a musical" was the lie, but I don't think Zari ever confirmed one way or the other.


That's why I have to assume she knew Ronnie in the timeline where she exists.

Zelda was a lie. Z loves musicals.

[feenix219]

The thing that bugged me about the Stein plot is that time travel means there is no real problem for Martin. They can all return to 2017 at the exact point when Lilly has her baby. This is the kind of silly premise frequently given in time travel shows, but I found it especially annoying here, because Stein should know better.

However, the episode felt like it had a few cuts. So maybe there was more to the story than we saw. There's an odd jump, where suddenly everyone who was in 2017 (Stein, Jax and Rory) are now back in the '80s on Hallowe'en night, without any exposition to cover how they got back in time to be there.

I can accept this kind of daft plot--especially on LOT--just as long as they cover it with some pseudo-science. For instance, we saw that Ray was at risk of disappearing from the timeline, but that it hadn't yet become a fixed fact. So that could have caused Martin's whole dilemma with Lily. If there's a true fear that time itself can always get rewritten--it's vital to Martin to get there to 2017, to see his grandchild, so he can retain the memory and not lose them.

But Martin might have also created a temporal quandary by communicating with Lily in 2017--that itself might have made it impossible for him to go back to the period of her pregnancy in 2017 without messing up the timeline he had already established with her, through their communications. For both of them that had already happened, so by going back to any point prior to the granchld's birth, Stein could have butterfly effected those events.

Thats a great point. I just figured he didn't want to age while gone and come back to being (relatively older) then he should be to everyone around him. I also made the joke that he invented the 2 way communication device that the show Frequency's radio is based on. Haha.

[Jim Kelly]

Thats a great point. I just figured he didn't want to age while gone and come back to being (relatively older) then he should be to everyone around him. I also made the joke that he invented the 2 way communication device that the show Frequency's radio is based on. Haha.

Someone on Reddit posted a similar theory to my temporal quandary theory that communicating with Lily was actually the thing that created the time crunch in the first place. That makes sense with what we see on the show. Martin would be embarassed and not want to admit to the other Legends that he had created a temporal anomaly by communicating with his daughter--thus the reason he wanted to sneak away.

Anyway, I'm just going to assume that's what it was and put my mind at rest.

[Midvillian1322]

Zelda was a lie. Z loves musicals.

Yea according to ray zelda was the lie. And she didnt do anything to suggest he was wrong. I think ray is gonna get some action

[Frontier]

Y'know, in that final scene with rest of the Legends in their costumes...what happened to Mick's Heat Wave outfit? The one with the goggles?

[90'sCartoonMan]

Wow, ET with a Dominator? Somehow it worked. Nate's attraction to Ray's mom was funny, and I thought Mick was going to set those bullies on fire. Lily gave birth already, eh? I didn't think she was that far along considering Jax just found out, but, well, time travel and all. Guess the father really didn't matter (unless his last name is "Raymond" somehow).

I love Ray, he tries so hard to connect with people, and now we know why. I love how he had to bribe Mick to do the trust fall.

I would like to see Anansi appear (portrayed or voiced by Orlando Jones, of course) and explains he is the one who really created the Tantu totem, and it is not at all related to the other totems; it was a story he created to protect the Tantu totem. Anansi told his story many times until humans forgot the real origin, and accept Anansi's story as the truth.

That would be crazy to see Orlando Jones voice Anansi. Then again, Delirium did appear in American Gods, so there's at least some DC connection there.

I am also a little surprised at the way the show made a bit effort to show Ray as a "loser" as a kid considering when we met him in Arrow he was a multimillion or billionaire, pretty jacked (doing the same type of excercises Ollie does) and formerly happily married to his wife of (presumably) many years.

Nerdy loser kid grows up to use his smarts to get rich in the tech industry? Makes sense to me.

I liked the touch of naming the grandson "Ronnie," especially since the impact Ronnie had on Professor Stein has generally been left unsaid ever since Jax came onboard, though it does make me wonder if the child being named after him means Ronnie was pretty close to Lilly prior to his death.

That must have been it. We don't really know what Lily's life was considering she didn't exist until Stein interacted with his younger self. Then again, the Arrowverse does love naming kids after dead people. So Joe, what are you and Cecile naming your child? HR if it's a boy, Samantha if it's a girl?

[Jackalope89]

Wow, ET with a Dominator? Somehow it worked. Nate's attraction to Ray's mom was funny, and I thought Mick was going to set those bullies on fire. Lily gave birth already, eh? I didn't think she was that far along considering Jax just found out, but, well, time travel and all. Guess the father really didn't matter (unless his last name is "Raymond" somehow).

I love Ray, he tries so hard to connect with people, and now we know why. I love how he had to bribe Mick to do the trust fall.



That would be crazy to see Orlando Jones voice Anansi. Then again, Delirium did appear in American Gods, so there's at least some DC connection there.



Nerdy loser kid grows up to use his smarts to get rich in the tech industry? Makes sense to me.



That must have been it. We don't really know what Lily's life was considering she didn't exist until Stein interacted with his younger self. Then again, the Arrowverse does love naming kids after dead people. So Joe, what are you and Cecile naming your child? HR if it's a boy, Samantha if it's a girl?

Nah, they'll name the baby, if its a boy, Eobard.

[Osiris-Rex]

Nah, they'll name the baby, if its a boy, Eobard.

Why not Eddie?

[Jim Kelly]

I would have said Nora or Henry. But it's probably going to be Daniel, to tie in with the comic books.

[Guardian]

I understand Martin's problem in the long term. And I wish they would have the characters talk more about how they are aging and the consequences of going back to their original timelines.

But the problem in this episode was that Martin made it seem like something that was happening any second now. That his daughter was going to have her baby at any minute. But that wasn't true for him, because he's on the Waverider. So he could have waited a day until after the situation with Ray was resolved and then gone back to 2017 in time for his grandchild to be born. The time crunch made no sense the way they set it up.

Stein leaving the Waverirder on a permanent basis to live out his life, that makes sense to me. Because that's a question of months and years, not minutes and days.

I agree 100% to everything you wrote here. It is just silly how they made id feel like he would miss the birth... How can he miss it when they can jump to every time there ever was and is? They can get everything done and then he can just jump to the birth and everything is ok. This is exactly the kind of dumb thing I start to resent with the CW shows. They "dumb down" a lot of heroes because otherwise there would be no plot and they do things like the birth which makes no sense at all.

Also, why would he want to see the birth "in real time"? There is no real time... There is just time. When you have a jump ship you can jump to every point in time. So how could that be a race or how could they be so worried they would miss it? It just makes no sense and it in fact bad writing.

[PyroTwilight]

Nerdy loser kid grows up to use his smarts to get rich in the tech industry? Makes sense to me.

Well yeah. If he was treated as a normal nerd etc... it would've made more sense but Arrow set him up as a balanced individual as opposed to a typical nerd character. It always feels like they're trying to devolve Ray's character when he should be one of the most powerful and effective on the team.