Who's your favorite Batman Villain?

[Unfinishedsentenc]

The "Eddie Love", was always there. The late Frank Gorshin was the first to get the ball rolling and in time given his appearances in various other media outlets, the Riddler became iconic. That's why I disagree vehemently with your ideology that the Riddler was perceived to be so much of a joke that he was on par with the likes of Killer Moth and the Cluemaster. When it's always been quite the contrary, neither Killer Moth or the Cluesmaster has ever been on the level of the Riddler. Every time there's a top ten greatest Batman villains of all time list, the Riddler is usually on there and that was before Scott Snyder made him out to be the main villain in Zero Year.

Back on topic, my favorite Batman villain is the Joker.

Okay, well I've just seen sooooooooo many stories and movies and cartoons where they constantly make fun of his gimmick and guys like Warren White and Joker and Two-Face treat him as a joke to the criminal underworld. I can actually give you a list of the stories where that's happened if I look back through my stuff. And nowadays, yes, he's a lot more popular and darker (as literally any villain has the potential to be), and that can be credited to younger generations looking back on stuff like the 60s show, but in my experience, when I was growing up, he might have had a lot of exposure, but he was never taken seriously (except the BTAS version). He might not have been Killer Moth level, I admit, but definitely among the ranks of, say, Mad Hatter and Clayface (both are great in their own right, but all three together can't compete with characters like Joker or Two-Face unless they're made super-dark and fleshed out).

[Unfinishedsentenc]

Why do people like Joker so much? I don't understand. There's no depth to him at all, he's just a psycho. I like my villains with layers and substance.

Joker? No layers or substance? I'm sorry, you must have the wrong person in mind. If not, you need to brush up on some stories.

[batnbreakfast]

I don't get the love for Clayface. Yes, he's almost around since the beginning of the myth and I liked him back in BTAS (when I was a kid) but he's all power no character. That's probably why there have been so many Clayfaces over the years. Not that Killer Moth has depth to him but I still like KM.

E.Nigma is all about the struggle for respect and I can relate to that (even sometimes trying too hard)

Bane is just a brute and brilliant because the writers tell you he is. He's Doomsday in a different coat of paint.

[Carabas]

Poison Ivy, but only when written by Greg Rucka.

Oterwise, Ra's, Catwoman, Two-face.

Joker is my least favourite by a mile from that list. Well, the Ventriloquist is close, and more annoying, but he only gets brought out once in a blue moon instead of every two weeks or so.

[Starchild]

Joker? No layers or substance? I'm sorry, you must have the wrong person in mind. If not, you need to brush up on some stories.

Yeah, I am pretty sure I don't have to brush up on anything. I've been reading Batman for a while and I have seen nothing from Joker to make me think any differently.

[batnbreakfast]

Poison Ivy, but only when written by Greg Rucka.

Oterwise, Ra's, Catwoman, Two-face.

Joker is my least favourite by a mile from that list. Well, the Ventriloquist is close, and more annoying, but he only gets brought out once in a blue moon instead of every two weeks or so.

I feel the same when it comes to Poison Ivy.
The Joker while being often all over the place has a lot of good stories to his name (but I don't like him in Killing Joke or Arkham Asylum)

[Tony Stark]

1.)Joker 2.)Riddler 3.)Bane

[MajorHoy]

Who's your favorite Batman Villain?
Out of all the villains to appear in the comics, who is your favorite villain? You can vote multiple times.

Then shouldn't the thread be

"Who Are Your Favorite Batman Villain(s)"?

("Who's your favorite" would normally mean choose just one.)

[Unfinishedsentenc]

I don't get the love for Clayface. Yes, he's almost around since the beginning of the myth and I liked him back in BTAS (when I was a kid) but he's all power no character. That's probably why there have been so many Clayfaces over the years. Not that Killer Moth has depth to him but I still like KM.

E.Nigma is all about the struggle for respect and I can relate to that (even sometimes trying too hard)

Bane is just a brute and brilliant because the writers tell you he is. He's Doomsday in a different coat of paint.

Honestly, I think any character can be great when put in the hands of a good writer. Favorite Clayface of mine is Basil Karlo, and I've always saw him as someone who yearns for perfection and attention, and would do anything to get it. And since he craves the spotlight, to be the center of the scene, even if he's this horrifying, almost inorganic monster and absolutely ruined externally, as long as he has that spotlight, he's content. That reflects on his past his past as a failing actor too. I think he can challenge Bruce just as psychologically as well as physically, and brings out the desire in all of us to be someone else (and sometimes anyone else rather than yourself). Don't know if he's be written that way, but I believe that you can find personal meaning and emotional weight behind any power or gimmick that may appear on the surface. I'd like to see a story where Clayface has the entire city staring at him, everyone at his utter disposal . . . and he decides to use the opportunity to show them all how good of an actor he is. He isn't happy with himself, is the point. You can find a way to connect to any character I think.

Bane comes from a place of pure hell. When he was a child, he survived that hell by using his wits (evidenced by the "master strategist" title), and then he found venom and used that to overcome any opposition in his life. Soon, he got addicted and became a shell of his former self, at least in some ways. He's about perseverance, but the means he uses to persevere definitely seem to clash with Bruce's. He represents those who are given nothing in life, and then find something to make them better, stronger, but eventually let that very thing that helps them . . . destroy them all over again. He seeks out Batman out of that need, the need to persevere, to succeed in any and all challenges, even when he either doesn't need to or literally can't. Maybe looking back on his life of imprisonment and pain is just too much, so instead he continues to try and conquer everything in the world, so he doesn't have to consider the times where he's lost. As much as he is about masculinity and dominance, he is also just as much about addiction and self-control.

And KM is about desperation. Simply and clearly. Sometimes, the villains don't have to have this tragic backstory or private ideology or philosophy to their actions. Moth to me is just about that yearning for respect and entitlement (hence the fact that he modeled his suit and weapons off of the most popular and well-respected guy in Gotham -- Batman). He would die for a chance to be among the ranks of influential guys like Joker or Penguin and, most importantly . . . he would kill to have that chance as well.

[Unfinishedsentenc]

Yeah, I am pretty sure I don't have to brush up on anything. I've been reading Batman for a while and I have seen nothing from Joker to make me think any differently.

K. It's just that the Killing Joke and Return of the Joker and a lot of other stories have delved into just how f-ed up and scary and traumatized Joker really is, and how he basically believes that at the end of everything, after you've lived your whole life and worked so hard through it all, there's simply darkness and laughter. Like nothing truly matters, at all, so why not just laugh and bring out that darkness in everyone? He believes that smiles are born form tears, essentially, and that Batman is a fraud who continually tries to give meaning to the randomness. He sees Bruce as himself, but a version of himself who's still trying to cling onto the vestige of what used to be, even though Jack Napier and Bruce Wayne both died a long time ago; one in a vat of chemicals, when all he had in the world was completely shattered, and the other in an alleyway, covered in his parents' blood. He says that's why Batman doesn't kill his villains. Because he wants them to live. Because he needs the insanity, the darkness, the senseless violence, to keep on being Batman, to keep on being someone above reality. So in way, Joker and Batman are both broken people. One of them just accepts that brokenness and revels in it, and the other takes it and locks it away and staves it off the best he can.

I don't see how that's not complex and substantial, but maybe that's just me 0.0

[batnbreakfast]

Honestly, I think any character can be great when put in the hands of a good writer. Favorite Clayface of mine is Basil Karlo, and I've always saw him as someone who yearns for perfection and attention, and would do anything to get it. And since he craves the spotlight, to be the center of the scene, even if he's this horrifying, almost inorganic monster and absolutely ruined externally, as long as he has that spotlight, he's content. That reflects on his past his past as a failing actor too. I think he can challenge Bruce just as psychologically as well as physically, and brings out the desire in all of us to be someone else (and sometimes anyone else rather than yourself). Don't know if he's be written that way, but I believe that you can find personal meaning and emotional weight behind any power or gimmick that may appear on the surface. I'd like to see a story where Clayface has the entire city staring at him, everyone at his utter disposal . . . and he decides to use the opportunity to show them all how good of an actor he is. He isn't happy with himself, is the point. You can find a way to connect to any character I think.

Bane comes from a place of pure hell. When he was a child, he survived that hell by using his wits (evidenced by the "master strategist" title), and then he found venom and used that to overcome any opposition in his life. Soon, he got addicted and became a shell of his former self, at least in some ways. He's about perseverance, but the means he uses to persevere definitely seem to clash with Bruce's. He represents those who are given nothing in life, and then find something to make them better, stronger, but eventually let that very thing that helps them . . . destroy them all over again. He seeks out Batman out of that need, the need to persevere, to succeed in any and all challenges, even when he either doesn't need to or literally can't. Maybe looking back on his life of imprisonment and pain is just too much, so instead he continues to try and conquer everything in the world, so he doesn't have to consider the times where he's lost. As much as he is about masculinity and dominance, he is also just as much about addiction and self-control.

And KM is about desperation. Simply and clearly. Sometimes, the villains don't have to have this tragic backstory or private ideology or philosophy to their actions. Moth to me is just about that yearning for respect and entitlement (hence the fact that he modeled his suit and weapons off of the most popular and well-respected guy in Gotham -- Batman). He would die for a chance to be among the ranks of influential guys like Joker or Penguin and, most importantly . . . he would kill to have that chance as well.

I've enjoyed your posts about Clay and Bane more than any story with them in the past few years. I never said there's no potential for them just they haven't been written well in a long time and on top of that they don't have some of the classics going for them like let's say Joker or Two-Face. At this point I'd rather have some fresh faces around than them being recurring members of the rogues gallery (btw I would have liked Nolan's Bane without the strange accent or the endless monologuing)

[Nero]

Okay, well I've just seen sooooooooo many stories and movies and cartoons where they constantly make fun of his gimmick and guys like Warren White and Joker and Two-Face treat him as a joke to the criminal underworld. I can actually give you a list of the stories where that's happened if I look back through my stuff. And nowadays, yes, he's a lot more popular and darker (as literally any villain has the potential to be), and that can be credited to younger generations looking back on stuff like the 60s show, but in my experience, when I was growing up, he might have had a lot of exposure, but he was never taken seriously (except the BTAS version). He might not have been Killer Moth level, I admit, but definitely among the ranks of, say, Mad Hatter and Clayface (both are great in their own right, but all three together can't compete with characters like Joker or Two-Face unless they're made super-dark and fleshed out).

I can save you the trouble of providing me with the list, I've seen the writers undervalue the Riddler before. I never said the Riddler was regarded on the level as the Joker or Ra's Al Ghul or even Two-Face. But despite some writers dismissing his potential, he's still on a higher level than the Mad Hatter or Clayface and especially the Great White Shark (who wouldn't make it on a top thirty Batman greatest villains list for that matter). I would say the one villain the Riddler has the most in common with is the Penguin. Like the Riddler, the Penguin is a classic, iconic Batman villain but has been the recipient of being undervalued by the writers at times because of his shtick.

[LoneNecromancer]

I would say the one villain the Riddler has the most in common with is the Penguin. Like the Riddler, the Penguin is a classic, iconic Batman villain but has been the recipient of being undervalued by the writers at times because of his shtick.

I suspect the reason for this is because neither of them can actually be much of a physical threat to Batman, hence they tend to get written as being treated like the butt of the joke by Batman or even other villains. Even Joker shoots guns and waves knives around and gets his hands dirty, whilst Riddler using his cane or Penguin shooting someone with his umbrella-gun doesn't quite have the same impact.

[Osiris-Rex]

Catwoman. Almost every story is better with her in it.

[Flash Gordon]

The Riddler. I always saw the potential for him to be the Moriarty to Bruce's Sherlock and Dick's Watson.

I adore Catwoman, but I don't consider her an outright villain.