If The DC Rebirth Is a Reboot, What Concepts Do You Want In Place For Wonder Woman & Her Wolrd?

[companion]

I like the Arrowverse a lot but it's too soon to say if I'll like the cinematic version of Wonder Woman or not. I would just be happy if DC retconned everything from "The Odyssey" storyline until present. No Cheetah and Giganta as Amazons,

The whole Odyssey storyline is some alternative universe type of thing that's not any part of Pre or Post New 52 continuity. It was alreafdy retconned at the end of the Odyssey storyline.

[Carabas]

exactly, to make it easy to digest the way things worked at that period take troy as an example, agammenon sacrificed (slayed) his own daugther for the sake of power using helena's affair as an excuse to wage war and expand his domains

But 21st century people who live in that area have progressed somewhat since that time, and a lot of what we like about our civilisation we trace back to the ancient Greeks.

Saying 21st century Amazons should act like bronze age savages, including their tech level, because that's what they were 3000 years ago, is a frelling huge logical error. Because no other society on earth is even what they were 100 years ago.

[Outside_85]

But 21st century people who live in that area have progressed somewhat since that time, and a lot of what we like about our civilisation we trace back to the ancient Greeks.

Saying 21st century Amazons should act like bronze age savages, including their tech level, because that's what they were 3000 years ago, is a frelling huge logical error. Because no other society on earth is even what they were 100 years ago.

Difference though is that no other advanced society lived through those 3000 years in complete isolation with largely the very same people who actually lived those 3000 years.

Regarding technology... thats something thats hugely dependent on exposure. Like if no one had ever made contact with China, the western world wouldn't have had things like gun powder. Like if you look at the pre-Columbian civilizations in America, they lived pretty much in their own little world and without much of the drama the western world went through, untill the western world arrived and made all the drama needed to make them all collapse.

[dshipp17]

First of all, can. Wonder woman stop being the god of war and go back to being an ambassador of peace?
Can DC also understand the difference between training a civilisation to defend themselves, and a race of blood thirsty warriors
Let's pretend the superman/wonder woman thing never happened
Less focus on the Greek mythology, more focus on Diana the super hero
Her classic rouges gallery

I agree with all except 2 slightly; they only want to train women how to defend themselves out of bitterness from flaws in each of their personal judgment in choosing a significant other, to blame all men as a whole. I don't see why the god of war angle is still persisting, given that Ares is back and Wonder Woman didn't want the role; and, yes, they need to discard this heavy focus on the Greek mythology and focus on her classic rogues, changing emphasis from Greek mythology to an emphasis on Dr. Psycho, with rotations on some of the other classic rogues, as stand along issues, or, teaming with Dr. Psycho; in building a sort of Legion of Doom, they can bring in Veronica Cale to partner with Dr. Psycho, to lead the legion with Cheetah, Giganta, Circe, Silver Swan, Inversion, Anti-Electric, Angle Man, current Dr. Poison, etc. If DC is not planning to do these things, but, instead, doubling down on the emphasis on the Greek mythology, as a previous poster said, than making this announcement and renumbering is an exercise in futility and a waste of time; just name the next issue 53, stay on this sinking ship, and shed readers; the only reason to renumber would be plans to introduce Dr. Psycho; if not, given that Finch already seems to be every rogue but Psycho, just name the next issue 53.

[Agniwolf]

Difference though is that no other advanced society lived through those 3000 years in complete isolation with largely the very same people who actually lived those 3000 years.

Regarding technology... thats something thats hugely dependent on exposure. Like if no one had ever made contact with China, the western world wouldn't have had things like gun powder. Like if you look at the pre-Columbian civilizations in America, they lived pretty much in their own little world and without much of the drama the western world went through, untill the western world arrived and made all the drama needed to make them all collapse.

it is like im banging my head on a fortress wall, people didnt get that if the groups isolates themselves they become stagnated through time, i even exemplified the medieval times that stagnated for a thousand yers, with little changes here and there,that was bronken because of the crusades (external force). the amazons were isolated with no external forces whatsoever. there is no need to change <- and that is the whole point the NEED to change

need to talk to someone that lives far away: create the postal service, need to talk quickly with someone far away: create the telegraph, need to talk on the spot with the same person: create the telephone and so the list goes on with the society and interations changing around their necessities

obs: i reread my post and it is like i disagree to yours, but it is the oposite, im agreeing and trying to complement ^^

[Gaelforce]

it is like im banging my head on a fortress wall, people didnt get that if the groups isolates themselves they become stagnated through time, i even exemplified the medieval times that stagnated for a thousand yers, with little changes here and there,that was bronken because of the crusades (external force). the amazons were isolated with no external forces whatsoever. there is no need to change <- and that is the whole point the NEED to change

need to talk to someone that lives far away: create the postal service, need to talk quickly with someone far away: create the telegraph, need to talk on the spot with the same person: create the telephone and so the list goes on with the society and interations changing around their necessities

obs: i reread my post and it is like i disagree to yours, but it is the oposite, im agreeing and trying to complement ^^

I respectfully disagree in regards to the Amazons 'stagnating.'

If they were a completely isolated culture, I'd agree...to a point (immortals who may possibly be counselled by gods who are keeping up with the outside world are tricky to compare to entire civilizations, not to mention there are muses who aren't worshipped outside of the Amazons and possibly the Atlanteans...)

They aren't isolated. Hippolyta mentioned taking a weekend sojourn with Diana to the outside world in the Annual, and the Amazons come in contact the outside world a minimum of three times a century. They also have a library that, if I recall correctly, made references to the outside world (assuming Amazons bring back books on raids?) That's enough for them to see advancements in clothing, food preservation/refrigeration, weaponry, transportation methods, radio, sonar, etc.

The idea that there aren't any Amazons who would look at any of these new things and not think 'this might come in handy' is a bit appalling to me. They train for war, so anything that might give them an advantage would be explored. They have Doom's Doorway (shown in Superman/WW) so anything that might give them an edge there would have been looked into. Communication is a huge thing that the outside world has made incredible advancements in and that would be readily seen - from basic radios to satellite phones to electric lights as signals. Guns? Tell me that there wouldn't be Amazons who would love an efficient way to kill.

They aren't completely isolated, and despite the fact that in the nu52 we've pretty much only seen warrior Amazons, someone built their homes, cooks their food, tends their sick and injured. New bandages, medicines, food and materials to preserve it (foil, plastic bags), better tools (ships have toolkits), cell phones...there are so many things that the Amazons have access to (Diana is in her early 20s and Aleka is about her age, so the last raid would have been in the 90s)

They have homes they live in - now they see advanced building techniques and materials.

Add to that the culture - the art, the writings, the music. Basic photography. Ballpoint pens. Notebooks.

So many things to make their lives, even if those lives are just all about war and killing, easier and/or more efficient, not to mention there have to be *some* Amazons that are bored with living in isolation who are looking for something new.

All of this is just assuming that there are *only* 3x/century raids, but again, Hippolyta offered to take Diana out into man's world for the weekend. Clearly there is access if she chooses it, and nothing that says Amazons don't venture out from time to time.

They have the need (war, Doom's Doorway), they have the time and, I would like to think, at least some of them have the curiosity/ingenuity to want to advance their civilization.

[brettc1]

But 21st century people who live in that area have progressed somewhat since that time, and a lot of what we like about our civilisation we trace back to the ancient Greeks.

Saying 21st century Amazons should act like bronze age savages, including their tech level, because that's what they were 3000 years ago, is a frelling huge logical error. Because no other society on earth is even what they were 100 years ago.

On the other hand, the Indigenous populations of Australia and some of the Solomon Islans were still using Stone Age technology up until the 1800s. That's thousands of years without developing Bronze Age tools. The Aztecs and Mayans were in much the same situation.

It is not, in fact, unprecedented.

[Tayswift]

On the other hand, the Indigenous populations of Australia and some of the Solomon Islans were still using Stone Age technology up until the 1800s. That's thousands of years without developing Bronze Age tools. The Aztecs and Mayans were in much the same situation.

It is not, in fact, unprecedented.

Aztec and Mayans were pretty advanced.

the greek culture were much more advanced than stone age, so build up from that is very non-brainer. Specially that amazons doesn't have wars outside and inside.

[Agniwolf]

I respectfully disagree in regards to the Amazons 'stagnating.'

If they were a completely isolated culture, I'd agree...to a point (immortals who may possibly be counselled by gods who are keeping up with the outside world are tricky to compare to entire civilizations, not to mention there are muses who aren't worshipped outside of the Amazons and possibly the Atlanteans...)

They aren't isolated. Hippolyta mentioned taking a weekend sojourn with Diana to the outside world in the Annual, and the Amazons come in contact the outside world a minimum of three times a century. They also have a library that, if I recall correctly, made references to the outside world (assuming Amazons bring back books on raids?) That's enough for them to see advancements in clothing, food preservation/refrigeration, weaponry, transportation methods, radio, sonar, etc.

The idea that there aren't any Amazons who would look at any of these new things and not think 'this might come in handy' is a bit appalling to me. They train for war, so anything that might give them an advantage would be explored. They have Doom's Doorway (shown in Superman/WW) so anything that might give them an edge there would have been looked into. Communication is a huge thing that the outside world has made incredible advancements in and that would be readily seen - from basic radios to satellite phones to electric lights as signals. Guns? Tell me that there wouldn't be Amazons who would love an efficient way to kill.

They aren't completely isolated, and despite the fact that in the nu52 we've pretty much only seen warrior Amazons, someone built their homes, cooks their food, tends their sick and injured. New bandages, medicines, food and materials to preserve it (foil, plastic bags), better tools (ships have toolkits), cell phones...there are so many things that the Amazons have access to (Diana is in her early 20s and Aleka is about her age, so the last raid would have been in the 90s)

They have homes they live in - now they see advanced building techniques and materials.

Add to that the culture - the art, the writings, the music. Basic photography. Ballpoint pens. Notebooks.

So many things to make their lives, even if those lives are just all about war and killing, easier and/or more efficient, not to mention there have to be *some* Amazons that are bored with living in isolation who are looking for something new.

All of this is just assuming that there are *only* 3x/century raids, but again, Hippolyta offered to take Diana out into man's world for the weekend. Clearly there is access if she chooses it, and nothing that says Amazons don't venture out from time to time.

They have the need (war, Doom's Doorway), they have the time and, I would like to think, at least some of them have the curiosity/ingenuity to want to advance their civilization.

following this logic i can also agree to a certain point
first the constuction could be made by slaves from the raids (again, slavery was common by the time of their exodus, and even in our society was only abolished at the begining of the 20th century)

2nd, apart from the gods themselves i didnt see any firearms amazon (i may be wrong, but i really didnt see) and that could be attributed to magic, remember that the patriarch world deviated from magic with the cientific revolution (end of medieval, start of rennaissance) and that is a huge diference, even the gods themselves use divine pools instead of drones for example. so i could see a grand advance through magi science like a magical refrigerator, or a void of time to preserve food, they could even have adquired some other god artifact through the raids, like dagda's caldron of infinite food. that i would call the mystical revolution

3rd lets not forget that our own cientist through history were accused for heresy or madness and were persecuted by the inquisition, imagine a totally religious nation saying that the mystic things they lived with were lies

4th even if they got a radio it would be hard (but not impossible) to operate without proper training, assuming if the raided men were enslaved for a time before being slain taught them about it

yes i can agree that all of this could have been incorporated into their society without it being this way, and i can assume to my claim to being wrong if so, but that is my view within the way the original helenic culture worked. because if they really incorporated such things, the cultural, tecnological and industrial revolution would have reached them at some point in the past. and we saw that many things relatable to the bronze age firm within their culture

but again it would be nice to see more tecno magic craftings, cause that we all saw that was in their realm of abilities

but yes i can totally see them raiding cargo ships and acquiring books, and would be awesome to see a mechanized cavalry (read as tank pilots) in the amazon ranks

[Agniwolf]

Aztec and Mayans were pretty advanced.

the greek culture were much more advanced than stone age, so build up from that is very non-brainer. Specially that amazons doesn't have wars outside and inside.

the thing is war is a really great advance motivator, it is cause of war that we have emergency medicinne (first aid), it is cause of war that we have the metal bending tecnology, it is cause of war that we are here discussing our views of the rights and wrongs of the ww mythos in this forum

[Stanlos]

But 21st century people who live in that area have progressed somewhat since that time, and a lot of what we like about our civilisation we trace back to the ancient Greeks.

Saying 21st century Amazons should act like bronze age savages, including their tech level, because that's what they were 3000 years ago, is a frelling huge logical error. Because no other society on earth is even what they were 100 years ago.

I am twirling and clanging my bracelets in salute, Carabas! It is bizarre that this just keeps being the GoTo depiction for people even though her design like totally says that they are extraordinarily advanced. It might even say they are the most advanced. I can't check right now but it really puzzles me that the Azz's of the world want to do backwards-savages-in-mud-huts. I feel that is another symptom of their resisting the character's design and reasserting Patriarchal notions.

If they do go the IMO unimaginative route I hope that the future will deliver some Elseworlds that really celebrate her design.

[JaggedFel]

True but you also gotta factor in magic how much incentive is there to really develop tech when you got magic (I suppose it depends on how prevalent and accessible it is for Amazons).

[NYCER]

Evidently quite easily. Donna Troy is proof of such access to magic.

[Pamp_Lusa]

Well every time something comes up in Themyscira that require them to fight, Amazons perish by the dozens, clearly they could use some military tech to help them with that, in fact it was their castaway sons' contraptions that ultimately saved their bacon, and the purple ray, which now belongs to Orion, saved Wonder Woman's.

[brettc1]

Aztec and Mayans were pretty advanced.

the greek culture were much more advanced than stone age, so build up from that is very non-brainer. Specially that amazons doesn't have wars outside and inside.

In some areas yes. But in many they were no further along than the Ancient Greeks, centuries behind.

The lack of war is, sadly, a hinderance, since many such advances come from it. You also need a certain cultural mindset which perhaps the Amazons lacked. And finally there has to be a need to advance. Capatilsm drives most advances of the last 200 years but the Amazons don't have that system.