The 5 Best (and 5 Worst) Re-Imaginings of Wonder Woman's Origin

[Darius]

I'm not ignoring that Ares acknowledged the Amazons as quality warriors* that taught Diana well. But the story emphasis is still that Ares' mentorship is better. Better is not equal. Even if it's only 12 days - just as Luke only learned from Obi Wan for a couple of days, max - the story is still that Diana got special training from the God (rather than Goddess) of War himself.

Yes, later Diana stands up to him and disobeys his instruction. But, even there, in doing so, she mimics the lesson she learned from him.

To be clear, in no way am I saying that male mentors are inherently bad; but they are disproportionately over-represented in superhero comics/movies.

*Azzarello talked about the Amazons being top warriors, but he did a rather poor job of actually showing it.

The emphasis on all of these points being put there by fans. The way I read the story Diana taught Ares a lesson. I don't see how eliminate male influence betters the female perspective in any way, the absence of something doesn't give you more power it just means you only have one perspective. Diana being able to see that Ares way was wrong was more powerful to me because she made her choice after seeing more than one point of view.

I agree that Azzarello didn't do a good job with the Amazons, but I don't think it was because his story was in some way sexist

[Awonder]

The emphasis on all of these points being put there by fans. The way I read the story Diana taught Ares a lesson. I don't see how eliminate male influence betters the female perspective in any way, the absence of something doesn't give you more power it just means you only have one perspective. Diana being able to see that Ares way was wrong was more powerful to me because she made her choice after seeing more than one point of view.

I agree that Azzarello didn't do a good job with the Amazons, but I don't think it was because his story was in some way sexist

Fans didn't create the story, Azzarello and co did. Acknowledging the emphasis that is there in the story is not the fault of fans, it's the fault of those who made it.

Who said anything about eliminating all male influence? You sure you're not tilting at a strawman there? Wanting a better portrayal of women is not the same as eliminating all male influence. While Azzarello does not eliminate all female influence, he does a big job of reducing and degrading all female influence on Diana while greatly emphasizing the role of men.

Again, Diana only turns against Ares and stands up for a fallen foe after she learned that lesson from him. Diana's defining characteristic of helping enemies is now due primarily to her male mentor.

Any single change and/or poor portrayal of female characters wouldn't be sexist. But add it all up, it's too much to not be sexist. The Azzarello Amazons, in particular, are based on the word of ancient sexist men; regurgitating their old bs today doesn't make it less so.

[Gaelforce]

Okay, guys, this is a thread discussing bad versions of Diana's origin, not yet-another-Azzarello debate which, at this point, has gone far beyond the origin concept.

Please take this to another thread and label it appropriately.

Thank you.

[Carabas]

I really like this one by Warren Ellis and John Cassaday, from Planetary...

Too bad she and her entire culture got killed a few pages later (but then again, the same people who did that also did an alien autopsy on not-Abin Sur and took his ring, and barbequed baby not-Kal-el.

[Carabas]

[numberthirty]

Agreed.

....

[Outside_85]

Are you trying to imply that I'm "completely ignoring Hippoltya's contribution" while quoting me citing Hippolyta's contribution? The "daughter of a god" quote is not mine, it's Azzarello's - are you ignoring that?

I am not implying anything, you are the one that keeps referring to her as Zeus' daughter and keeps confining Diana's childhood with Hippolyta and the Amazons to a void that somehow didn't happen just because there wasn't much of it on the pages and thus ignoring everything that shaped Diana into the person she is now.

And no I am not ignoring it, I just know there is just so much more to it than that single line. And I know it's part of one of the major themes of that run, and because of that, I know that it's actually completely irrelevant when it comes to defining who Diana is.

[Gaelforce]

Once again.

Origin story discussion.

Not Zola discussion. Not Steve discussion. Not Azzarello discussion, though you're free to discuss his origin story for Diana.

What part her secondary characters played or didn't play in the course of the run and why?

Irrelevant to this thread.

[Darrin Kelley]

I'm very happy with The Legend Of Wonder Woman origin. It is very classic and respects the source material. Which makes it all good to me.

[Awonder]

D'oh, I forgot a good one: Smallville!

A young Diana makes a football for Steve to cheer him up and later makes a hang glider to escape the island and search for her missing mother. Definitely worth checking out.

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4418260.html

Good one! I'd read the Elseworld adventures of this WW.

I am not implying anything, you are the one that keeps referring to her as Zeus' daughter and keeps confining Diana's childhood with Hippolyta and the Amazons to a void that somehow didn't happen just because there wasn't much of it on the pages and thus ignoring everything that shaped Diana into the person she is now.

And no I am not ignoring it, I just know there is just so much more to it than that single line. And I know it's part of one of the major themes of that run, and because of that, I know that it's actually completely irrelevant when it comes to defining who Diana is.

This simply isn't true. How can I be "ignoring everything" and "confining Diana's childhood to a void that didn't happen" when I specifically mention that Diana got good genes, good skills training, and even good lessons from her mother and the Amazons? But, like you said, "there wasn't much of it on the pages."

Yeah, the author's own words regarding how he was defining the character he was writing is "irrelevant"?

Once again.

Origin story discussion.

Not Zola discussion. Not Steve discussion. Not Azzarello discussion, though you're free to discuss his origin story for Diana.

What part her secondary characters played or didn't play in the course of the run and why?

Irrelevant to this thread.

I'm afraid I don't understand where you are drawing the line here. Hippolyta and Steve are secondary characters, but (depending on the story), both play key roles in WW's origin, no?

I understand not wanting this thread to devolve into yet another debate on all the merits or demerits of Azzarello's WW run, but it has a big effect on her origin which is the topic of the thread. Changing Artemis from one who spear-headed the creation of the Amazons and blessed baby Diana to an antagonist that needs to be won over is a big change in the WW origin, right?

[Gaelforce]

I understand not wanting this thread to devolve into yet another debate on all the merits or demerits of Azzarello's WW run, but it has a big effect on her origin which is the topic of the thread. Changing Artemis from one who spear-headed the creation of the Amazons and blessed baby Diana to an antagonist that needs to be won over is a big change in the WW origin, right?

It is, indeed, a tangled matter that is difficult for me to draw a line. In the case of recent deletions, it broke down into a debate/discussion over whether or not it was male or female characters who drove Azzarello's storyline. Thought it originally began as a discussion of the origin, it went off into a discussion on Zola's role in Azz's story versus Steve's role in past stories (not the origin)

So yes, Steve as he relates to the origin is fine and dandy. Steve as a character overall and how he compares with other supporting cast members in other writer's stories (not the origin) is getting off topic.

I just don't want a thread that is linked to an article about ten different origin stories devolving into oft-repeated territory solely about Azzarello's run.

Hopefully y'all understand - the topic is not off limits, but I do want to try to keep it from spilling into and/or taking over every thread.

[Awonder]

Gaelforce - thank you for the clarification, and thank you for your wonderful service as mod.

[Bosch]

I think with the Amazons being sort of benevolent and hyper-advanced you run the risk of wandering into Supes territory (and beyond, where it all kind of falls apart), but those pages are stunning. Even just from an art standpoint, I wish more creators would work with the idea that Themyscira might be invisible or exist on a somewhat separate plane.

There are a few not quite Wonder Womans like Moore's Promethea and Image/Awesome's Glory, too, that riff on different elements of Diana's origins, but unfortunately the io9 blogger didn't take those into account.

[Outside_85]

I really like this one by Warren Ellis and John Cassaday, from Planetary...

Too bad she and her entire culture got killed a few pages later (but then again, the same people who did that also did an alien autopsy on not-Abin Sur and took his ring, and barbequed baby not-Kal-el.

Sort of reminds me of Marvel and their parade of WW stand-in's, most notably Power Princess.

[Carabas]

I think with the Amazons being sort of benevolent and hyper-advanced you run the risk of wandering into Supes territory...

Well, that is exactly what Marston had in mind for the character...