Hawkman questions

[comicstar100]

So after watching the pilot to the Legends of Tomorrow I got to thinking about how little I actually know about Hawkman from the comics. I'm curious what was the original interpretation, the reincarnation idea or Thanagar? Also what are some of his best stories?

[Doctor Know]

So after watching the pilot to the Legends of Tomorrow I got to thinking about how little I actually know about Hawkman from the comics. I'm curious what was the original interpretation, the reincarnation idea or Thanagar? Also what are some of his best stories?

The original Hawkman and Hawkgirl (Carter and Sheira) were reincarnations.

The Silver Age Hawks and the Post-Crisis Hawkworld Katar and Shayera were from Thanagar.

Kendra came along during 1999 JSA under Geoff Johns. She is the grandniece of Shiera (the original).

As for best stories, give me a second. I have to look at my collection.

[kingaliencracker]

So after watching the pilot to the Legends of Tomorrow I got to thinking about how little I actually know about Hawkman from the comics. I'm curious what was the original interpretation, the reincarnation idea or Thanagar? Also what are some of his best stories?

The reincarnation of the Egyptian prince is the original, Golden Age origin of Hawkman. The Thanagarian Hawkman came in the 60's. Post-Crisis there have been various attempts to explain the connection between Carter Hall and Katar Hol, with varying degrees of success.

My favorite Hawkman stories are:

Hawkworld
JSA #22-25 (The Return of Hawkman)
Hawkman (2002 Series) #1-25
Rann/Thanagar War

[Doctor Know]

Ok you want to look at:

Hawkman Shadow War

Hawkworld: Miniseries and full series

JSA #22-25 and Hawkman Vol 4 #1-25. Geoff Johns did a lot to clear up the mythos and continuity problems regarding the Hawks.
Hawkman and Hawkgirl would make further appearances on JSA and the Hawkman (later Hawkgirl title) but the above (vol 4) is a good start for a beginner.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

Tim Truman's Hawkworld. Truman reimagines the origin of the Silver Age Hawkman mythos. Thanagar, once the pinnacle of achievement in art, science, and culture, has now become decadent, cynical, and corrupt. The story takes you right up to moment the Hawks decide to leave the nest and venture to earth.

[Bruce Wayne]

The original Silver Age of Thanagar I think is better captured in the comics penciled by Joe Kubert. The last one was in the Joe Kubert Presents #1, a series he did for DC before his death.

Edit: The early ones including the origin story of the Silver Age Hawkman scripted with Gardener Fox included Brave and the Bold 34-36 & 42-44 and Detective Comics 500.

[batnbreakfast]

This nice man has all your answers

http://community.comicbookresources....-And-WHY/page4

[Hawkman]

This nice man has all your answers

http://community.comicbookresources....-And-WHY/page4

Thanks for the plug, batnbreakfast.

I think your questions have all be pretty well answered already, comicstar100, but to the reading list I would add Legend of the Hawkman, which is one of my favorites, as well as give a nod the remaining issues (#26-49) of Hawkman Vol. 4, which were written by Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti. The series is really just as strong, in my opinion, as it was under Geoff Johns, and the final issues bring about a decent (albeit not necessarily resolute) sense of closure to both the characters and series.

Hope that helps, and I'm glad to hear that DC's Legends of Tomorrow piqued your interest in Hawkman a bit. Perhaps if more people start to show a similar level of interest, it will get DC to devote some much-needed attention to Hawkman and Hawkgirl both in the near future.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Kendra came along during 1999 JSA under Geoff Johns. She is the grandniece of Shiera (the original).

Who, it turned out, committed suicide and was essentially possessed by the spirit of the original - who, none the less, had Kendra's memories (and her own buried deep down inside - shortly before she was introduced as a character.

Which I thought was one of the creepiest and least pleasant takes on the character I could imagine. I know people are constantly saying "old readers don't like change" - but I was perfectly ready for the Hawks (who were the GA versions, essentially, and who I loved as characters) to die quietly of old age after a lifetime of loving marriage, and be replaced by younger versions - relatives, if need be. I liked Kendra as Kendra, not as "she's really Shiera and Carter has to convince her, against great resistance, that they're in love and belong together." (We're getting that on Legends of Tomorrow, too, and I think it has a really stalkerish vibe. But then I hate the character of Hawkman on that show - and the version in The New 52 as well. And I'm a Hawkman fan....)

[Doctor Know]

Who, it turned out, committed suicide and was essentially possessed by the spirit of the original - who, none the less, had Kendra's memories (and her own buried deep down inside - shortly before she was introduced as a character.

Which I thought was one of the creepiest and least pleasant takes on the character I could imagine. I know people are constantly saying "old readers don't like change" - but I was perfectly ready for the Hawks (who were the GA versions, essentially, and who I loved as characters) to die quietly of old age after a lifetime of loving marriage, and be replaced by younger versions - relatives, if need be. I liked Kendra as Kendra, not as "she's really Shiera and Carter has to convince her, against great resistance, that they're in love and belong together." (We're getting that on Legends of Tomorrow, too, and I think it has a really stalkerish vibe. But then I hate the character of Hawkman on that show - and the version in The New 52 as well. And I'm a Hawkman fan....)

Yeah... Idk what Johns was thinking when he came up with that story for Kendra. The same thing can be said about Johns' attempt to retcon Hawk (Hank Hall) of ever being Monarch and Extant. Instead of becoming Monarch and killing Dove; both Hawk and Dove were transported to a magical realm, where Mordru mind controlled Hawk to rape Dove and get her pregnant, so she would give birth to Hector Hall (no relation) the new Doctor Fate. Hector Hall being the reincarnated son of Hawkman and Hawkgirl (Carter and Sheira). As you can imagine the whole Hawk and Dove being Dr. Fate's parents didn't really pan out the way Johns thought it would and it was never brought up again afterwards.

[Bruce Wayne]

Actually it did. He even explained it right in this forum when PoD came out. But it ties in with the original run of Hawk & Dove by the Kessels where there were hints near the end that a potential child of theirs being important to order/chaos. The entire deal with the new Dr. Fate having the soul of Hawkman's kid and created from Hawk and Dove tied into making the penultimate version of Dr. Fate by Nabu. And what he did with Hawk/Dove ultimately fixed the characters after DC screwed them (and killed Dove) for the sake of Armaggedon 2001.

[Doctor Know]

Actually it did. He even explained it right in this forum when PoD came out. But it ties in with the original run of Hawk & Dove by the Kessels where there were hints near the end that a potential child of theirs being important to order/chaos. The entire deal with the new Dr. Fate having the soul of Hawkman's kid and created from Hawk and Dove tied into making the penultimate version of Dr. Fate by Nabu. And what he did with Hawk/Dove ultimately fixed the characters after DC screwed them (and killed Dove) for the sake of Armaggedon 2001.

What is PoD? I'm bad with abbreviations.

I would say what Johns was aiming for was better than what we got in Armageddon 2001, and later with Extant murdering the JSA in Zero Hour. But making Hank Hall and unwilling rapist and Dove undergo a pregnancy forced on her by Mordru, is stretching things a lot. We're supposed to like Hawk, but he always ends up unlikable. Dove is supposed to be a teenager, and yet pregnancy and being the "mother" of her fellow team mates (Carter and Sheira) son reincarnate is all sorts of icky. Johns could've easily gone the Mr Sinister route and had Mordru take the genetic material from Hank and Dawn, and try to birth the new Dr. Fate with his magic. Bringing Dove back could still be accomplished with wibbly, wobbly timey wimey magic mechanics as well.

[Bruce Wayne]

But making Hank Hall and unwilling rapist and Dove undergo a pregnancy forced on her by Mordru, is stretching things a lot.

Because Hawk becoming Monarch and murdering members of the JSA in ZH under the influence of Mordru was so much better than rape?

Johns could've easily gone the Mr Sinister route and had Mordru take the genetic material from Hank and Dawn, and try to birth the new Dr. Fate with his magic.

That sounds great for Mr. Sinister. Not so much for a magic villain that was disembodied energy until the start of JSA.

[Doctor Know]

Because Hawk becoming Monarch and murdering members of the JSA in ZH under the influence of Mordru was so much better than rape?

Mind controlled rape, mind you. They could've side-stepped that part all together. Neither Armageddon or the Johns JSA retcon make Hawk look heroic or tragic. That's the point I'm trying to make.

That sounds great for Mr. Sinister. Not so much for a magic villain that was disembodied energy until the start of JSA.

Well anything is possible when magic is involved. Mordru wasn't a JSA villain until Johns made him one. Meaning Johns was free to write his own ticket with his iteration of the character.


Also what is PoD?

[Bruce Wayne]

Mind controlled rape, mind you. They could've side-stepped that part all together. Neither Armageddon or the Johns JSA retcon make Hawk look heroic or tragic.

Hawk getting mind controlled and corrupted by Mordru fits the latter. I'm not sure how it doesn't.

Well anything is possible when magic is involved. Mordru wasn't a JSA villain until Johns made him one.

The credits for the first four issues of JSA are by Goyer/Robinson not by Johns/Goyers. So making Mordru the central villain was not up to him, but clearly the backstory for Hector was his idea and making it Doves resolves the whole dangling issue of the identity of the comatose woman that gives birth to Hector while dovetailing into loose plot thread from Hawk/Dove.